Sol7 (ImmersaView) Commitment to supporting this community

[andyb]

Thanks everyone so far for all the comments and interest in Sol7. This forum has had some great responses which I hope has generated some good news for all!

Today we've had a number of internal discussions which I thought would be valuable to share with everyone before any 'official' announcement. Our aim here is to try and ensure we meet expectations before settling on a official position.

We're potentially opening up a Pandora's box by listing our thoughts, but we have tried to strike a balance between all factors!

Our current thoughts are ....
- provide a home-sim (non-commercial) version of Sol7
- add support for TH2Go and horizontal span mode
- software would be licensed on a per PC model, so a number of projectors can be run from one PC.
- pricing would be in the region of 350-400 USD per PC with one full year of email support as well as immediate access to all minor and major upgrades
- optional upgrades and support beyond the first year at $50 per annum to stay up to date with current versions

I look forward to hearing responses and please feel free to respond via email if preferred. I hope this shows our commitment to supporting this community and aiding with visual set-ups with the use of Sol7. :D

[AndyT]

Wow. At that level of pricing I might even consider using this for my new sim!
Now I just need to find projectors in a reasonable price range.

[sbecker777]

Andy,
this is great news for the community! I feel glad to have brought Sol7 to the attention of the home flight simulation community as well as bringing the opportunity in the home sim market to the attention of Immersaview.

I hope with the new features, new pricing and new market, everyone will benefit! This is truly one of the advantages of being part of a community.

Steve

[Melnato]

:cool: Thanks Andy! Definitely good news for the credit card...

[BHawthorne]

- provide a home-sim (non-commercial) version of Sol7
- add support for TH2Go and horizontal span mode
- software would be licensed on a per PC model, so a number of projectors can be run from one PC.
- pricing would be in the region of 350-400 USD per PC with one full year of email support as well as immediate access to all minor and major upgrades
- optional upgrades and support beyond the first year at $50 per annum to stay up to date with current versions


Well, you've got my purchase as soon as this is finalized. It addresses all my immediate needs. :D

[Matt Olieman]

Fantastic news AndyB, you've definately got me as a customer :) :) :)

[Tomlin]

Andy- thank you for working with and for the community- it is my sincere hope that you benefit greatly from this, as there has always been a need to address this and it appears that now a solution is finally at hand, and for a very reasonable cost.

Thanks again

[Jackpilot]

Anxiously waiting and ready to invest...major news!

[GSalden]

Great news !

Spread it on :D

[Tomlin]

So, to sum it all up,

I think that we have determined that this is our solution to:

*Use curved screens to project our external views onto without the inherited issues of warping and side-speed issues.

*Future Tripple Head 2 Go integration

*There is a software solution to forego the TH2G

Please feel free to add on to this, or to make a summary, if you guys care to.

[ivar hestnes]

Wow

Sounds like christmas can be very early this year:)

This is exellent news.

This will sure help alot of people around the globe including me:)

[737NUT]

Wow. At that level of pricing I might even consider using this for my new sim!
Now I just need to find projectors in a reasonable price range.


I just bought the Optoma 32HD(or70HD), 688.00 Hands down per several magazines and my personal seeing it, BEST buy for 07,08!!!!!!!!!!!!


Count me in as a future buyer!! :)

[Goose]

andyb:
Great news. :)

[a340-th]

- add support for TH2Go and horizontal span mode
- software would be licensed on a per PC model, so a number of projectors can be run from one PC.
- pricing would be in the region of 350-400 USD per PC with one full year of email support as well as immediate access to all minor and major upgrades
- optional upgrades and support beyond the first year at $50 per annum to stay up to date with current versions

:D

With this I will be a definite customer !

Erhard in Thailand

[Trevor Hale]

Hi Andy,

Even with my single Projector Curved setup, I feel that Sol7 may be able to help me achieve better visuals.

Perhaps I should try the demo and see where it benefits. This is more the Pricing that we as home builders would be able to budget for.

Great work, and I am eager to see the product in action.

Trev

[Don]

Just wondering if anyone has got Sol7 demo working with fs9?

I can get it working with other applications, but not fs9!

I talked with Andy, and his testing was on fsX, so just wondering if any gurus out there have done the trick.

Don

[Matt Olieman]

I tested Sol7 with FS9 and it was flawless :) Quite exciting to see it worked so well!!!

[andyb]

Hopefully not a dumb question, but is there a difference between FS9 and FS2004??

Just to clarify that we've tested Sol7 with 2004 and X with no problems.

[Philb737]

Hi Andy,
FS9 is MS Flight sim 2004;).

[Don]

Sorry Andy

I reloaded fs9, and now no problems.

It is possible that that the shortcut that I was launching fs9 from was a shortcut to "safe mode"

Just to let everyone know, that I rang Andy about my problem, and his support on the phone was great, even though I have not yet purchased his software.
Says a lot for this Company.

I am sure that this software will be of great advantage to sim builders worldwide, and with this sort of support, it really is a winner.

Don

[AndyT]

To expand a bit on what Phill said....

Microsoft labels the product by the year it came out. MS Flight Sim 2004 is the 9th version of the sim, so that's what we normally call it. With FSX they changed and are now calling it 'Ten' (Roman 'X').

[alaxus]

I am in.
And to support a aussie company as well, gotta be good.:D

[Darryl]

Yes, count me in as well.

Darryl

[Tomlin]

So Matt- I have the feeling that now all the hard work you put into building a curved screen can actually be put to some use? Give us some feedback on your thoughts, since you were working so hard on that project before the sim was tore down.

[aviaparts]

TH2GO and Sol7 is the ultimate for us builders, great great news !

