Steve's 737 approved by local police..

[steveeverson]

Hi Everyone,
Had a visit by 2 detective constables from the local police station this morning- 'nothing to worry about sir, but we have had a report that you have a flight simulator in your house and have come round to investigate..'

As it turned out they were very nice and i invited them up to the spare room where they could see my cockpit build in progress.. fired up the sim and one of them even tried a takeoff from london heathrow. They couldn't tell me where they got my information from but reading between the lines it seems they are sometimes passed leads from the internet.. They were very happy that i wasn't doing anything suspicious, especially as i explained that i was a member of the local gliding club and also involved in UK worldflight as one of the pilots (flying a friends 747 sim) and raising money for charity.They also asked who flew with me and i explained that it was just friends/family etc.

Also explained about our growing hobby, vatsim etc.. They were both very impressed and i think actually:D quite enjoyed themselves.

They liked the fact there was a builders/flightsim community and asked if i could mention to everyone that we should always pass on any information about people who may contact us wanting to fly our sims with any suspicious intentions (i guess that means anyone wanting to learn to fly and not to land etc..)

Anyway- interesting morning. Certainly shows that the uk government take things seriously.
Steve:p

[Bob Reed]

As large as this site has become, don't think that it is not watched by a number of government agencies from a number of countries! :shock:

[David Rogers]

Wow - I'm really taken back by that Steve..... I mean, in one sense, yes, it is good that the security aspect is there, but on the other hand, with regards to privacy and one's rights to enjoy a hobby in the privacy of their own home ....... one can't help thinking it's another brick in the wall of the world becomming a Police state ....

It's not at all my intention to provoke any political debates (this is surely not the place), and I know people have starkly different views on things like this. Perhaps the world now needs this type of surveillance ..... sad if that's the case.

Oh well, I best get the kettle on if MI5 are due any day ! :)

The fact is, the intelligence agencies of the world should realise the perhaps scary fact that, you don't need a home cockpit to learn how to fly a plane - a copy of flight simulator 2004, and a couple of advanced add-ons could potentially teach people what they need to know about some airliners.

Anyway, the most reassuring thing Steve, is that they were decent blokes and treated you respectfully. It's one thing making a polite enquiry but I'd be most upset if my front door was busted in, or the SAS arrived on ropes through my attic window.... :)

Note to UK Intelligence agencies - you're welcome to see my 'pit but I'd recommend waiting 2 weeks, until I've painted the pedestal !

Not making light of the crucial work that the security services do, I am just applying some light heartedness to some of the mad ways our world is changing.

[Geremy Britton]

blimey - didn't think they would be allowed to do that sort of thing. (especially if it got out in papers etc. i'm sure they would make a meal of it as usual:roll:)

[steveeverson]

Thanks David, they were really decent blokes and very polite- only wished that the centre eicas came up as it usually does- ! usual software/network problems. Still good exercise in flying without all the instruments!

Ps must have a uk builders meetup sometime!

Steve:roll:

[Trevor Hale]

blimey - didn't think they would be allowed to do that sort of thing. (especially if it got out in papers etc. i'm sure they would make a meal of it as usual:roll:)


I am sure that if you had requested some kind of a warrant, you would have nothing but problems. Bottom line for all of us this is a hobby, and if you have nothing to hide, why not let them in.

Great story. Wish someone would show some interest like that in my setup ROFL...

Just goes to show what kind of a different world we all live in since 9/11

Best regards,

Trev

[Geremy Britton]

yeah, i remember my parents taking me up to the flight deck and i used to gaze around in amazement at all the switches not knowing what anything does! (now i do obviously:)) I still have a look in the flightdeck on some occations after landing if the pilot lets me - depends.

[Tomlin]

Police State- that is definitely what comes to mind in this case. Thankfully they just had a look around and realized straight away that it (in your case) is nothing more than a hobby. That kinda crap better not happen here (in the US) or there will be heck to pay.

I have known controlled substance sellers down the street from me with cars coming and going at all times of night and cops are well aware of it, but the amount of time it takes to surveil and get a warrant to bust them is too much we're told. There in the UK a couple of blokes show up and demand to look around at a home flight simulator that is well document on the internet-that's a bit much IMNSHO.

