New Beta Cdu release 393a

[excalibur67]

Hi guys, finally we start to see some news about Cdu software , in fact in the intermediate build section of project magenta website there is the new beta version like in subject. I hope that all the bugs finally went away.
Please report your experiences about this.

Giuseppe

[RGroebl]

I installed yesterday the new Beta CDU 393a. One flight from LMML to EDDM flown with no problems. It can be subjective, but I think the flightplan is now smoother on the magentaline.

Greets

Roland

[Jan Pemöller]

I made just a small check and get the same old error in preflite:

example:
EDDH-EGLL
WSR UN125 EEL EN872 PAM UL980 LOGAN

1. DEP RWY 23 WSR SID
2. RTE Page: UN125.EEL UN872.PAM UL980.LOGAN
until here all OK
3. ARR RWY 27R LAM STAR
NOW: after execute the waypoints between PAM-LOGAN are gone.
It is the second line on the second RTE page which disappear.

If you put in manualy all waypoints on the LEGS PAGE it works great
(as before)! But this is hard work for long flights ;-)

Pls confirm my results to clear up, that the problem is not on my site.
Thanks
Jan

P.S. will send this to PM aswell ...

[JonathanRichardson]

Hi

We are still testing this, it is not really a release build, but if you follow procedures correctly and use the correct navdata you should see an improvement. This is not the final build, it is only up there because we had some e-mail problems yesturday transfering files.
There are also operational differences re weights with the new builds that have to be considered.

Regards
Jonathan Richardson

[Jan Pemöller]

OK, Jonathan!

Thanks for your reply - and your mail.
My answer to your questions are on the way ;-)

With new informations I will come back here.

Best regards
Jan

[Jan Pemöller]

Hi all,

the old problem with the disapearing of parts of the route only comes if you enter the route via the RTE page with the airway.waypoint format.
If you enter the route via the LEGs page (point by point) I fond NO problems.

I can live with this sitiuation, Jonathan told me, this not very big problem will not be repaired in the next update of the CDU.

Thanks for informing me.
And keep on improving - we love PM!

Jan

[Trevor Hale]

One step closer to perfection LOL.

It is good to see that PM is getting there.

Thanks Johnathan.

Trev

[michelmvd]

I did 2 testflts with the latest beta build of the CDU.
My routings were :
EBOS/EGKK - SID 08/SASKI - UL179 ERING - UY76 KOPUL - STAR 08R /
EGKK/EBOS - SID 08R / DVR - UL9 KONAN - L607 KOK STAR 08 (which I made afterwards in flt a straight in from KONAN to DD 08

There was no problem at all to change these routes during flts.

I was setting the routes in preflight via RTE page, but first AWY and them waypoint limit. (not the airway.waypoint format )

My general impression is the smoothness of the CDU operation and (maybe just an impression) a smoother networking aswell.

I'm aware this is a rather small route, but the results are looking good so far.

Just one remark, in the PFD lower/left corner an "SET AUTO" in amber is now coming up, what this mean and which type it is related ... no idea.

Will check this with support.

Many thanks PM, it looks we are on the route (or airway) again ;) ;)

B. rgds

Michel

[Jan Pemöller]

Hi Michel,

good to hear - will test your way of inputting the data tomorrow.

I found today still one little bug. When you change the RWY in flight - the heading starts getting crasy until you press EXECUTE. An old knowing bug ...

Your SET AUTO question can I not answer, sorry!

Regards
Jan

[JonathanRichardson]

Hi

It is not really ideal testing this with the old MCP build. New one is not released yet. You are going to be a bit out of phase, but at least you see some improvements. That might be the problem with the HDG situation - I have not seen this.

Regards
Jonathan Richardson

[michelmvd]

Ok Jonathan, I understand.
But I really have the impression this build is a lot smoother too and network resources are better.
Looking forwards to see the new builds.
Btw what is this setting in amber SET AUTO ? something B738 related?

B. rgds
Michel

[JonathanRichardson]

Hi

Just ignore the SetAuto.

