Insane builders

[mauriceb]

What is it about flight simulation that makes normally sane grown-ups become total lunatics? Why does an otherwise healthy mature male become obsessed about the exact color match for the knobs on the fire control panel or the seat adjustment knob or any other part of the flight deck for that matter? Why does anyone worry about the exact travel distance of the rudder pedals or the exact force required to push on the pedals.

I can already hear the screams of protest from many of you who will insist that this is totally worthwhile and necessary for your flying enjoyment. I say balderdash to that. The many of you who are obsessed with these microscopic details are simply deluding yourselves into believing this is necessary in order to achieve total realism in your sims.

Pardon me boys, but this is total nonsense. As long as the call button does not materialize a real flight attendant (& not your wife/girlfriend in a flight attendant suit), then you have nothing real in your sims. As long as the fire department does not come knocking at your doors when you have an engine fire, nothing is real in your sim. As long as your sim is physically intact after any of your many 'hard' landings/crashes, nothing is real in your sim.

This is just a make believe world that you have surrounded yourself with and if you can make yourself believe you are flying a real plane, then you can also make yourself believe the same thing even if you did not get the exact colour match for the seat fabric that only your rear ends or rather the pants over your rear-ends can see & feel when flying anyway.

I must confess though of having been affected with this insanity as well. I don't know how much time I wasted trying to get the same curve on the parking brake handle in my throttle assembly as what I could see in the pictures. As if that mattered when a straight piece of metal actuating a switch would have served the same function perfectly well.

I am writing this because I am now in the final stages of building rudder pedals assemblies. I thought that getting real pedals that had actually been stepped on by real pilots (wow!!!!) was the thing to do :roll:. Little did I know that this complicated my life immeasurably as I had to make that work with my homemade linkages instead of starting from scratch, which in hindsight would have been a lot easier.

I'm also writing this to pass the time faster at work so that I can get back home & continue countersinking holes in remote locations which will never be seen by anyone. Pity! :roll:

I would be willing to pay big bucks if someone came up with an antidote for this madness/stupidity. As I said, I can hear the screams of protest from all the purists out there, but I still maintain this is insanity and I know that most wives out there would agree with my assessment.

Sleepless (& insane) in Holland Landing,
Maurice

[Michael Carter]

Building a "as close to exact" simulator as is possible is as much fun as the flying for me. And it's not always the 'exact' results that count, but the challenge of trying whether it turns out to be an exact replica or not.

Others are not that obsessed with accuracy or even authenticity. But I'd like it as real as my skills, space, and money will allow me to build it.

That's not always the end result, but the challenge of doing so.

[Trevor Hale]

I'm also writing this to pass the time faster at work so that I can get back home & continue countersinking holes in remote locations which will never be seen by anyone. Pity! :roll:

LMAO, I am doing the same thing.. Why is it that work has to get in the way of our simulator building.. ROFL


I would be willing to pay big bucks if someone came up with an antidote for this madness/stupidity.

There is one.. LOL it's called Divorce, it sucks all our money away so we can't build a sim. Although, do you know why divorce is so expensive??? Because it's worth it!! ROFL


As I said, I can hear the screams of protest from all the purists out there, but I still maintain this is insanity and I know that most wives out there would agree with my assessment.

Sleepless (& insane) in Holland Landing,
Maurice

This last part is the real truth, We keep dreaming about solving our simulator problems, while our wives are dreaming about when the kitchen cupboards will stop falling off..

Well put, Maurice. Well Put!

[David Rogers]

Interesting post but I think a little harsh at times; there is still a whole lot of realism that can be experienced and enjoyed, even while we don't have things like "real life air hostesses". I am not a purist - I am building a home cockpit based on a 737NG but that will be used to fly 737, 767 and A320 models. Therefore, there are many areas in my build that are not exact replicas of a NG flight deck. But even speaking of the real purists, I still don't think they are as deluded and senseless as suggested above - I just think we have an interesting hobby that does concern fine detail, and a great deal of fascinating problem solving and developing solutions! When I see someone who has developed a component that looks identical to a real world part, I don't think "what a deluded idiot", I just hugely respect the talent and determination that the builder had to reach such a level of similarity between their home-produced component and the real one. Brian's Airbus is a great example of this - it's phenomenal what he has achieved for the A340, without 'off the shelf' parts.