Sadly, like Trevor mentioned, there would likely be more issues by refusing entry than not.

[Gsey]

"That kinda crap better not happen here (in the US) or there will be heck to pay"

Is this really that a big deal? The police knock on the door, you show them the sim, take a flight, chat about the hobby and have some fun in the process. The police are happy, the security agency is happy and your name is struck off the list.

I think its great that people are still being vigilant in our countries when it comes to security. God knows we need to be and outside of our community this hobby isnt normal is other peoples eyes.

Gary

[Bob Reed]

No to "normal" people we look like fruits!:D You should see peoples expressions when I say what my hobby is but that does not compare to when I show them the cockpit.... Hmm is that a guy in a white coat at my door? Nice jacket he has there for me, but why are the arms so long?:shock::?:

[steveeverson]

Yeah, was def a good idea to let them in- we should be doing all we can to show that we are not (entirely!)mad and safe to the community. I think it's better that our respective governments are looking after our safety and as i said before they were very nice and friendly in our typical british way..

if only they could have given me some advice on wiring up annunciators to pmdg!

steve

ps.am working on a solution to that using LDR's- bit out of the box but look at my gallery and you get the idea!:D

[andarlite]

No to "normal" people we look like fruits!:D You should see peoples expressions when I say what my hobby is but that does not compare to when I show them the cockpit.... Hmm is that a guy in a white coat at my door? Nice jacket he has there for me, but why are the arms so long?:shock::?:

Heh heh.... boy Bob, you don't know how right you are.... most of my friends think I'm nuts and then there are my wife's friends who really think I'm off the deep end. But, their tune changes when they come over and see the cockpit for the first time..... then they all want to fly it.

Regards,
Henry

[Gsey]

LOL, so true, so true. The first question is always "why" so now instead of trying to explain myself I tell those that want to know that Im colour blind so couldnt get into the airlines, works very very well, with no more of those your a fruit cake strange looks :-)

Gary

[Bob Reed]

LOL, so true, so true. The first question is always "why" so now instead of trying to explain myself I tell those that want to know that Im colour blind so couldnt get into the airlines, works very very well, with no more of those your a fruit cake strange looks :-)

Gary

HA!!!! That is a good one!!

[Tomlin]

"That kinda crap better not happen here (in the US) or there will be heck to pay"

Is this really that a big deal? The police knock on the door, you show them the sim, take a flight, chat about the hobby and have some fun in the process. The police are happy, the security agency is happy and your name is struck off the list.

I think its great that people are still being vigilant in our countries when it comes to security. God knows we need to be and outside of our community this hobby isnt normal is other peoples eyes.

Gary

Hi Gary,

I certainly dont mean to come across as 'John Wayne', but the problem is that I believe there are a certain amount of freedoms that each member of society in every country should enjoy. Having the cops show up without much reason to for checking up on a home sim, to me, is a bit invasive. Personally, I would have also let them in and probably fired it up and gave the boys a test flight. However, I believe that the war on terror is being abused to justify unneeded searching and here in the US it would not be very well taken to if they came knocking and had no warrant.

[Trevor Hale]

Hi Gary,

I certainly dont mean to come across as 'John Wayne', but the problem is that I believe there are a certain amount of freedoms that each member of society in every country should enjoy. Having the cops show up without much reason to for checking up on a home sim, to me, is a bit invasive. Personally, I would have also let them in and probably fired it up and gave the boys a test flight. However, I believe that the war on terror is being abused to justify unneeded searching and here in the US it would not be very well taken to if they came knocking and had no warrant.

Eric, Welcome to the changed world. Those that have to.... Hide things, those that don't.... wont.

Put your foot on their shoes, every day trying to figure out the unknown... It is not an easy task, and people that cause problems just make their job protecting us even harder...

Good on them, and it is to all of them that we owe our daily freedom.

[Tomlin]

Put your foot on their shoes, every day trying to figure out the unknown... It is not an easy task, and people that cause problems just make their job protecting us even harder...

Good on them, and it is to all of them that we owe our daily freedom.