Please also take note of the following re the weights: (I have not added this yet to Notams but as the build seems to being used you should make sure to check this)

We have changed the way the CDU works re the performance page. To make things more realistic you now must enter your ZFW manually into the CDU ZFW LSK. This means that the "Payload=" section of your aircraft.type text file is now ignored if using PM with the CDU. So, in order to arrive at your correct ZFW weight you need to know / do the following.

1/ Know and make a note of your MSFS aircraft Empty Weight in LBS

2/ Make sure that this is entered correctly in the type.txt file of the aircraft you are flying with the CDU. (Enter in LBS.)

[The above stage is a normal requirement and has not changed.]

3/ Ignore the Payload= entry if there - this no longer will be computed.

4/ Make a note of your "total payload" using FS weights menu or the Instructor Station. Make sure you are working in one unit / Kgs or LBS or make your conversions correctly (if required).

5/ Manually add your empty weight figure (1) and your payload figure (2) and the total will be your ZFW. Enter the ZFW figure to the LSK ZFW entry.

The CDU will now compute the GW for you taking into account the current fuel automatically.

The GW should be a total of Fuel + ZFW. Please note figures shown in (XXX) brackets are the actual air model weight, if there is a large difference then you should investigate this. The bracketed figure is put there as a reference. It can be removed via an ini setting.

Please note, other a/c types require different procedures, we use 737 OPS as the reference point, customers may have to make adjustments to comply with this for other a/c types re what is and is not computed automatically.

[michelmvd]

Hello,
Unfortunately it looks that there are still about the same problems with long routes in the new beta build / airoc cycle 0712.
I did today a flight EBOS-GCLP with following routing

EBOS RWY 08 SASKI 2S SASKI UL179 ERING UY76 KOPUL UL610 GILDA UL620 MID UR8 SAM UN621 MARUK UM195 LORKU UN866 BERAD UM30 VES UN872 ESP UZ4 BAROK UN873 SAMAR
SAMAR 2C RWY03L

- when entering UN873 waypoint SAMAR, I was getting a runtime error 9 (script out of range). By entering the waypoint SAMAR DCTn, no problem

- when entering the SAMAR sid - during preflight - route from UZ4 on was gone ... (was on page 3 of RTE).

I reported the errors to support in more detail.

B. Rgds
Michel

[JonathanRichardson]

- when entering UN873 waypoint SAMAR, I was getting a runtime error 9 (script out of range). By entering the waypoint SAMAR DCTn, no problem

HI

Did you enter this via the LEGS pages?

>- when entering the SAMAR sid - during preflight - route from UZ4 on was gone ... (was on page 3 of RTE).

Was the PERF page filled in (i.e. FL) or was it blank at this stage?

>I reported the errors to support in more detail.

Yes, we received that.

Regards
Jonathan




B. Rgds
Michel[/QUOTE]

[michelmvd]

[QUOTE=JonathanRichardson;47043]- when entering UN873 waypoint SAMAR, I was getting a runtime error 9 (script out of range). By entering the waypoint SAMAR DCTn, no problem

HI

Did you enter this via the LEGS pages?

No, via RTE page , left LSK, so then DIRECT SAMAR is coming up

>- when entering the SAMAR sid - during preflight - route from UZ4 on was gone ... (was on page 3 of RTE).

Was the PERF page filled in (i.e. FL) or was it blank at this stage?

- Not yet, I started first in RTE page - then DEP/ARR EBOS, continued to enter routing in RTE by the syntax AWY and afterward limit waypoint.

[JonathanRichardson]

>Did you enter this via the LEGS pages?
>No, via RTE page , left LSK, so then DIRECT SAMAR is coming up

That might be the reason. If you make all entires / changes via legs pages there appear to be no problems so far that result in a complete loss of the route during flight or on ground during pre-flight. Just to be sure, it is really important if selecting a new DEPT or ARRV that the previous ones are ERASED using the option on the DEP/ARV page - otherwise that can at the moment cause problems.

