Starting Over

[andarlite]

Well, no thanks to this website :) and seeing pictures of all your cockpits, I took apart most of my cockpit last night and am mostly starting over again.

Originally when I started all this, I didn't know what I was doing and my idea was just to have a half cockpit with a 22 inch widescreen LCD for the scenery, a 17 inch LCD to display the cockpit panel (Level D 767), some homemade panels built around the 17 inch with switches and some Go-Flight modules.

I started thinking about this several weeks ago but one of the big problems I had was that even if I wanted to build something more realistic looking, I didn't know how to separate the guages, HSI, EICAS, etc to display across several monitors. Someone from another forum showed me how to do it and after a couple of hours on it last weekend, I had it. Now all I have to do is build a new MIP panel around it. That meant a new structure to hold an extra LCD monitor. Then I decided that if I have to do all that work then I might as well build a full cockpit. It's interesting how many people want to fly it when they are visiting so it now makes sense to have a full cockpit. Now mind you, it's not going to be anywhere near 100% realistic, but it'll be as good as it can be for my limited budget, space and building skills.

This past Sunday after church service, I met two of my nieces and nephews (both 11 years old) playing outside and they asked me if my cockpit was finished yet. I told them I was going to take it apart and re-do it to make it more realistic. They both expressed surprise and said "but Uncle Henry, we think it's already very realistic":o. These two are definitely at the head of the line to fly in the new cockpit.

Regards,
Henry

[Trevor Hale]

LOl Henry,

I can tell you from personal experience that this will not be the first nor the last time that you pull it apart. Sorry to break it to ya, but every time we rebuild, our cockpits becomes better and better.

You will not regret the rebuild, I can guarantee it.

Good luck, and keep us posted with your new pictures.

Best regards,

Trev

[Bob Reed]

As Trevor has said.. This is an on going thing. I am on rebuild number 4 and every time it gets better. As far as realistic goes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder! We all have to make concessions in this deal or none of us would have a cockpit. It is what you are willing to live with to having a working cockpit. Keep that in mind after all it is all about flying the thing!!

[Kennair]

LOL, Good on you Henry,

Glad to see another builder rebuilding, just made a similar decision myself. I wonder if Mr Boeing went through this?

Ken.

[Westozy]

I'll be rebuilding my TQ does that count?

Gwyn

[Tomlin]

Uncle Henry, you sound like you may have a crew to train before very long. I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Everyone in this post is pretty much guaranteeing me that I too will rebuild one day! Boy, oh boy. I hope I can get it very close to 'right' the first time myself, but I have been warned!

[Michael Carter]

I sure don't plan on a re-build any time soon. But I've done a lot of things with this sim I didn't plan on doing, so who knows.

[Bob Reed]

I don't know BSW you have already rebuilt your MIP once. You started out building your own and then went with the real thing, I would call that a rebuild.:D

[Michael Carter]

Well, that didn't get past the full-size prototype panel. I'd consider it more of a 'trial-run' than a rebuild.

After realizing how many holes precisely positioned that I had to cut, I shelved the idea all together.

[andarlite]

Hey Trevor

I just saw the new pictures you posted of your mip with the trial placement of switches and such. What kind of material is that? Could just be the lighting, but it sure looks like it could be the right brownish color for my 767.

Regards,
Henry

[Trevor Hale]

ROFL..

I need to paint it Black, but it is 1/4" MDF/Hardboard

I was trial testing the positions of my panels, before I add the Plexi glass to all of them and drill for the switches.

Lighting was crappy, I took the photo's last night, Stuff all over the Living room, My wife was not impressed.. LMAO..

It would be a perfect color for the 777 indeed.

Trev

[gokhotit]

Ah the ever blessing (or cursed) rebuild. I am on rebuild (and re-design) number 3 of THE SIM CONSOLE. Started out with just a little storage box that sat ontop of my monitor, moved up to building out of a full tower case, and now I use the Go-FLIGHT console as a base. I may, however, one day have to give up on the whole "console" idea and work on a pit of some kind, due to the fact that I am getting a whole bunch of external "doo-hickeys and thing-a-mabobs" that hook into it, more cables going everywhere, that generally knot up around my rudder pedals. My only constraint is the same as everyone elses here: money, and the wife.