Just as BSW said, for me, cockpit building is a hobby in itself, sometimes quite apart form Flight Sim because as much enjoyment can be obtained from the building as from the flying. It's this that (I believe) drives some of us to spend weeks developing an exact replica component - not that we believe it will add huge realism advances to our overall set-up.

[mauriceb]

Building a "as close to exact" simulator as is possible is as much fun as the flying for me. And it's not always the 'exact' results that count, but the challenge of trying whether it turns out to be an exact replica or not.

Others are not that obsessed with accuracy or even authenticity. But I'd like it as real as my skills, space, and money will allow me to build it.

That's not always the end result, but the challenge of doing so.

I wasn't talking about 'builders' who like to fly now & then. I was talking about people whose primary love & purpose is to simulate real flying (that includes me) but who get sucked in into this accurate building frenzy. I personally couldn't care less about the building part and I wish I could pay someone to build it for me, but I still spend way too much time on what I think are totally unimportant details for my purpose, which is to fly. That's why I called this insanity :)

Maurice

[Tomlin]

I agree with everything that all three of you said above, (well, maybe not the divorce part cause all is well in that department) but it IS craziness sometimes the length and aggravation we go to make these machines work the way they do in real life (and we still fall short in some area).

Maurice, Im glad you bought those rudder pedals buddy, 'cause I now have an interface for my sim! LOL! But, yeah, I will state one more time- I initially switched aircraft so that I could 'let go' of some of the obsesive ideas I had for the 737 project and it's been a real blessing believe it or not.

I have to admit- I spend WAY too much time thinking about all this stuff. Im guessing though that one day, that will change.

I do have one concern- I love flying, but Ive really enjoyed the building too. I often wonder if once it's built if I will enjoy it as much as I do now, planning how Im going to tackle the next challenge. Once the building's done, it's just flying and maintenance.

A funny story- A good friend and myself used to own a small recording studio in Florida, and sometimes at night we would leave the apartment that we shared and would go down to the studio, JUST TO RE-WIRE IT ALL FOR FUN!

How insane is that?

[mauriceb]

I just hugely respect the talent and determination that the builder had to reach such a level of similarity between their home-produced component and the real one.


So do I. I think the achievements that I see every day in this forum are phenomenal. But my point will always be that there is something particular to flight simulation that makes you switch the way you see & do things. I don't like the building part at all. Yes, I love the results at the end, but I would love it even more if someone did it for me so that I could spend my time flying instead of worrying about minutia.

I have spent almost 2 months now with those damn rudder pedals instead of doing any flying and I'm getting serious withdrawal symptoms. This would not happen if I worried less about accuracy of reproduction when the only thing I really like is the flying part. This is madness to me but I do recognize that it is heaven for others if pure flying is not the ultimate goal.

And I wasn't trying to be 'harsh'. I think all the people involved in this hobby are great people for which I have tremendous respect. I was mostly kicking myself and taking cheap shots at others just for my amusement (call me immature if you wish but never harsh) :D

Maurice

[Trevor Hale]

LMAO Mau,

I knew what you were getting at. It was a good laugh for a Thursday Morning. I applaud your accuracy in depicting us insane enthusiests.

Because that is what we all are. If we wern't then why would we be here. :)

Great writings.

[JBaymore]

I often wonder if once it's built if I will enjoy it as much as I do now, planning how Im going to tackle the next challenge. Once the building's done, it's just flying and maintenance.

Eric,

Ah....but that is the point ..... it will NEVER actually be "done". Because you will always see "just one more little detail" that can be done or improved.

There is NO recovery from this insanity..... it is a terminal affliction. ;)

best,

................john

[Tomlin]

Eric,

Ah....but that is the point ..... it will NEVER actually be "done". Because you will always see "just one more little detail" that can be done or improved.

There is NO recovery from this insanity..... it is a terminal affliction. ;)

best,

................john

Well, if you just knew how many times I woke up this morning still running thru my head how Im going to build the MIP stand over the next few days when I get some serious shop time under my belt...

Insanity reigns in the sim building world!

[NicD]

Yeah Maurice... I hate building too, although I have got some enjoyment from it, every now-and-then. There is just soooooooo much of it!!!