[Matt Olieman]

So Matt- I have the feeling that now all the hard work you put into building a curved screen can actually be put to some use? Give us some feedback on your thoughts, since you were working so hard on that project before the sim was tore down.

Anxiously waiting for the final Sol7 product to be announced :) It will work perfectly with my screen setup. Looking forward to it :)

[ivar hestnes]

I am waiting to see your result aswell Matt O. Sure it will be great.

:)

[superconnie]

This is exactly what I was waiting for..... one copy for me please :-)

Christian

[iamcanadian2]

I tried the demo version with FSX. It took me maybe 2-3 minutes to have the curved screen nice and straight no flared edges. I am running with a Q 6600 4gig ram 512 MB geforce. 2 Dlp projectors with the matrox dual head to go.There was no noticable frame rate drop .But switching into stereo mode, it did not work .it messed up the image. I tried a movie with Power DVD and it did not work still had flared edges..So there's my 2 cents worth.
I would buy the software especially if they can solve the stereo issue.

[superconnie]

@canadian

If you read all postings about this matter, you will find that Sol7 is not made for video applications, only for 3D stuff like Flight Simulator or similar. And you would also know that it is currently working with only 1 screen per PC. The multiscreen thing (or maybe stereo too) is something that will come in a future release.... I hope so.

Christian

[Majorfibbs]

Hello

I tested Sol7 thanks to Chris' personal hint. For the time being this is not a solution for my cockpit-setup.

Reasons:
- too expensive (my limit would be 200 $)
- not useful for 1-beamer setup
- not useful for low-resolution beamer (HD-ready or full-HD is recommended)


Regards - Valentin
http://homecockpit.blogspot.com

[737NUT]

Hello

I tested Sol7 thanks to Chris' personal hint. For the time being this is not a solution for my cockpit-setup.

Reasons:
- too expensive (my limit would be 200 $)
- not useful for 1-beamer setup
- not useful for low-resolution beamer (HD-ready or full-HD is recommended)


Regards - Valentin
http://homecockpit.blogspot.com


NICE thing is, REAL HD 'beamers' are as cheap as low res ones now. I just bought a top rated HD projector for 688.95!!!!!!!!! Awesome quality! You can buy 2 of these for what i paid for my Dell2400 3 years ago!! :(

[dcutugno]

NICE thing is, REAL HD 'beamers' are as cheap as low res ones now. I just bought a top rated HD projector for 688.95!!!!!!!!! Awesome quality! You can buy 2 of these for what i paid for my Dell2400 3 years ago!! :(


Ops, i thought the Full HD projector were in 2.5k-5k Euro range. Beware HD ready and Full HD are different!
Only the Full HD proj. are capable of display High resolution, the HD ready only accept signals then they do scaling.

So can you point as which projector you had bought?

[BHawthorne]

NTSC = 720x480
720p = 1280x720
1080p = 1920x1080

I own a few InFocus SP5000's, which are 720p. HD tends to mean merely higher pixel resolution than NTSC. Lots of diff between 720p and 1080p though.

[andyb]

A great resource for finding info on projectors is Projector Central:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/projectors.cfm

They offer a great overview of features as well as pricing (RRP and Street!). Most models offer a throw distance calculator which is really handy for determining screen size.

For those planning to use single projectors on a curved screen, we would certainly recommend using 16:9 aspect ratio projects (720p / 1080p). If you can get it, lens shift is also a very helpful feature.

A couple of weeks back, we installed a single projector display at a local Uni in sunny Queensland, Australia:
YouTube - Curved Display

The video shows a screen approaching a 100 degree horizontal field of view with a 720p projector .... I have one of these at home which works well from one projector:D:D:D

[737NUT]

Look for Optoma HD70 and some were sold as HD32, They are TRUE HD and got voted best bargain/steal for an HD projector by several mags. I have owned CRT's and many projectors and this one is NUTS how good the quality is versus the price. They are 720P but i dare ANY of you to really notice a difference on 98% of material you watch, to see a difference between 720 and 1080. I'll argue it till i die. :)

[Matt Olieman]

Rob, Thanks for the projector info. I'll definitely be looking at those.

I agree with you regarding the difference between the 720 and 1080. My projector is a 720p and if it wasn't for the contrast ratio, you wouldn't be able to tell between the projector and a Plasma 1080i.

[Tomlin]

Hello

I tested Sol7 thanks to Chris' personal hint. For the time being this is not a solution for my cockpit-setup.

Reasons:
- too expensive (my limit would be 200 $)
- not useful for 1-beamer setup
- not useful for low-resolution beamer (HD-ready or full-HD is recommended)


Regards - Valentin
http://homecockpit.blogspot.com

Hi Valentin, my understanding was that this software would be Perfect for those with a single projector, as you can have a single beamer shooting at a big curved screen placed close to your sim and then you would be able to put off needing additional projectors for a while. Andy?

[Matt Olieman]

HD projector for 688.95

Rob, you're talking about the HD70, right? Lowest price I can find is $799. Where did you buy yours? Oh, and the 1000 lumens, you think that's bright enough?

Matt O.

[BHawthorne]

Rob, you're talking about the HD70, right? Lowest price I can find is $799. Where did you buy yours? Oh, and the 1000 lumens, you think that's bright enough?

Matt O.

The InFocus SP5000 is also in that price range. I've seen the consistently around $600-700.

