Multiple Video Cards Question

[ddimm]

Hello - I am currently using an NVIDIA 6800GS AGP card with 2 video outs on FS9. When I enable dual monitor and undock my instruments to the second panel the frame rate drops significantly. I am considering a second video card in an open PCI slot. Can anyone suggest if this will resolve my issue and recommend an NVIDIA PCI card. Does anyone use GA Panels or have a better way? Thanks in advance.

[Michael Carter]

Same thing happened to me. I used to undock the radio stack and move it to another monitor...goodbye frame rate.

Hope some will jump in here to answer your question.

[Kennair]

Hi ddimm,

No the second video card won't really solve your frame rate problem, that's mainly down to your CPU power. Yes undocking windows will lower frame rates, but fine tuning your system can alleviate a lot of this (but not all). I have a fairly low end system by todays standards running an nvidia 6600 256MB AGP along with a 6200 128MB PCI card in order to run two monitors for panels and a Triple Head 2 Go with 3 monitors for outside view. I run the TH2GO out of the AGP card and the two monitors from the PCI. I can get 20 FPS in the air and 10's in detail scenery with 3 windows undocked.

If you're looking for a PCI card, the 6200 is the fastest they made before going AGP, but it doesn't really matter as all the processing is done via your main card, the second one simply hangs off it to give extra video outputs.

If you want to fine tune your system for better frame rates follow these instructions on Avsim. http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=197&topic_id=25&mesg_id=25&page=

Good luck,

Ken.

[ddimm]

Thanks - I'll give the tweaks a try this evening. My hardware is BFG 6800 GS AGP, 1.5Gig,AMD processor. Is it worth while to set up a second pc and use GA Panels or something similar on a network? On a side note I am happy to say I ended up going back to FS9 (+++ addons) after months of frustrations with FSX not performing and really giving me only marginal improvements on my current hardware.

[Kennair]

Yes you will definitely get lower frame rates on your system, but you will also benefit greatly from the tweaks. My system is slightly faster than yours at 2Ghz and suffers still. Most certainly FSX will be little more than a slideshow on your system with those specs. You will also benefit from 2Gb of RAM.

As for network panels, you can go down that road and it should take some of the load off your FS PC, however at a cost. Extra PC's for a start and then the software can range from free (FreeFD) to slightly expensive (FSExpand) thru to Project Magenta which will cost you a lot more. I don't have any experience with these but many others here have.

I would look at a PC upgrade in preference and utilize the MS FS panels out of the box. With a good system of today FS9 will fly, in more ways than one, with multi screens and maxed scenery.

Ken.

[ddimm]

Thank you - the tweaks helped. It looks like a 15-20% over all gain without any loss of visual quality. I assume my pc is more CPU bound than graphics bound b/c the traffic slider has the most negative framerate impact. I think I will get an NVIDIA 5200 or 6200 PCI and try running my instruments on it. I can always use the card with the next rig....

[Kennair]

That's great and a very typical increase with those tweaks. No it's not your PC that's CPU bound it's flight sim itself. It is very CPU intensive, which means that fast and big video cards aren't necessarily essential. And yes traffic is a big framerate killer. On your system I would try and live without it, but if you want it on, go for no more than about 5-10%.

The next big tip is to get yourself a good payware defrag program. I use Ultimate Defrag but there are others such as O&O defrag. However I believe Ultimate Defrag is the only one that will let you place certain programs on the outer edge of your disc, which makes them run much faster. However I'm not sure if it is the only one. One thing is for sure, it will also increase your framerates by about 20%, almost guaranteed!

Have fun,

Ken.

[ddimm]

The results with the Nvidia FX5200 PCI card looks promising. Installation and configuration was very easy since both cards are Nvidia based. I am able to maintain 21 fps with the traffic reduced to 25%. I also used a demo copy of Ultimate Defrag and moved all the FS9 files to the outside of the disk platters for better I/O performance. I will return the FX5200 to the computer store and purchase a 6200 version that has 2 video outputs and more memory. I believe there is still a lot of life left in my current rig and FS9...