>Was the PERF page filled in (i.e. FL) or was it blank at this stage?
- Not yet, I started first in RTE page - then DEP/ARR EBOS, continued to enter routing in RTE by the syntax AWY and afterward limit waypoint.[/QUOTE]

Very good. Keep to that procedure, as it is the correct way. If the Perf is entered prior (as many seem to be doing) it seems to mess things up a bit especially if the FL is entered prior to the RTE / SID / STAR and legs pages cleaned up. I always clean the whole route up first, and then enter the FL - currently using this procedure there appears to be a very big improvement. If you drift from it, it can cause some problems.

Regards
Jonathan Richardson

[michelmvd]

[QUOTE=JonathanRichardson;47052]>Did you enter this via the LEGS pages?

>That might be the reason. If you make all entires / changes via legs pages there appear >to be no problems so far that result in a complete loss of the route during flight or on >ground during pre-flight.

hmmm, its a common procedure to enter routes by entering AWY number ( UA345) and then the limit waypoint in the routepage, otherwise you have to enter all waypoints one by one in the legg page, which is not a normal procedure certainly not for a long haul route ;)

Jonathan do I understand to right, but a this moment, we have to enter waypoint by waypoint in the legg page??

>Was the PERF page filled in (i.e. FL) or was it blank at this stage?
>- Not yet, I started first in RTE page - then DEP/ARR EBOS, continued to enter routing >in RTE by the syntax AWY and afterward limit waypoint.

>Very good. Keep to that procedure, as it is the correct way. If the Perf is entered prior (as many seem to be doing) it seems to mess things up a bit especially if the FL is entered >prior to the RTE / SID / STAR and legs pages cleaned up. I always clean the whole route >up first, and then enter the FL - currently using this procedure there appears to be a >very big improvement. If you drift from it, it can cause some problems.

I always try to do it as in real life ;) ;) So I follow the pre-flight flow correctly.


Thanks for help
Michel

[JonathanRichardson]

>hmmm, its a common procedure to enter routes by entering AWY number ( UA345) and then the limit waypoint in the routepage, otherwise you have to enter all waypoints one by one in the legg page, which is not a normal procedure certainly not for a long haul route ;)

Yes I know. You only need one data set error though and it will collapse. That is another problem.

We have to take this in steps, if everything works okay via the legs pages and very basic route planning, then we move onto other areas. Something major changed in the CDU, it is like pulling the foundations out from underneath a building. This is not like old times, easy quick fixes to problems. The navdata has changed, and then also the way the route line generation is programmed has changed. So, the whole method of generating routes and computing everything. You can build routes in the legs pages, save them and recall them. See if when changing sid/star it ever makes the whole route dissappear. If that happens we need to know the sequence. Then we move into the other areas.

>I always try to do it as in real life ;) ;) So I follow the pre-flight flow correctly.

Good. But this is a internal beta build we are looking at. So, it is for trouble shooting and to try and find a combination that causes the "basic" line drawing to fail. If we have got to the stage where nothing can confuse the CDU with normal basic entry ops. Then we move into the other areas... does this make sense? If everyone reports no problems with basic planning / LNAV. Then we have made progress. If we mix other things into the soup at this stage it will not be helpful I think.

Regards
Jonathan Richardson



Thanks for help
Michel[/QUOTE]

[michelmvd]

Good. But this is a internal beta build we are looking at. So, it is for trouble shooting and to try and find a combination that causes the "basic" line drawing to fail. If we have got to the stage where nothing can confuse the CDU with normal basic entry ops. Then we move into the other areas... does this make sense? If everyone reports no problems with basic planning / LNAV. Then we have made progress. If we mix other things into the soup at this stage it will not be helpful I think.



Yes Jonathan, I 100% agree with you. Step by step and checking every time the results. Otherwise you never know, what is causing the problems I think.
Will do new tests in the following days, with entry methods you are describing and see how it works or fail.

If other members like to check the route feel free to do so : (EBOS/GCLP)

EBOS RWY 08 SASKI 2S SASKI UL179 ERING UY76 KOPUL UL610 GILDA UL620 MID UR8 SAM UN621 MARUK UM195 LORKU UN866 BERAD UM30 VES UN872 ESP UZ4 BAROK UN873 SAMAR
SAMAR 2C RWY03L

I still have the impression that nevertheless the errors, the general CDU operation is far more smoother and accurate.