[Majorfibbs]

Hello

I have to admit, I also should have posted the reasons for my opinion. The setup for my test was:
- 1 beamer (Panasonic AE900, HDready / 1280 x 720)
- SOL7 software (demo version)
- projecting distance 2m (7 ft) minimum
- curvature screen only available in very small size (but enough to test)

The goal:
- project a picture with more than 100° f.o.v. = field of view
- check the behaviour on curved surfaces

Here 4 problems I have encountered:

Problem #1:
The normal f.o.v. in the flightsimulator is 45°. Increasing this leads to a very distorted view which could hardly be corrected with SOL7. Especially if additionally projected on a curved surface.

Probelm #2:
within the given distance it is impossible to project a very wide picture. It's the beamer lens which should be "wide angle". SOL7 can not help.

Problem #3:
The resolution of the beamer has to very high, because with SOL7 a lot of the area is chopped off PLUS the picture is interpolated.

Problem #4:
If the curvature radius of the screen is small, then the picture on the left and right is not sharp anymore. The depth of focus tolerance is approx. 0.5m (1.5 ft) with my beamer. Also here, SOL7 does not help, it's the lens again. This is even a killer criteria for me for a multi-beamer setup. If one has a less curvy screen, it will not maybe not visible. But my room-size is limited.

Hope this provides clarification why SOL7 is not meant to work for single-beamer setups or screens with small curvature radius. SOL7 can only un-distort the picture for moderate curved-surfaces at a fairly long projecting distance. It is NOT a "picture widener". At least in my opinion.

Regards - Valentin

[Majorfibbs]

Oh, and the 1000 lumens, you think that's bright enough?


by experience: with 1000 lumen you have to darken the room. My beamer has 1200, but I would like to have 2000 a least.

Regards - V.

[Matt Olieman]

by experience: with 1000 lumen you have to darken the room. My beamer has 1200, but I would like to have 2000 a least.

Regards - V.

Reason I asked, and Rob knows this, I have a NEC LT240 with 2400 lumen and in eco mode, it's about 2000. This to me is about the right brightness. Any more, particularly in a wide curved screen setup, you get white wash :( So I wondered with a higher contrast ratio the effect is worth having a lower lumen projector. And BTW, dark room is ALWAYS better in a sim... :) :)

[Matt Olieman]

Hello

I have to admit, I also should have posted the reasons for my opinion. The setup for my test was:
- 1 beamer (Panasonic AE900, HDready / 1280 x 720)
- SOL7 software (demo version)
- projecting distance 2m (7 ft) minimum
- curvature screen only available in very small size (but enough to test)

The goal:
- project a picture with more than 100° f.o.w. = field of view
- check the behaviour on curved surfaces



Valentin, and AndyB correct me if I'm wrong. The intent of Sol7 is not to stretch the FOV, but to allow a square or rectangular projected picture, that normally is viewed on a flat surface to be adjusted (moving the edges), so it can be viewed on a curved surface, without losing part of the image.

You're right, if you stretch it, it distorts it. I've done that with curved mirrors....

[Majorfibbs]

The intent of Sol7 is not to stretch the FOV, but to allow a square or rectangular projected picture, that normally is viewed on a flat surface to be adjusted (moving the edges), so it can be viewed on a curved surface, without losing part of the image.

You are correct.
For some strange reasons everybody hearing about SOL7 thinks of streching the f.o.v. Including myself and colleagues.

[andyb]

Hi All,

Starting to hit some interesting subjects :D. I'm sure more will follow.

Matt is correct. Sol7 is deigned to remap the image, not to stretch the image. We don't do anything with the field of view (FoV) in the software application, but map the FoV of the image to hit the screen's FoV correctly. This is a confusing subject to describe without pics, so I hope I provide some insight.

There are two different problems when projecting onto a curved screen:
1) distortion correction (taking a planar image and correct it for a curved surface)
2) getting the FoV of the software to match the screen.

We can achieve 1 with Sol7, but 2 has to be done in the software and here is where I understand there to be a limitation in FS settings. For most commercial sims, the software application will give you FoV settings (and generally multiple camera settings for more than one projector/display), so each projector's FoV matches the software's FoV. All of this infomation is really needed to make everything 100% correct. Sol7 can then warp (and edge blend) this info to stitch it all back together correctly so it's visually correct.

Taking the distortion correction issue, Sol7 will remap the image so flat can become curved. When designing a screen, we make sure that the curved surface is the same dimensions as a planar one. So a 130" screen is still the same physical size, just curved towards the user. This is an important factor to note.

And here's where is starts to get interesting again. The radius of curvature of the screen increases the FoV of the display as the edges move closer towards the viewer. Smaller radii will give more immersion (and FoV) but will effect the focal characteristics and the amount of warping.

So here there are other considerations which include:
1) the focal range of the projector (too much curving will cause focus issues)
2) the throw distance of the projector (a large throw distance will cause image shadowing when the viewer sits in the center of the screen).
3) as Sol7 remaps the image, the larger the curvature, the more pixels that are lost.

We have found that it's possible to go from a planar screen (approx 80 deg FoV) to 100 degs FoV when curved. So in my opinion (I have a single projector onto a curved screen sitting next to me as I type) there is quite a considerable benefit from going single flat, to single curved.

The software settings in FS though are something I'm not familiar with. I run 2004 and X (Demo) without changing any visual settings and the info looks visually correct.

I think the real key when testing on a screen, is to take the same screen size as a flat setup and curve it, rather than making a screen with a new aspect ratio as that will certainly cause all sorts of visual problems.

Once we get TH2Go implemented, we'll work on posting some of this information (with pics) on our website to describe this interesting area in more detail.

Hope this helps.