[Michael Carter]

Ah the ever blessing (or cursed) rebuild. I am on rebuild (and re-design) number 3 of THE SIM CONSOLE. Started out with just a little storage box that sat ontop of my monitor, moved up to building out of a full tower case, and now I use the Go-FLIGHT console as a base. I may, however, one day have to give up on the whole "console" idea and work on a pit of some kind, due to the fact that I am getting a whole bunch of external "doo-hickeys and thing-a-mabobs" that hook into it, more cables going everywhere, that generally knot up around my rudder pedals. My only constraint is the same as everyone elses here: money, and the wife.

Wiring and cabling can become a nightmare in short order if planning isn't taken into consideration. It's always a good idea to write down the wiring diagram of your components for the sim.

[gokhotit]

So true..I do write down how it wired together, but everything ties into my console, so I have all the connecting cables going everywhere.

[mauriceb]

There is one more option Henry. Scrap the whole thing and forget about this madness before it's too late for you :p. Even now, that thought still comes to my head every now & then when the going gets tough and when I think about what is yet to come (work & expenses).

I'm pretty sure I would have quit by now if I didn't think of all the hassles to get rid of this monstrosity and to at least re-coup most of my costs. Not counting proving to my wife that she was right all along and that this was a crazy enterprise to start with. Why oh why did I ever get afflicted with this love for aviation?? :roll::roll:

Maurice

[andarlite]

Maurice, I sure thought about scrapping it this weekend.... wasted the whole weekend trying to do something that should be simple.... attaching the glareshield to the MIP frame.....arrrrrgg....... just seems so unstable.... but I thought of a bright idea this morning so have to try it tonight.

I'm building the cockpit in our family room (playroom) and since I'm in effect doubling the size of the cockpit, I announced to my wife that the sofa and coffee table must go..... she pointed out that if I were to get rid of my model train layout (9 ft x 4 ft and hasn't been touched in over 6 months because of the cockpit project) that there would also be plenty of space..... anyway, the good news is that she finally agreed :D......sheesh, can you imagine thinking that the sofa and coffee table is more important than a train layout (or a cockpit)?

Regards,
Henry

[Tomlin]

Henry,

I too used to be a model railroader. Great hobby there- I cannot believe how expensive THAT hobby has become. I discovered Train Simulator by Auranz a few years ago- I think I liked that a bit better 'cause you could build a layout as big as anything, and then get in the train and go somewhere, kind of like RC aircraft vs. Flight Sim. At least in flight sim, you can 'go somewhere' instead of in circles. Of course, I cant resist going into a model RR shop now and again just to see how far the hobby has come since I left it probably 20 years ago.

At any rate, sounds like a good time to rebuild (AKA downsize) the model railroad or get rid of it all together for the 'pit! :-()

[andarlite]

Eric

Boy, you're not kidding, model railroading is extremely expensive...especially N-scale. My layout is modelled after the rail yard of my home town .... a lot of fond childhood memories there (so I could never bear to tear it apart). I only started 3 years ago so I think I got into it when it was already at the expensive stage. We won't even go into the part where I got my son some Lionel stuff......now that's EXPENSIVE.

Now look what you've done, I think I'm going to fire up the train tonight instead of the cockpit. :D

If I had the money that I sunk into that hobby right now, let me tell you I would be quickly driving over to Flight Deck Solutions (I just found out that they're located up the road from where I work).

Regards,
Henry

[andarlite]

So here's where I've gotten to since I announced that I was starting over:


http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd11/andarlite/100_1017.jpg

My new full size pedestal:

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd11/andarlite/100_1018.jpg

That's my old pedestal in front of the FO side:

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd11/andarlite/100_1021.jpg

My next big step is to make the MIP panel, then the rest of the panels for the pedestal, an enclosure for my CH Products throttle quandrant to look more 767-ish, glare screen, overhead, FMS, etc etc etc (will it ever end?).