See you
Michel

[Jan Pemöller]

Hi Michel,

could you pls send the waypoints for the LEGS page ? ;-)

Regards
Jan

[michelmvd]

Hi Jan,
Here is all the info from fltplan.
B. Rgds
Michel

FLIGHTPLAN:
AWY POS FREQ FL MT DIST TME ATO ETO ETA EET FUEL FOB RFU
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EBOS 0,00 ..../..../..../0,00 0,00 /.....42,20
SASK2S SASKI F077 319 027,2 0,04 ..../..../..../00.04 1,30 /.....40,90
UL179 GILTI F118 278 016,7 0,02 ..../..../..../00.06 1,99 /.....40,22
UL179 ERING F154 276 016,6 0,02 ..../..../..../00.08 2,60 /.....39,61
UY76 KOPUL F192 264 018,0 0,02 ..../..../..../00.10 3,23 /.....38,98
UL610 GILDA F233 283 021,0 0,02 ..../..../..../00.12 3,91 /.....38,30
UL620 MID 114.00 F327 238 056,0 0,05 ..../..../..../00.17 5,44 /.....36,77
UR8 SAM 113.35 F373 261 027,9 0,02 ..../..../..../00.19 6,05 /.....36,16
* TOC KAPEX D-010
UN621 KAPEX F390 232 025,5 0,02 ..../..../..../00.21 6,52 /.....35,69
UN621 BEVEL F390 201 016,5 0,02 ..../..../..../00.23 6,79 /.....35,41
UN621 MARUK F390 201 010,7 0,01 ..../..../..../00.24 6,97 /.....35,24
UM195 LORKU F390 215 021,8 0,03 ..../..../..../00.27 7,32 /.....34,88
UN866 GOBUR F390 218 047,5 0,06 ..../..../..../00.33 8,13 /.....34,08
UN866 TITUB F390 217 035,9 0,04 ..../..../..../00.37 8,72 /.....33,48
UN866 BERAD F390 216 035,2 0,04 ..../..../..../00.41 9,32 /.....32,88
UM30 QPR 117.80 F390 197 021,3 0,03 ..../..../..../00.44 9,69 /.....32,51
UM30 ERWAN F390 204 128,6 0,15 ..../..../..../00.59 11,78 /.....30,43
UM30 LOTEE F390 202 081,1 0,09 ..../..../..../01.08 13,09 /.....29,11
UM30 VES 112.40 F390 192 066,3 0,08 ..../..../..../01.16 14,15 /.....28,05
UN872 KORET F390 211 051,4 0,06 ..../..../..../01.22 14,97 /.....27,23
UN872 BARKO F390 211 039,9 0,05 ..../..../..../01.27 15,62 /.....26,59
UN872 RALUS F390 210 017,6 0,02 ..../..../..../01.29 15,90 /.....26,30
UN872 CANAR F390 210 036,7 0,04 ..../..../..../01.33 16,50 /.....25,71
UN872 VIS 113.10 F390 209 044,0 0,05 ..../..../..../01.38 17,23 /.....24,98
UN872 ABETO F390 209 019,3 0,02 ..../..../..../01.40 17,54 /.....24,67
UN872 FTM 113.50 F390 208 050,1 0,06 ..../..../..../01.46 18,36 /.....23,84
UN872 ESP 112.50 F390 209 081,3 0,10 ..../..../..../01.56 19,70 /.....22,51
UZ4 NAKOS F390 200 026,4 0,03 ..../..../..../01.59 20,12 /.....22,09
UZ4 BAROK F390 200 126,5 0,15 ..../..../..../02.14 22,24 /.....19,96
UN873 BENTU F390 223 100,2 0,13 ..../..../..../02.27 23,96 /.....18,24
UN873 NEVEL F390 222 121,2 0,15 ..../..../..../02.42 26,00 /.....16,21
UN873 MITLA F390 222 124,3 0,16 ..../..../..../02.58 28,11 /.....14,09
UN873 SAMAR F390 222 029,9 0,04 ..../..../..../03.02 28,60 /.....13,60
* TOD ENETA D-093
D03L ENETA F126 197 181,3 0,23 ..../..../..../03.25 30,78 /.....11,43
D03L *Proc F126 0,00 ..../..../..../03.25 30,78 /.....11,43
D03L D196J F045 244 029,5 0,05 ..../..../..../03.30 31,06 /.....11,15
D03L D208H F039 340 002,7 0,00 ..../..../..../03.30 31,13 /.....11,07
D03L LPC 115.00 F017 027 008,0 0,01 ..../..../..../03.31 31,19 /.....11,01
GCLP 0,00 ..../..../..../03.31 33,17 /.....9,04
[FF]