[BHawthorne]

Interesting stuff. Good to hear the bit about TH2G work. :)

[Kris Stow]

Our current thoughts are ....
- provide a home-sim (non-commercial) version of Sol7
- add support for TH2Go and horizontal span mode
- software would be licensed on a per PC model, so a number of projectors can be run from one PC.
- pricing would be in the region of 350-400 USD per PC with one full year of email support as well as immediate access to all minor and major upgrades
- optional upgrades and support beyond the first year at $50 per annum to stay up to date with current versions

AndyB,

After reading and trying to understand just what it is that you have created, I have come to the conclusion that you have a made a remarkable product for the flight simulation community. I like you am new to the whole idea of building a personal flight simulator and the items and software needed in production.

I think your pricing is spot on. The fact that your willing to add/change your software to incorporate TH2GO for the home cockpit builder, and the idea of having free support for a year is another picture of just how your company operates in a professional manner. I believe we will see more great things come from you guys in the future; now understanding just how big the population is in flight simulation.

I wish you all the best with the flight sim community. I promise you, you will not be disappointed and will have many customers in the gates awaiting its arrival.

Please once the "Home Sim" Sol7 version is available for download and key purchasing, please remember to post it.. haha

Do you know if your company will be accepting paypal?

Again thanks and have a wonderful week ahead.

[Kris Stow]

Probelm #2:
within the given distance it is impossible to project a very wide picture. It's the beamer lens which should be "wide angle". SOL7 can not help.


Please see this thread from FDS forum dated 2005. Would this possibly help for your FOV thought?

Agian Im new to all of this so excuse the ignorance.. haha. Just trying to help. All the best!!


http://www.flightdecksolutions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1251&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

[jmig]

This looks promising. I am interested.

[superconnie]

Please see this thread from FDS forum dated 2005. Would this possibly help for your FOV thought?

Agian Im new to all of this so excuse the ignorance.. haha. Just trying to help. All the best!!


http://www.flightdecksolutions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1251&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

I checked the pictures in that forum and it looks great. I thought the FS can only be set to a maximum FOV of 45deg.... on the pictures it looks like much more.
Stupid question... can you do that with Wideview or how do you set your FOV to such a panorama???

Christian

[Kris Stow]

Stupid question... can you do that with Wideview or how do you set your FOV to such a panorama???

Christian

Christian,

Well I took it to the next level using Dualhead2go. If you go to my site on the "Visuals" page you will see how Im setting it up.

When throwing the view onto curved mirrors, then reflecting to the Sintra foam board is how is projects almost 3 times greater without distortion. So with that said if you use dual projectors and mirrors should be able to span 180 degrees FOV. You could almost make the visuals better quaility by using TH2GO and 3 projectors.

If any one has any comments on to how Sol7 can help with this idea please explain. At this time I'm still not 100% on what it does for our FS visuals.

Thanks and have a great day.

[Matt Olieman]

When WARVET posted http://www.flightdecksolutions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1251&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
I thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Ran out and got a mirror, but learned fast.

First you've got to have a mirror where the mirror surface is up front (can't think what the name of that is right now), otherwise you would get a ghosting image. Second, when you curve the mirror, you stretch the image, squares become rectangles..... to me that's distortion.

I've done this, I even show on my site how I did this. It doesn't take much of a curve of the mirror to stretch the image.

Finally, the explanation of SOL7, please read post #48. AndyB explains what SOL7 can do for you, it's not about stretching the image.

[Kris Stow]

MattO,

Thanks for the quick response. I will def. look into post #48 reguarding Sol7 from AndyB.

So after setting up Tim's idea from 2005 it turned out to be no good at all. Would it possibly work for a dual projector setup? What would you recommend for achiving a 180 FOV in a 9ft by 9ft room.

Sorry just beginning to learn about the outside visuals, and a early thanks for the input.

[Matt Olieman]

Bouncing off of mirrors are the way to go. My first experience with bouncing off of a mirror, I used a mylar mirror, it came from an old rear projection tv. Sol7 will do the rest, you'll see what I mean once you read #48.

[Kris Stow]

Bouncing off of mirrors are the way to go.


So then using the curved mirrors are a good idea or bad due to causing distortion?
(Still reading about Sol7)

[Matt Olieman]

Bad if you curve them (distortion).... Good if you don't and bounce them because of space. Projector to Mirror, Mirror to screen, can shorten your throw distance by half.

[Kris Stow]

Bad if you curve them (distortion).... Good if you don't and bounce them because of space. Projector to Mirror, Mirror to screen, can shorten your throw distance by half.

Sol7 is starting to make more sense!! Looks like it will be 3 flat mirrors and 3 projectors on TH2GO from now on. Thanks for the help, also do you have any pictures you could send over for setting this up, if so kstow26@gmail.com is my email.

I have seen some take certain cloth and staple it to the cockpit viewing windws and shoot from the projectors onto the mirrors then directly from the mirrors to the cloth from behind (shooting at the sim), was i seeing this correcly?

So basiclly projector over head of cockpit then on to mirror (pointing down to sim) then shooting back on to cloth stapled onto sim windows.

Thanks Again

[Tomlin]

Kris, take a moment to view this thread listed below here and also to visit Nic's website. It should explain everything you need to understand. Then apply the Sol7 software to make the corrections to enhance the whole experience.

Between using the TG2Go, mirrors to shorten the throw for our small rooms, and Sol7 to fix any distortion, we have a really good solution for home sim visuals.

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11020

[andyb]

Just to add to one of my previous posts (#46) about distortion and what Sol7 does, we've added a couple of white papers on our site which hopefully described some of the topics involved with curved screen displays:

http://immersaview.com/whitepapers.html

[superconnie]

One thing is still not clear to me. Let's assume I found a way to cover a 180deg FOV with one projector (I have not... so don't ask). How do I tell MS-Flightsimulator to create a 180 deg view?
Is that possible? What is the maximum angle? Where is this setting? Which file to edit?