My MCP consists of a Goflight RP48 and a few toggle switches and pushbuttons.... for the moment.... but it works well. This wouldn't have been possible without a great program that Bert de Keizer wrote to interface Goflight modules with the Level D 767. I also have a couple of other Goflight modules (GF-166 radio's and remote RP-48's).

The overhead structure (and front windshield) was just whack together and just temporary.

Well, gotta get back to it.

Regards,
Henry

[Michael Carter]

That really some cool stuff Henry. I didn't realize the newer airliners used such an angle on the MIP. I see so few from that perspective I never realized this.

The 727 MIP is only 12 degrees from vertical.

Can't wait to see it with he MIP in place. Keep up the great work.

[Michael Carter]

Henry,

I too used to be a model railroader. Great hobby there- I cannot believe how expensive THAT hobby has become. I discovered Train Simulator by Auranz a few years ago- I think I liked that a bit better 'cause you could build a layout as big as anything, and then get in the train and go somewhere, kind of like RC aircraft vs. Flight Sim. At least in flight sim, you can 'go somewhere' instead of in circles. Of course, I cant resist going into a model RR shop now and again just to see how far the hobby has come since I left it probably 20 years ago.

At any rate, sounds like a good time to rebuild (AKA downsize) the model railroad or get rid of it all together for the 'pit! :-()

I was into that too over 20 years ago. I sure do miss it, but I'm so far behind I wouldn't know where to start up again. I hear they have computers controlling trains now.

I had a 5x9 layout, all flat bed with a max of two train running with no switching needed. It sure was a lot of fun back then.

I may get back into it after I retire. The 727 takes all of my time, money, and passion now.

[andarlite]

That really some cool stuff Henry. I didn't realize the newer airliners used such an angle on the MIP. I see so few from that perspective I never realized this.

The 727 MIP is only 12 degrees from vertical.

Can't wait to see it with he MIP in place. Keep up the great work.

Thanks Mike.

Unless I have my information wrong, the angle of the 767 MIP is 18 degrees from vertical. The good thing is that my MIP mount can easily be adjusted if I'm wrong.

Regards,
Henry

[andarlite]

Hi All

Just scored myself a Triplehead2go (digital version) from ebay :D. With the great deal that I got and the fact that the CDN $ is now stronger than the U.S. $ and since I don't have to pay certain taxes, saved myself a bundle compared if I had purchased it locally.

I guess the next purchase is going to be another 22 inch LCD.

Regards,
Henry

[Tomlin]

Congrats Henry!

[andarlite]

Here's a couple of updated photo's.

Some more work completed on the pedestal and throttle:

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd11/andarlite/100_1027.jpg

Here's one with new TH2G and 2 22" LCD's:

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd11/andarlite/100_1030.jpg


Regards,
Henry

[David Rogers]

I feel sick with jealousy at those displays!

I use TH2GO with 3 x 19" regular 4:3s and that is pretty awesome but those 22 inchers are just the business!

Duly added to Phase 3 of my project objectives :)

[andarlite]