I whole heartedly agree- as a MilSim organizer, working with LE in my profession, and as a conservative- I support efforts to keep everyone safe. However, political correctness is something I abhor and it's a shame when little old grey-haired grandmothers are targeted in security concerns rather than dodgy looking fellas carrying bulky bags and acting freaky suspcious. Now a perfectly 'normal' sim guy has the cops knocking on his door. That's all Im saying, and no offense to grey haired grandmas or dodgy looking, bag-carrying fellas! :-)

To the OP- thanks for sharing your experience- I bet it was fun in the end to have them take a look at it all.

I also agree with the others, in that, it's much better to SHOW them the sim than to try to explain it. I remember back when I was still a sim 'planner'... I would try to explain it to people how I was going to do this and have that, and boy how cool it would be to have it all in the flesh. Now that I have it built, I kinda keep it to myself unless I know I will get a chance to show 'em a photo or have them come and sit in it!

Thanks to everyone here,

[magicaldr]

Hmm, as a UK citizen this makes me nervous. I must say you handle it with typical humor, and although I would have acted just as you did I personally would be unhappy afterwards.

Forgoing the waste of Police time, do they check every PPL in the UK personally? Will we be following home kids who buy FSX soon? I am not scared of us becoming a Police state, part of me thinks we are already there. We don't need whips to subjugate us, we will do it to ourselves.

I am not sure what 'suspicious' people are either. If you watched my flying skills most days you would not believe I like FSX. Also I would look totally lost in a heavy as I only fly GA. So would I be suspicious if we met? I don't know the jargon, I cant program an FMC, and straight and level is prob my limit in a 747. Still I would love to visit my fellow builders and have a go, I just would not be any good...

Think I will stick to my Piper Warrior, maybe being visited will be a mark of honor one day. Once your sim reaches a certain lvl you get inspected. That is of course unless the government sees this as the next target, they already going for my swords (I do martial arts), making them illegal. Is my sim next?

So I am scaremongering, I do just feel sometimes that our governments approach to solving crime is to make more people criminals and arrest them. Far easier than going for the real criminals who know the system and break the rules as a matter of course. Those of us who try to follow them spend their lives running to keep up with the law.

I am not blaming the Police, they trying to do an impossible job. I may not work in the security services, but I have seen what targets do to people and organizations. Our services in the UK are buried under targets, and I don't know how they manage to do the job they do.

[mpl330]

Wow - I'm quite amazed - but if you have nothing to hide then you get to spend a little time showing off your work... "Yes dear I am helping the police with their enquiries"!!!

2 new converts then?
Mike

[737NUT]

I had a govt. official visit my house awhile back. Had to show him the 737sim. He was impressed, took a few notes, then left.
Very courtious.

[DAL900]

Ok, I have to comment now. I am a police officer and have been for twenty years ( I have worked undercover and was assigned to several federal task forces ( not bragging but giving insight on what I have done)), I see and deal with BS and the secret squirrel stuff that know one wants you to know about. I have friends in federal agencies and I asked if anyone looked into me about my sim and this is what he/she said, "oh, they/we know who you are". Enough said, I now know I'm on the radar but flying low because it is used for personal recreation and thats it, not in a malicious manner. Not teaching straight and level flying. I got the impression that we "all" are on the radar because of our hobby.

This is not an attempt to start a debate and I won't get dragged into one. I am not trying to flame anyone or persuade their opinion, just educate..




I certainly dont mean to come across as 'John Wayne', but the problem is that I believe there are a certain amount of freedoms that each member of society in every country should enjoy. Having the cops show up without much reason to for checking up on a home sim, to me, is a bit invasive. Personally, I would have also let them in and probably fired it up and gave the boys a test flight. However, I believe that the war on terror is being abused to justify unneeded searching and here in the US it would not be very well taken to if they came knocking and had no warrent.

Remember we are post 9/11 and living in their world where anything goes to get their "mission" completed reguardless of collateral damage which in their eyes there is none. I am stationed at a major airport and see the briefings and current trends of what they are attempting to do. How they test us. I have personally witnessed it and they are very resourceful. I am not a war monger, I do belive some things are being abused in the name of the "war", but these sob's are machines like a Terminator and they have to be wasted to put it bluntly. If one tries to come thru the check point, I have only one order.......