Christian

[andyb]

This is a great question!

Anyone have answers to this one?

[Matt Olieman]

You can't, most you can get out of one window is 105 degrees. Unless you do multiple windows.

Matt O.

[ivar hestnes]

Please take look at this thread

http://www.flightdecksolutions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3271

It is a way to do it:)

Maybe a little tricky, but still possible.

[Matt Olieman]

I don't think it's an actual 180 degree view. You might have a 180 degree screen.

[Matt Olieman]

I just got an e-mail from my fellow builder friend David C. Allen, I'm sure you know him :) He's much smarter then I am..... :) This is what he said:
-------------------------------------------------------------
If you use FOV = 2 x ArcTan (Image Width X 0.5 / Viewing Distance).
Per Steve Becker FOV.xls. If you used a zoom factor of 0.3055, or
(55/180) or 0.31, which just HAPPENS to be the lowest zoom in FS, you
would be at 180 degrees

MSFS can generate it, it's just hard to view it without a curved screen.
----------------------------------------------------------

I think he right, what do you say?
Matt O.

[superconnie]

Ok... I see... 105deg... 180deg... 2x90deg...but there is still this question:

Where in the MSFS do you set the FOV value??? Where do I have to edit ? Where do I have to change settings?

Christian

[Matt Olieman]

If you're asking where in the config, I don't know. What I do, is using the "+" or "-" keys, save my settings and it's done. Maybe I misunderstood the question..... :)

[superconnie]

I think my question is too basic :-) You know, I may have a great cockpit project but when it comes to the software I am an absolute beginner. I hardly know some keyboard commands.... Everything I managed to do was to assign all kind of buttons and joysticks.

You press the "+" and "-" buttons where...? In the settings of the MSFS? (I have FS9...)

Christian

[ivar hestnes]

You enter this via the keyboard Christian.

In FS9 it is "-" to zoom out and the "backspace" key to zoom in.

:)

[superconnie]

That's my problem... if it is too easy, I don't get it ;-)

I will try that....

[Tim]

It will be good to see this working with FSX.

Since MS as elected to not allow quarter or side views, without seeing the 3d virtual panels, it appears this could be the only way to have extended front visuals in FSX.

[superconnie]

Either I am too stupid or too smart.... If I press the "+" only an additional top view window appears.... does not change the angle of view at all.

How do you change the FOV, guys??? HELP!!! Pleeeease... ;-)


Christian

[Matt Olieman]

Shift +

Not the Num keys.

Matt O.

[superconnie]

I think we are talking about different things... or the keys are different on a german keyboard.

I'd like to change the angle of view of THIS:
(I'd like to see the runway edge etc...)

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/9113/dscn6631mq8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Matt Olieman]

Oops, sorry, not reading your question :oops:

Num Lock off, use the outer keys for views. Such as 6 is 3 O'clock, 4 is 9 O'clock, etc.

Matt O.

[superconnie]

Still not what I mean... I'm not talking about switching views, I want to enlarge the viewing area of the front view...about like this:

The idea is that if I want to use a wider screen, I need to adjust the scenery. Assume I had a 180deg screen, it makes no sense to see a 10 mile wide runway when I turn my head.


http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/8281/viewoj6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/7025/viewwa0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Kris Stow]

Christian,

Try this go into your viewing options on FSX and set the zoom factor if the "+" and "-" on your keyboard is not work.

Another thing to try is where you set up your keyboard commands, make sure your zooms are set to a key you assign might make it easier for you.

Good Luck, hope this helps

[superconnie]

I have FS9.... is it possible that in this version you can't change the viewing angle?

[Kris Stow]

Oh sorry I have been in FSX code for a couple of days now.. It should be the same for FS9 just locate where you are able to set your keyboard commands in the options section for the "Zoom" function and change it to a key that is suitable for you. Let us know if it works. Don't see a reason it should not.

[Matt Olieman]

I was right on track the first time. And I don't think you mean angle, you want a wider view. I'm assuming this on the pics you drew. If so, then we're back to what Ivar and I said. Mine is slightly different.

I'm sitting in front of my FS9 and able to do the following:

Hold down the shift key and at the same time press the + to narrow the FOV, to "WIDEN" the view (as I think you are requesting), Hold down the shift key and at the same time press the - key. This will bring you back all the way to 31%

This way, you will see the objects on your right and left side of the aircraft.

Are we together on the right track? :)

BTW Ivar, backspace just brings you back to 100%

Matt O.

[Kris Stow]

MattO,

The german keyboard is set up differently than the American style don't ask my why but have seen it. Not pretty.. lol I think his original statement of changing the view angle was just miss understood. I think that Christian is just trying to change the zoom factor.

So in this case he must input his own keyboard command to make this work for his keyboard, after changing should be good to go..

I know in FSX you can change your seating position by using the shift+enter key and also the shift+enter+backspace commands is this also good for FS9?

[Kris Stow]

Christian,

If you don't want to use the zoom factor there is another way. To see more of the outside visuals, try changing the resolution on your computer desktop and in FS9 to the same as desktop something like 1280x1024 (if video card can except). Also you could set up using multi-monitors and the use of the TH2GO and set your resolution to a higher number. Just a quick thought. Plus you might like it better I sure did and esp. after I purchased my 3 projectors.

[Matt Olieman]

Ahhhh, zoom factor, the proper terminology :) :)

Shift + backspace, moving view in steps up in fs9.