[JWS]

Hi guys,

did a test from LOWI to LIRF. Entering/changing a STAR screwed the route the first time. Tried again and had more luck. But I wonder what the correct sequence is. I start with Rwy's on RTE page (destination ariport as well), then DEP/ARR page to enter SID, then back tot RTE page for route (up to entry waypoint STAR), then STAR on DEP/ARR page.

Flying the route went well but the a/c kept busting every speed restraint in the book. Noticed a Deceleration point prior to the TOD. Plane went back to about 240 knots. After TOD speed went up and up. Had to disconnect A/T to get things under control again.

And other problems still remain: unable to enter decimal distances on FIX page, V/S 6000 if one hits the V/S button, entering approaches results in waypoints that are a few hundred (up to thousends) miles away.

I'll run some tests using the EBOS-EGKK route, mentioned earlier this thread by Michel.

Best regards,

JWS

BTW, it is probably me being dumb:?, but there is a small white pointer on the speed tape, what does this indicate?

[Peter Nielsen]

Hi guys,

did a test from LOWI to LIRF. Entering/changing a STAR screwed the route the first time. Tried again and had more luck. But I wonder what the correct sequence is. I start with Rwy's on RTE page (destination ariport as well), then DEP/ARR page to enter SID, then back tot RTE page for route (up to entry waypoint STAR), then STAR on DEP/ARR page.

On the RTE page, enter the route, via waypoints or airways.
once this is done, go to PREF and set up weight,fuel, flight level. winds, temp etc, then to the take of page and set Flaps and Speeds.

Then go back to RTE page and enter the Runway for the DEPARTING airport only and THEN the STAR for the departing airport only.

There is no point in doing this earlier as you will only learn the rwy in use and SID from Clearance Delivery when you ask for an IFR Clearance by which time you already as a norm would have entered your actual route.

Also to enter destination rwy and STAR from the outset is not realistic, as this can change with changes in wheater.. hence the use of ATIS which you can tune into some 150 or more miles from arrival airport and plan your approach accordingly.

This way there will be no need to change STAR's except if the weather changes whilst on approach.

Peter

[JWS]

Also to enter destination rwy and STAR from the outset is not realistic, as this can change with changes in wheater.. hence the use of ATIS which you can tune into some 150 or more miles from arrival airport and plan your approach accordingly.

This way there will be no need to change STAR's except if the weather changes whilst on approach.

Peter

Peter,

thx. About "realistic". MSF isn't all that realistic, since you won't get ATIS untill 30 miles out. By that time you should be half way your STAR already.

Grtz,

JWS

[Peter Nielsen]

Peter,

thx. About "realistic". MSF isn't all that realistic, since you won't get ATIS untill 30 miles out. By that time you should be half way your STAR already.

Grtz,

JWS

In which case you have 2 other options.

1. Start to fly on line VATSIM/IVAO and experience real interaction with other people.

2. I assume you use a stand alone weather generator, such as Active Sky and have internet connection and are use PMgetWX programme..in which case you can use the ACARS option on the CDU to call up the METAR for your destination airport, say some 200 miles out and then decide which rwy and STAR to use depending on the latest WX..

To set up your Destination RWY and STAR at point of origin is not realistic as the WX may change whilst on route..

Cheers
Peter

[JWS]

Peter,

1. is on it's way but have to get my setup working properly.