I understand that you would get upset about cops coming to check out your sim and I probably would to, but what can you do, they are just doing their job following up on leads. DO you have any idea how many "Arab" calls we got after 9/11? Every major incident results in every neighbor ratting on the other neighbor? Do they amout to anything, 99% of the time no. But the neighbor feels," I thought you might ought to know"

And if you are going to keep talking about "warrents" it's spelled warrants

[ivar hestnes]

I actually think this is a good thing:)

We all want to live on a safe planet. And because of the "you never know" factor, I think it is good that the law comes for a visit to meet the builder/enthusiast to put him on the "safe" list:)

I dont think any man with bad things on his mind would use all this hours of cutting metal, soldering interface-boards, shaping wood, painting and tweaking software. They would probably do it an easyer way. But how can I know that for sure, and authorities cant know that for sure.

They have good reason for checking, and we should take that as an compliment for the work we do.

The authorities are more than welcome to my house. I will serve hot coffee and a test-flight:)

[Matt Olieman]

DAL900, I'm with ya.... From the first day I started my project, I expected I will be watched. I'm not doing anything wrong and have nothing to hide. I welcome any govt. official to stop by and look around :)

That's just the way it's going to be..... things changed after 9/11, it was to be expected, as unfortunate as it may be..... life goes on, just different.

[W9XE/Project777]

I have no problem showing the police anything about my sim. I would not keep any secrets from them and answer there questions the best I could.

Only question I would not want them to ask in front of the wife. "How much did this cost?"

May need the law for protection then :D:D:D

[Trevor Hale]

The authorities are more than welcome to my house. I will serve hot coffee and a test-flight:)

To heck with the coffee, I serve Beer.. LOL

[James Twomey]

To heck with coffee or beer.... Bourbon on the rocks!!!!!!:cool:....Gotta put them in first class!!!! LMAO

[Trevor Hale]

DAL900, I'm with ya.... From the first day I started my project, I expected I will be watched. I'm not doing anything wrong and have nothing to hide. I welcome any govt. official to stop by and look around :)

That's just the way it's going to be..... things changed after 9/11, it was to be expected, as unfortunate as it may be..... life goes on, just different.


100% I am with you guys. We live in a changed world now, and I am a firm beleiver that I have nothing to hide, therefore common in.

It would be a great feeling that officials feel my sim could be worthy of such an honor.

[AndyT]

Hmmm.... This is a very interesting thread.
I never really considered the implications of building a sim. I just decided I wanted to do it and got to work on it. I guess I have not been visited since mine is in storage and its only GA anyway.

I agree that getting crossed off the list is a good thing but I look back over my life and all the things I used to do that would have gotten me on the list in the first place and I wonder who my guardian angel is.

Praise God I don't do all that stuff anymore.

[jabomeister]

Personally I would have asked them to show me a warrant.

You're building a sim, not a real airplane or a missile. This is definitely police overstepping their boundaries in a big way.

[HitchHiker]

Hmmmm.... to put things on the lighter side should I be worried about always mentioning that I like military sims and prefer to blow things up?

[Gsey]

only if your building a replica sidewinder to go along with it :-)

Gary

[airsideservicesltd.]

Five young arab chaps have been visiting our establishment for some time now. Never bothered with learning the landing side of things though.

[Westozy]

Five young arab chaps have been visiting our establishment for some time now. Never bothered with learning the landing side of things though.

LOL, beat me too it! It had to come from an Aussie;)

[Tomlin]

Five young arab chaps have been visiting our establishment for some time now. Never bothered with learning the landing side of things though.

THAT's the kind of stuff that should be checked into.

Joe, Yes I know your line of work (and sorry for the misspelling of 'warrant', I was in a hurry guy!) and I have LOTS of contacts in LE, government, and a close friend who's an ATF agent. Yes, I realize what's going on. But as jabomeister said, this seems to be a bit of overstepping. Dont get confused- I totally support the war, and certainly anything anti-terror. I just think that post-911 frenzy has been used inappropriately. Your work at the airport is certainly appreciated, and Im glad that you are fortunate enough to have been given only 1 order in the case you mention. Too bad that's not the case for our borders when the Mexican army comes across escorting illegals.

Anyhow, this thread is creeping into political, and Im sorry if it's a violation of any forum rules. I just dont like seeing where the honest citizen is watched when the powers that be have all the info that they do at their disposal.