I agree, zoom factor is what he wants, I'm curious to find out if his keyboard setup does make a difference from the U.S. version. I may learn something new :)

Matt O.

[Kris Stow]

MattO,

Im thinking Microsoft only created for the US keyboard. Im afraid for the keyboard commands to properly work, Christian will have to setup all his own commands in the FS9 keyboard settings.

[superconnie]

STUPID ME...! I have an US keyboard but Windows was set to german.:roll: No wonder nothing worked.
A "+" is a "+" but it is located on a different key, the function remains the same.

Thanks guys... Funny thing is that zooming is not in the keyboard assignments list.

Christian

[simyoke]

1) the focal range of the projector (too much curving will cause focus issues)


I guess the above problem will affect my tentative screen setup. Is there a way to get around this focal-range problem?

I am trying to setup a cylindrical screen with the radius of about 2.4 meters with each projector throwing an outside visual while making the angle of 60 degrees with adjacent projectors on either side; I set the +/-60 degrees for side views with the zoom factor of 0.52 with WideView.

[simyoke]

I guess the above problem will affect my tentative screen setup. Is there a way to get around this focal-range problem?

I am trying to setup a cylindrical screen with the radius of about 2.4 meters with each projector throwing an outside visual while making the angle of 60 degrees with adjacent projectors on either side; I set the +/-60 degrees for side views with the zoom factor of 0.52 with WideView.


A simple calcuation yields the max difference of 0.7m between the two edges on either side and the midpoint of one screen section that covers 60 degrees for the 2.4 m radii-screen setup. I am wondering how much effect this distance difference would have on the image quality.

[Swiss1673]

Our current thoughts are ....
.....
- add support for TH2Go and horizontal span mode


Have somebody News about that? Long time ago and still interested;)

Daniel

[Melnato]

Have somebody News about that? Long time ago and still interested:wink:Daniel...its done. I've been running Sol7 with TH2Go for months now...

1374
Click to enlarge

Nat

[GDR]

Hi Nat,

We don't only meet on the FDS forum, but also here. :)

What do you think is the best to go with? TH2Go Digital or analog. I'm thinking of using the Sol7 software as well.
(I have a 180° bow-window in the cellar where I'm building the cockpit. http://flightsim737.dyndns.org:8081/FlightSim/Images/IMG_3128.JPG)

I'm a bit confused, since some posts are contradictory. One says it's no good to use the digital, and others are ok with it.

I'm still in the stage where I have to make up my mind on the projectors as well. So, everything is still possible here to either go analog or digital.

By the way, Do you use the 4:3 or the 16:9 setup?

Thanks,
Geert
http://flightsim737.dyndns.org:8081

[Melnato]

Geert that wall looks perfect!

I have a digital version ...I don't know why anyone would want analogue version.

Digital version has DVI outputs and more resolutions...

I'm running 16:10...3840X800 on a screen 7m X 1.5m:cool:

Nat
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3097/3194140896_244ac54f52_o.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3448/3194140726_28689c497c_o.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3341/3194140806_6d00dbe3ba_o.jpg

[Tomlin]

My, oh my. Nat, that looks incredible. What projectors are you running in conjunction with the Sol7 and digital TH2Go?

[Matt Olieman]

My, oh my. Nat, that looks incredible. What projectors are you running in conjunction with the Sol7 and digital TH2Go?

I agree with Eric, this is fantastic Nat, thanks for the pics. WOW!!!!

Matt Olieman

[BHawthorne]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3097/3194140896_244ac54f52_o.jpg

:shock::shock::shock: Wow!

This is the screen setup I want to do. Could you give us detailed information about the physical layout and critical measurements for this design? i want to do something very simular to this with PVC piping.

[Jackpilot]

Please YES...
A tutorial!!!

[Adino]

wauuw ...I just got a supersonic thrill.....this thing rocks man!!!:cool:
Please make some time to start writing down...:mad: you own us a tutorial!!!!...sorry men you did this to yourself...:D
Greta stuff NAT, really impresive..

[BHawthorne]

My projectors are 720p, so I'd have to push 3840x720 with the TH2G.

[Bob Reed]

Is this rear projection? I would love to see pictures of how the screens look and are built. What type of material you are using ext... WOW!!!!!!

[Melnato]

Don't think its worthy of a tutorial, but here's some more pics. and and brief explanation...

I made four timber stands from 3"x"2 pine, secured them to a heavy timber base with steel brackets(six stands would be better).

Then I screwed 3 sheets of 3mm MDF to the stands (2.4mX1.5m each)
This stuffs really likes to bend, so i just positioned stands to form a nice curve of about 2.5m radius.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3415/3196086904_ef431d1d59_b.jpg

Pre Sol7 shot:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3480/3196089198_b15863a4d3_b.jpg
Initially i tried to "plaster" the joins, but they were still noitcble so I purchased some thick 100% cotton curtain liner..1.5m wide...what a fluke.

I simply stretched that over the existing screen using white tacs(pins with a dome head)


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3486/3193295253_431a53c7af_o.jpg

Projectors...BenQ MP730 WXGA...top value and performance:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3388/3195243709_85c8fdaffa_b.jpg

That's it:)

Nat

[BHawthorne]

Definitely info I was looking for. You might not think it merited documentation, but I know I appreciate it a lot. :D

On the seams, did the material sufficiently hide those areas? I'm looking to get a long roll of 4ft wide screen material custom ordered off of ebay to go seamless that way. I have stacks of 4x8ft 1/8" masonite packing material laying around. I was going to use that for simpit skinning, but looks like it would work good in this case too once I have screen material over it.