Pulled the MIP apart yesterday to finally tackle all the switch, led and backlight wiring on it... and I got to thinking... all the people who will use this and NEVER see/know what goes into making it work... makes me envious in a lunatic sort of way. And if I look at it too much I start wondering ... sheesh .. how DOES all this stuff work anyway ! :eek:

So to all you new guys... if you have done your planning and have an estimate of the time and money you'll spend..... triple it... multiple by your age.... divide by number of crew seats ... add the value of your mortgage ... and subtract the distance to your local hardware store. Should be fairly accurate then. :p

So when are you coming over Maurice ?... I've got 4 boeing rudder pedals just waiting for you.... :D ... and I can't bear to look at them.

[Westozy]

Maurice, I totally agree with your theories! From an engineering point of view I see no value in replicating the last dzus fastener or using laser technology to match paint samples. We are all building huge joysticks to operate a simple flight simulator program which has hardly enough interface capabilities. I work on the "85%" is good enough theory and have always focussed on practicallity of each part I make. For instance I have buttons on my MIP that bring up FS windows, 12v lighting, etc. Things that the real plane doesn't have. I built my frame/seating/MIP position to be ergonomically comfortable and frequently fall asleep in it so I will call that design a win. My NG is built how Boeing should have done it! (My own arrogant joke, I call it the NG+!). In reality 99% of people are not obsessed with aviation like us and when I get 'normal' people visiting my sim, they are all blown away, they would not know what a real NG cockpit looks like. I have 3 airline captains who visit and 2 are NG jocks, they love it and have never complained. One of them did advise me that my rudder trim knob was faulty, but then again knobs attached to 1/4" bolts don't generally do much anyway. I was stoked that he tried to operate it after a simulated engine fail!

I really do admire the dedication of those builders who have to have everything perfect because they are right up against it will have the most problems along their path. Dedication to a task like that and is a huge commitment and at the end of the day, who pats them on the back? Not the missus I bet! I'll just get back to the TQ production line and plans for my second simulator, maybe an 85% accurate A320, don't tell the missus. There's money to be made in this game and growing kids to feed, she really likes that part of my FS obsession...my $58 worth!!!

Gwyn

PS My Nangchang combat fighter ride story should be in November's CP mag...

[Tomlin]

Gwyn,

Your reply was refreshing. I spent some time in my friend's shop tongiht and Im now beat. I thougt I was going to get away with using 1.5" L brackets for my MIP stand. HAHAAHAHAHA! What a joke. Im going back to Lowes tommorow for some BIG daddy brackets now. MDF is a bit of a challenge for 1.5" L brackets.

Since I brag so much how changing from the NG to the Lear has been such a good change due to less obsession, I think I needed the few frustrations I faced in building tonight so that I could be reminded of your 85% theory.

Tommorow, I will be more relaxed about it all!

[AndyT]

mauriceb,

You said, "I wish I could pay someone to build it for me"

I'M HIRED! When should I expect airfare to arrive? I hope you have room for my wife also cuz I never travel without her....

[mauriceb]

So when are you coming over Maurice ?... I've got 4 boeing rudder pedals just waiting for you.... :D ... and I can't bear to look at them.


Thanks for the offer Nic, but I'm pretty sure I'd rather get 4 root canals (without anesthetic) rather than tackle 4 more rudder pedals. Funny thing is that the linkages were only one part of the grief. Making foot rests and hiding the middle part gave me unbounded joy as well :-). Almost done now at last but still have to add the electronics for it. I'm almost looking forward to that :roll:

Maurice

[NicD]

lol... ah well just some pics will do then ! :)

[mauriceb]

mauriceb,

You said, "I wish I could pay someone to build it for me"

I'M HIRED! When should I expect airfare to arrive? I hope you have room for my wife also cuz I never travel without her....

Hmmm!!!! Tempting indeed, especially if your wife is very attractive. Ooops, sorry honey..I never really meant that. Close call here. :oops: (I hate it when she reads over my shoulder)

The only trouble with your offer is that I may have missed the 'afford' part in my sentence which should have read I wish I could afford to pay someone...