[ddimm]

Just a quick follow up. I installed the eVGA 6200 PCI and had many problems with screen locking and the dreaded Blue Screen of Death. I found several posts pointing to some driver related issues and decided to go back to the FX 5200 PCI. I am not sure if it was related to the combination of the 6800 GS AGP, 6200 PCI and the latest nVidia drivers. I guess I will settle for a single display output for now and get back to enjoying my flight simming.....

[Kennair]

Hmmmm! I've certainly not experienced any problems with my config using very similar hardware. However we all know the nature of windows and combinations of programs working on a PC. Often if a video driver is suspected, rolling back to a previous version can fix the problem. Basically you should be able to run the two cards as expected, the fact that it causes problems more likely points to incompatibilities with other software. Finding it is the issue! Could be an IRQ conflict? But if it's adversely effecting your simming, give it a miss.

Good luck,

Ken.

[andarlite]

Hi ddimm,

I have a fairly low end system by todays standards running an nvidia 6600 256MB AGP along with a 6200 128MB PCI card in order to run two monitors for panels and a Triple Head 2 Go with 3 monitors for outside view. I run the TH2GO out of the AGP card and the two monitors from the PCI.



This is exactly what I want to do. I currently have a PCI-E GeForce 7900GS with dual monitors. Currently one is for the outside view and will soon be connected to a Triplehead2go with eventually 3 monitors. I'm using the other video card output to display panel information.... but as I progress with my cockpit construction, it is obvious that I need to add another monitor for the panel display.

I started searching the internet for a PCI video card when it suddenly dawn on me that my motherboard (Asus P5LD2-VM) has on-board VGA. Well, wouldn't you know it, I couldn't get it to work. :( I played around with the BIOS (not a heck of a lot of choices to make here in regards to the video) and only one of the video source is recognized by Win XP, but not both. So, am I resigned to having to purchased a PCI video card?

Regards,
Henry

[Kennair]

Yes, you can use either the onboard video or an external card but not both (unless you have a motherboard that can achieve both, which I don't). Just pick up any old PCI video card. I don't think memory capacity is all that important as your main card does all the work. Your 7900 should handle this with no problem at all.

Ken.

[AndyT]

Once the DX10 patch comes out for Vista, THEN more than 1 video card will begin to make a difference. DX10 removes much of the graphic work from the CPU and places it on the Video processor (GPU). Once these 2 things are in place and working correctly, SLI and Crossfire will begin to have serious impact on frame rates. Until then, The most memory you can get on the fastest card your machine will handle is the best you can hope for.

Other than that, Try moving some of the visuals to another computer. I'm not sure but I think WideFS will do that for you. Even an old PC sitting doing nothing will help remove some of the load from your main FS PC.

[Kennair]

No I'm sorry Andy but WideFS won't shift FS visuals to another PC, you need Wideview for that (along with a complete mirror copy of FS on the second PC). WideFS allows specifically designed addons like Active Sky and Radar Contact to talk to the main FS PC from another networked PC in order to inject weather or ATC. I sincerely wish it was as easy as adding WideFS to take the load off! You need additional panel software like PM or FSExpand to run separate panels. Then you can devote your main PC to scenery only.

But I'm very interested in your comments about DX10. I didn't really understand what impact besides better visuals that it might offer. Certainly offering the advantage of full SLI/Crossfire access will be a big boon. I'm currently in the market for a new setup and this will influence my MB and GPU decisions markedly.

Ken.

[AndyT]

WideView. Thats the one I was thinking of, Thanks.

Since the DX10 feature set kept changing, its very difficult to say just how much impact it will really have. However, it is supposed to have as one of its core features the ability to route much of the graphics processing from the CPU to the GPU. FSX is very CPU bound because of the rendering of the visuals. DX10 SO FAR promises to remedy much of this by making SLI and Crossfire actually worth having. Once the graphics are actually routed to the vid card, the CPU will be freed up to do other things. At that point a multi card video solution will be the way to go. This will require Vista to run properly since XP simply does not have the internal handles to run DX10 in anything other than emulation mode for development purposes. Add to that a multi-core machine, and you can cut the server farm in half! (Hopefully!)

[Kennair]

Great. I'm currently tossing up between a P5N-E and a P5N32-E motherboard, but if they are going to make the most of SLI, then the 32 will have an advantage I would think.

Ken.

[AndyT]

The DX10 patch is supposed to be out this year. I'd wait for it if I were you.