$1 all I could haul of masonite scrap:
http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/1778/004ak6.jpg

[Tomlin]

Definitely info I was looking for. You might not think it merited documentation, but I know I appreciate it a lot. :D

On the seams, did the material sufficiently hide those areas? I'm looking to get a long roll of 4ft wide screen material custom ordered off of ebay to go seamless that way. I have stacks of 4x8ft 1/8" masonite packing material laying around. I was going to use that for simpit skinning, but looks like it would work good in this case too once I have screen material over it.

$1 all I could haul of masonite scrap:
http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/1778/004ak6.jpg

Or if you want to get perfect brand new Masonite, just pick it up from Lowe's for about $7 a sheet! That's what I made my screen out of and I was going to use the 'Blackwidow' paint method, but I really like how Nat and others (wasnt it you Matt?) that found shower curtain works a treat for some visuals.

[GDR]

Hi Nat,

Thanks. What we're all looking for. Great screen by the way!
Like the cotton approach. But, I was some time ago at an exibition where they were projecting on painted MDF with crystal paint. I'll think I'l have a go with that to test on a piece of MDF or has anyone already taken that road.

By the way, on what distances did you put your projectors? Don't say that I'm a bit curious, but A LOT! :D (I'll have a radius of 380cm myself to cover...)

[BHawthorne]

I still think this is very cool for a screen design. I had thought going through my mind of $1000 screen budgets to pull things off right. I guess we can pull off immersive seamelss cost effectively. :)

[Melnato]

My original MDF screen was painted with 'BlackWidow", I posted some comparisons last year.

The material i have covered that with is so thick, its 100% light blockout curtain backer, it actually feels like vinyl,
Dont get confused with a bed sheet....this is completely different.

I am thinking of painting this new screen with black-widow again. I'll let you know how that goes...

Nat

[Jackpilot]

Nat

A Tutorial would be great not really for the screen but about the way to properly display those 3 views, pitfalls to avoid, what to do first, we have MSFS network, 3 Projectors, Sol7, TH2Go, ie Hardware and Software to put together in a proper way so that it works.

I understand that it takes time and you already did a lot on the subject but we will appreciate any bit of info that could save us time and mistakes....

Thank you for the superb pictures.

[NicD]

We recently painted our screens with black-widow and we're very pleased with the results (all front projection now and no mirrors). Better color depth and contrast, and nice blacks. Got some good tips off the forum here for that - thanks to those who experimented with it first (Brian, Nat etc).

[Lambis777]

First a big thanks to all for the great infos about this issue.
Nat your setup is absolute perfect.

So we build a cylindrical screen 180 degree
we use the TH2G and send the fs view to the projectors
and finally run the sol7 to give us the perfect warp around 180 screen.

But the question is How the fs9 or the fsx can give us FOV of 180 degree?

As far as i know the smallest zoom factor in the fs9 and the fsx is 0,30 and this i think is give us FOV of the 107 degrees.

The best to project 180 degrees FOV from Fs to 180 screen.
And not 107 degrees FOV from Fs to 180 screen.

Exist any way ? (without re-create 3 separate views or use wideview)
Can someone have solution to this?

Sorry for my poor English.

Lambis

[Melnato]

Lambis,

I think NicD's method (multiple windows) is the only way to get 180 FOV.

I tried, but the frame rates were too low for my liking.

I'm using the wide forward view, zoomed out to about 0.8 and it results in
about 140-150 FOV....quite satisfactory. Remember when you have the TH2Go,
your forward view will 3 times as wide..in my case...3840X800, almost
equivalent to "forward-left...forward and forward-right" in FS9/X.

Nat

[Lambis777]

Nat

Yes i have try it too with the multiple views like NicD`s method but this gives me 13 -15 FPS.
This is unacceptable.

I'm using the wide forward view, zoomed out to about 0.8 and it results in
about 140-150 FOV....quite satisfactory. Remember when you have the TH2Go,
your forward view will 3 times as wide..in my case...3840X800, almost
equivalent to "forward-left...forward and forward-right" in FS9/X.

You say the fs can give you FOV 150 degrees ?
This happen only if the TH2G is attached?
Because the fs with the smallest zoom 0,30 can give only 107 FOV no more.

Please can you explain because i don`t understand how you do it this?
Is something more that can do the TH2G?
I don`t have the TH2G to make tests.

Lambis

[brynjames]

Lambis

I agree with your numbers - I measure FOV at close to 107 degrees at max zoom out in VC, using a TH2GO at 3840x1024. Same results in the 2D cockpit.

Perhaps Nat could tell us more about his set-up, and how he is measuring 150. Maybe the 3840x800 is what is making the difference. I have the analogue TH2GO here, and that is not one of the offered resolutions available, so I can't measure with that resolution on my system.

--
Bryn

[tasmanet]

I have started a new Thread on 180deg FOV

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14744

[Melnato]

OK, maybe im getting old. That 150 FOV may have stuck in my head when i was playing with TH2go and zooms.

At 0.8 zoom, It looks like i get 'about' 120FOV...it feels like more when you're flying though...go figure.

Here's some Screen Caps to show what Im seeing(this is in windowed mode, so Sol7 isn't taking effect ...before anyone asks;))

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3487/3205024327_3f4bfba0f1_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3082/3205026087_c826375879_o.jpg

Before you get tempted top zoom out anymore...the images start to distort
at the outer extremes of the screen when zooming out to far...

Nat

[alaxus]

Lambis


Perhaps Nat could tell us more about his set-up, and how he is measuring 150. Maybe the 3840x800 is what is making the difference. I have the analogue TH2GO here, and that is not one of the offered resolutions available, so I can't measure with that resolution on my system.