But more importantly, you have just made my point. Why would you leave Hawaii to come to Canada when winter is approaching? I re-iterate my statement... flight deck building turns normally sane people into raging lunatics :D

Maurice

[JBaymore]

I re-iterate my statement... flight deck building turns normally sane people into raging lunatics

Hey! I resemble that remark! ;)

[mauriceb]

Hey! I resemble that remark! ;)


I don't care, because I am Napoleon & I have better things to worry about, & countries to invade, & pedals to finish :mrgreen:

Nappy

[JBaymore]

This whole concept is one big part of why I went "generic" with my cockpit design.

http://www.mycockpit.org/photopost/data/566/CurrentStatus080407-jcb.jpg

Most people would be "fooled" into thinking that image above is an aircraft cockpit. It "steals" liberally from individual design elements of many different real aircraft. Those details are replicated farely accurately in many cases... in others thay are extrapolated into something that approximates the "feel" of the unit. My goal was to capture the "essence" of the real cockpit environment and translate that into a custom cockpit that is MY aircraft with things I want in a cockpit in the locatons that I want them in.

best,

................john

[mauriceb]

This whole concept is one big part of why I went "generic" with my cockpit design.

Most people would be "fooled" into thinking that image above is an aircraft cockpit.
................john

So I would classify you as a sane builder :). In my very early days, I had exactly the same thought of building a generic cockpit and in fact, all I thought I wanted were a few switches here & there so that I could minimize the use of the mouse. But then... somewhere along the way, I decided I had to have a better throttle than the one that came with CH yoke.

I literally started with 2 sticks of wood and I have no idea how that evolved into a reasonably accurate 737 throttle replica. The only explanation that I can think of is 'the disease'. I was infected, as many people here are, and to my knowledge, there are no rehab facilities available yet for that disease.

Good for you about sticking with a generic cockpit. I'm 100% sure that you enjoy flying it every bit as much as anyone with a 'real' flight deck and maybe even more since the real cockpit types are always trying for more 'realism' it seems and getting less flying time in the process (assuming of course that the love of flying is the only motivation for building).

Maurice

[JBaymore]

So I would classify you as a sane builder :).

Maurice, I am very offended by that remark! How could you say such a thing? ;)

best,

.................john

[mauriceb]

Maurice, I am very offended by that remark! How could you say such a thing? ;)

best,

.................john

Sorry :cry:. But please don't be offended. Consider the source here... my comments are not those of a 'sane' person :)

Maurice

[Bob Reed]

With that statement I wonder what you are on Maurice. We all know John is as unstable as the rest of us. Just look at what he is building..... Not the work of a sane person.......:p:D;)

[JBaymore]

Thank you, Bob, for an insightful and accurate portrayal pf my psyche. ;)

best,

..........john

[Bob Reed]

Thank you, Bob, for an insightful and accurate portrayal pf my psyche. ;)

best,

..........john

Im here to help ya man!!!:p:shock:

[AndyT]

I hate the cold and would spend all my time inside working on the sim. But my wife misses the snow. (We lived in Michigan for 7 years before coming home.) Just keep the food coming and allow me plenty of flying time.....

Oh and by the way, ALL of you are nutz! And that comes from one so I should know! ;)

[PaulEMB]

Funny how the insaneness also hits a lot of us at the same time - I was contemplating a post similar to this yesterday, having spent the evening lifting floor panels and adjusting potentiometers, and refixing wires, and calibrating and, and....

The thought occured to work out how many man hours it takes an aircraft manufacturer to build a cockpit - I could then comfortably plan the next couple of decades of fiddling with soldering irons and multi coloured wires - mostly located, due to my previous diligence in making a large wooden tube, in hard to reach places!:D

Keep up the good work, team - group therapy may be the best way to stop us going completely over the edge.:cool:

[ivar hestnes]

I dont think it exists a good enough therapy for people like us. I am driving a dump-truck at work and after several years I still cant find the flap-handle. I have found the reverser though:D (retarder).
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c380/vrinsk/bilen.jpg

And in the mornings when starting my coffee machine, I just cant understand how it work without an APU.

[mauriceb]

And in the mornings when starting my coffee machine, I just cant understand how it work without an APU.

It does :?::?: :shock::shock::shock: I'll be damned :roll:

Maurice

[mauriceb]

Keep up the good work, team - group therapy may be the best way to stop us going completely over the edge.:cool:

Anything that takes us away from screwing, stripping, mating (connectors that is), inhaling MDF dust, body painting, screwing again is a very good thing. Well... maybe not the screwing part :D

Maurice

[PaulEMB]

Another day spent on my knees, screwing, stripping and "soldering?..)"

I seem to recall a time when carpet/grass burns on the knees meant something else - just can't remember what it was, but I do remember thinking that Renault mechanics had a third joint in their arms.

Meanwhile.... got my pots lined up and my FDS buttons sorted:smile:

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