2. Yes, I use AS so good idea. I'll look for PMgetWX.
Hopefully MSFS will asign the correct runways.

Now let's end this sub-thread, because we're wandering off the original subject.

Cheers to you,
JWS

[Peter Dowson]

2. Yes, I use AS so good idea. I'll look for PMgetWX.
Hopefully MSFS will asign the correct runways.

For good ATC with realistic ATIS weather distances (up to 80 nm) you might want to lok at Radar Contact, instead of using FS's own rather unrealistic ATC.

Regards

Pete

[David Rogers]

I second that.

For me, for maximum realism and involvement, it's IVAO or VATSIM.... buy there are times, for a variety of reasons and preferences, when you may want to fly off-line, and for that, I always use Radar Contact.... It's like the ATC we always wanted from MS ;-)

[737NUT]

Just last night, i flew from KSEA to KFAR. Using Real world weather option in FS9.

About 150 miles out i got on my laptop and checked the REAL metar for KFAR. When i got with-in range of ATIS low and behold, the weather was EXACTLY what the real metar showed. How can it get any better?? :)

[JWS]

OK guys, I got the message.;)
1. I'll use RC (just installed it but must get the hang of it yet);
2. join IVAO (as soon as all the scenery is installed and PM and my CPFlight MCP are working like they should i.e. without + 6000 feet/min when engaging V/S);
3. and use PMgetWX (works great).

Now that being said, let's return to the subject of this thread, the CDU 393a.

Did the flights Michel used (EBOS-EGKK-EBOS) and must say that the routeplanning seems to be working fine now.
But, experienced problems with the A/T & speed restraints (don't know if this is CDU related).
Taking off from rwy 26 EGKK or 08 EBOS and using SID's means a sharp 180 degrees turn towards your destination. So I wanted the speed low (220 kts) until after the turn. Entered these restrictions in the LEGS page but the a/c busted them several times. I even had the speed going into the 350 (in stead of staying at least below 250).
On one test the VNAV speed stuck to 220 (while it should have been 250). Engaging SPD I selected 250 but as soon as it was on 250 and engaging VNAV, it dropped back to 220 (while the CDU showed 250).
I also noticed that between two waypoints where a speed restriction was entered, the speed was suddenly changed from let's say 190 to 250 (not nice when you are about to nose over on final).

Grtz,

JWS

[Thunder175]

Did the flights Michel used (EBOS-EGKK-EBOS) and must say that the routeplanning seems to be working fine now.
But, experienced problems with the A/T & speed restraints (don't know if this is CDU related).
Taking off from rwy 26 EGKK or 08 EBOS and using SID's means a sharp 180 degrees turn towards your destination. So I wanted the speed low (220 kts) until after the turn. Entered these restrictions in the LEGS page but the a/c busted them several times. I even had the speed going into the 350 (in stead of staying at least below 250).
On one test the VNAV speed stuck to 220 (while it should have been 250). Engaging SPD I selected 250 but as soon as it was on 250 and engaging VNAV, it dropped back to 220 (while the CDU showed 250).
I also noticed that between two waypoints where a speed restriction was entered, the speed was suddenly changed from let's say 190 to 250 (not nice when you are about to nose over on final).

Having similar issues with VNAV speed not adhering to what you program. I even had an issue where I did an RNAV approach and set my FAF speed and altitude restrictions in the legs page of 140kts at whatever altitude. The plane flew as directed and landed no issues. I then flushed the CDU as per the usual and entered my next leg of my journey. Upon takeoff, the VNAV/FMC speed would not budge above 140 even after flushing the CDU multiple times. The only fix was to shutdown the CDU and restart it fresh. It seems to want to remember the last speed you entered and will not forget it even after entering a new flightplan from scratch.

My typical routine upon completion of a leg is now to close the CDU and restart the program to make sure there is no errant data still in the computer. Seems to work just fine that way but a fix to this pricey software would be nice! ;)

Just one more observation on a seperate issue: as long as you don't enter an approach, route generation seems to be much improved. The usual craziness starts when entering your approach, but by the time I get to finishing the STAR I just erase the whole arrival and select only the approach I need, then go direct to the first waypoint it indicates.