To those working to keep the honest person safe- keep up the Good work!

[David Rogers]

No to "normal" people we look like fruits!:D You should see peoples expressions when I say what my hobby is but that does not compare to when I show them the cockpit.... Hmm is that a guy in a white coat at my door? Nice jacket he has there for me, but why are the arms so long?:shock::?:

I get exactly the same reaction Bob!

....especially at work. I made the mistake of telling a a colleague at work about it, and now I get a lot of ribbing! "have a nice weekend, you going anywhere or just sitting in your cockpit all weekend?" ..... :oops:

It's all good fun though.



Ps must have a uk builders meetup sometime!

Steve:roll:

That would be good !

:D

[Geremy Britton]

Ps must have a uk builders meetup sometime!

Steve:roll:

I won't object to that! Sharing expertise would be great.

[DAL900]

Joe, Yes I know your line of work (and sorry for the misspelling of 'warrant', I was in a hurry guy!)


Joe.....who is Joe..... Not me. DAL900 is Chuck ( offical "warrant" spell checker, you were not the only one misspelling it :P)

[David Rogers]

Just as a general point, and not trying to act as the nanny but we should appreciate that this is a sensitive subject, where people tend to sit fairly far to one side or the other of the viewpoint. There are lot's of personal factors and life experience that lead someone to hold their certain beliefs on things like this.

We should all show that we're a top gang of blokes (and gals) around here by respecting that other people do not necessarily see the world the same way that we might.

One person may say "Is is really a big deal.... I'd welcome the Police here", but the fact is that to some people things like this ARE a big deal..... they're not just the same as you, but being petty :) ...... everyone has different experiences. I'll be candid and tell you that I had a negative experience with the Police in my area of the UK, it was pretty awful and I would point out that it was not related to my doing anything wrong or illegal in any form ! ........it was more down to bad practices and a lack of insight by the Police. But it did change my outlook, not that I hate all Police or anything silly like that, I simply reserve my right not to have close dealings and contact with the Police, and while I am a law abiding citizen, I expect to be able to exercise that right !

Of course same goes the other way - if you work hard in Law Enforcement and are a decent cop who respects people and doesn't see their position as a power trip, you are entitled to your beliefs and to personally think there is nothing uncomfortable, invasive, or frightening about having the Police turn up to see your home cockpit. Works both ways.

Let's remember that these things can explode quite easily, and hopefully avoid insulting eachother ..........

.......let's also remember that there may (and most likely are) people of Arab origin that partake in this forum, and I personally think the coment about the Arabs learning to fly was a little close to being offensive.

I hate political correctness gone mad too, but would everyone around here be happy with off the cuff jokes about "Arrogant, loud yanks", "stuck up pompous British", "thick Irish (and Canadian)" and "Australian criminals"!)" ....... let's not forget "greasy mexicans and Italians" and "Smelly Frogs (French!)" .......

Before I get virtually lynched, the point I'm making is that stereotypes exist for all races and nationalities but they are usually untrue, or at the very least apply to the minority.

I really hate the expression "Just my 2 cents", so instead I'll say "Just one persons view" !

:)

[Matt Olieman]

Before I get virtually lynched, the point I'm making is that stereotypes exist for all races and nationalities but they are usually untrue, or at the very least apply to the minority.

I really hate the expression "Just my 2 cents", so instead I'll say "Just one persons view" !

:)

David and others, we may not agree on everything, but we all agree on one thing, WE LOVE FLIGHT SIM-ING :) And that's why we're here :) :) :)

[David Rogers]

David and others, we may not agree on everything, but we all agree on one thing, WE LOVE FLIGHT SIM-ING :) And that's why we're here :) :) :)

EXACTLY !

:mrgreen:

[ivar hestnes]

David and others, we may not agree on everything, but we all agree on one thing, WE LOVE FLIGHT SIM-ING :) And that's why we're here :) :) :)


Thats absolute right:)

And if we have bad intensions, it would probably be very stupid to register here since the gov is "sneaking" around:D

[BHawthorne]

Very interesting read. I'm happy the powers that be are trying to pursue every potential lead possible to keep me safe. Sure, this isn't the average run of the mill hobby, but then again average hobbies are boring. Besides, I love computer gaming. :)