1. Bid and won Hagstrom KE72 and 2 breakout box on Ebay (Friday). :D
2. Arrives on Monday from Hong Kong (wow, talk about fast shipping).
3. No software or cables included.
4. e-Mail with seller and Hagstrom about missing software.
5. Procrastinate on buying cables.
6. Thursday, get e-mail from both seller and Hagstrom with software (2 versions, one is for XP)
7. Friday, on way to work, stop off and purchase male-male PS2 cable.
8. In evening, attempt to plug in PS2 cable..... arrrrg, got a male-female by mistake. :oops:
9. Saturday morning, go to computer store and purchase male-male PS2 cable, this time making sure it is male-male.
10. Get home, plug everything in, and the main keyboard still works.
11. Connect switch to breakout box, program it as Parking Brake, run KE72load.exe for XP, and get asked for which COM port to use. What the, I thought it was suppose to load macro throught PS2 port????
12. Google and find out that XP blocks keyboard port which explains why there is a version of software for XP that uses COM port.
13. Search house for serial cable...... no luck, quit for the night in disgust. :mad:
14. Sunday :idea:, suddenly remember wife's computer has Win 2000..... connect everything up to her computer, run other version of KE72load.exe (in DOS window). Get message that 'Can't find KE72".
15. Google and find out that must boot into DOS, cannot run from DOS window.
16. Search house for old DOS floppy.... success this time.
17. Run back to computer.....arrrrg, there's no floppy drive. Quit for the night in disgust. :mad:
18. Monday morning, check computer and KE72 and determine male-male 9 pin serial cable is needed.
19. Ask wife to pick up serial cable.
20. In evening, attempt to plug in serial cable.....arrrrrg, the computer needs female connector (duh!!!!). :oops:
21. Run out to nearby Staples and pay double the price of what computer store would charge for 9 pin male-female serial cable.
22. Get home, plug everying in and run KE72load.exe and SUCCESS, macro loads.
23. Pull on parking brake switch, nothing happens......... oops, wire came loose during back and forth to wife's computer.
24. Connect wire and push on parking brake switch, nothing happens....... oops, connected wire to IN09 instead of IN01.
25. Connect to IN01. Pull on parking brake switch, SUCCESS. :D
26. Decide to celebrate by doing a flight, ........hmmmm, let's see why BSW is always flying to LOWI, set up IFR flight to go to LOWI from LOWW.... WOW, what beautiful scenery and what a challenging landing..... I love it.

Regards,
Henry

[mlscotti]

Ok.. time to ask one of many questions. How do you separate the MIP controls on separate screens, from the view monitor, as i have seen on multiple cockpits. I realize Project Magenta provides a glass cockpit, but that's a bit expensive for me right now. Is there any other way?

[David Rogers]

There aren't many solutions for that right now. (That's why they're so expensive!)

Options are:-

- Project Magenta (Boing and Airbus)....
- AST (www.airsimtech.com (http://www.airsimtech.com)) (Airbus only)
- FSexpand (a lot cheaper but based on standard FS commands (so things like only V/S on the autopilot :( ).

Other option is to use a single powerful PC, and utilize as many monitors as possible (things like Triplehead2go, which gives 3 monitor outputs from a single video output).

:)

[Michael Carter]

Glad you had a good flight to Innsbruck. Did you use the SBG2A?

I fly that route for Austrian as a codeshare so often I have the procedure (headings, altitudes, frequencies) memorized.

Try the KPT1Z Special Performance departure from 08 if you are feeling especially confident. Max speed 154 KIAS, 25 degrees of bank required until at least INN, and then up to 250KIAS.

No using the FMC! :D

[andarlite]

I don't have any charts of LOWI or the area yet. Just been flying with the FS9 ATC. I did try requesting a different approach and SBG2A was one of the selections. Funny thing is that of the 5-6 flights I tried, I only once was told to land on 26..... most of the time I'm told to circle and land on 8L... why is that?

I really should get charts for this area.

BTW, I don't use the FMC much, mainly because I'm in cockpit building mode and as a result I don't fly much yet.... and when I do I just want to do a quick flight (mainly to keep my landing skills up). I usually like to do Buffalo to Toronto or CYTS to CYYU (where I grew up). Try putting your 727 down at CYYU and see if you can take off again..... I can just barely do it with the 767 but I have to use full flaps and the belly usually needs a fresh coat of paint again. :D

Regards,
Henry

[Michael Carter]

It that is FSATC, I don't know. The approach to 26 is safer than to 08, but I've had to do the circle-to-land to 08 under IVAO ATC several times if the wind is from the east.

The wind at Innsbruck is largely unpredictable and can shift rapidly from one direction to the other in a very short time.