--
Bryn
The projectors that Nat is using is native wxga 1280*800 not 1024*768 of the xga ones. Its one of the few wxga projectors out there which would give him the extra FOV.

[brynjames]

Thanks for the excellent screenshots Nat, you are certainly getting much wider FOV with the widescreen monitors than I get with the standard 4:3 (actually 5:4) monitors. Interesting too to note that the FOV over one of the outer monitors is only about half the FOV of the centre monitor, confirming that the FS display is drawn as if displayed on a single flat screen, rather than a circular screen centred on the observer. This means that the geometrically "correct" way to view the standard TH2GO output is with all three screens in a straight line, and not with the outer screens angled in to the observer as many of us have them. Nic in Tasmania gets over this by using multiple contiguous window views. -- Bryn

[struisje]

Something I stumbled on today. Looks really good.
I haven't found anything about the pricetag though.

http://www.openwarp.com/images/vt_1.jpg

http://www.openwarp.com

[Matt Olieman]

Something I stumbled on today. Looks really good.
I haven't found anything about the pricetag though.

http://www.openwarp.com/images/vt_1.jpg

http://www.openwarp.com

And..... with TH2Go and Sol7 you can accomplish this magnificent projection :) :) :)

Matt Olieman

[BHawthorne]

Something I stumbled on today. Looks really good.
I haven't found anything about the pricetag though.

http://www.openwarp.com

That doesn't look all that "open" to me. It looks expensive, hardware specific and proprietary... :lol:

Open is typically used in a name to designate it was an open source or freeware app. That looks about the opposite of open source. :wink:

Besides, you can do that exact same screen setup with Sol7.

[Melnato]

Quick question for anyone with Sol7...

Does anyone have Sol7 running on a 64bit operating system(XP, Vista, W7)?

Thanks,

Nat

[voucher76]

I am wondering whats the most Field of view you can get with the SOL7 software and 1 projector.
My budget will only stretch to one budget projector.

Regards

Rhys

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but SOL7 will NOT increase your FOV, it will "only" correct the distortion that will occur, when projecting onto a curved screen.

Best regards

[Matt Olieman]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but SOL7 will NOT increase your FOV, it will "only" correct the distortion that will occur, when projecting onto a curved screen.

Best regards

You're correct.

Matt Olieman

[pdg_737]

Hi all,

If you want to see how Sol 7 is performing in my home cockpit, take a view in the photo gallery. You can find pictures in the members section at PDG_737. Album is called: building a fllightdeck 737. Pictures no 9, 10 and 30 show the setup and the results.

I have a 7.5 ft curved screen (aluminium and cheap foamboard) and a wide throw projector at a distance of 7 ft from center screen.

PDG_737

[Jackpilot]

Looks really good.
What are the specs of your projector
Jack

[Melnato]

bump...sorry


Does anyone have Sol7 running on a 64bit operating system(XP, Vista, W7)?

Nat

[pdg_737]

Specs projector: DLP, native 1078x768, 2500 ansi lumens, contrast 1:2500 and most important: a throww ratio of 0.6 : 1. So for a 10 ft wide image you need 6 ft distance between projector and screen. Perfect for a small space.
More details on the optoma website under EX525ST.

PDG_737

[Efe Cem Elci]

We have decided to go with ImmersaView's Sol7 for visuals over three projectors for the sim.

[Photon]

I have just found out that our local Police Air Wing are using Sol7 to project onto a 40 foot (wide?) screen for their training purposes. No other info and definitely no pictures allowed at this stage. Mate of mine and BIG sim builder saw it in action.

Peter.

[hyway]

Hi Guys,
I had a meeting yesterday in Sydney with Andy and Alex from Immersaview the makers of SOL7.
They were installing a 180deg setup on a commercial simulator at a flying school, I was very impressed with the whole SOL7 concept. and ordered the Software on the spot.
This is such a great deal, that I am sure it will not last. This software is a massive discount on the comercial product that these guys sell, so if you want it or are thinking of getting, I would do it it now.
I will be installing a 3 projector setup on my sim in the next 6 months (very hard with full motion) using the SOL7 software.
As I said guys, "if it looks to good to be true" go and get it now, so we can all support Immersaview to keep developing this great software for the Homebuilders.

[farrokh747]

Hi Matt - yes, the product is great - i just have to decide between THTG and Wideview - looks like it's going to be WV - I guess this means 3 x installation licenses...!

Just ordered 3 projectors = Hitachi CPX5 's - these have a slightly wider throw than the standard -

Cheers

fc

[MarkusPilot_com]

Tried various ways to get the visuals going.

The new sim room in in my garage = 2.7m x 4.1m
Plenty of width ( 4.1m ) but short in length ( 2.7m )

The solution for me ( not necessarily for you ) was short throw projectors.

Tried the flat screens - good but could do better.:)
Curved Screens - fantastic in size but image really is distorted.:(

Enter SOL7 .. problem fixed.
Fantastic result - now I have almost 5.0m of vision in a curve around the sim room.

Price might seem high but this is really LOW compared with commercial rates for this type of software.
The price offer to the flight sim community is a huge discount to simmers.

Once you get it up and running, you'll never go back to flat screens.

Mark
YSSY www.markuspilot.com

[Goldmember]

I wonder if dome projection could be feasible for sim applications. In the end, at the $ 40 million level-d simulators, you see a dome segment in front of the sim. My idea is to mount a spherical mirror on top of the sim (or on the floor) and 1 projector that projects in the mirror. The screen would really wrap around the sim like a dome, something like this: http://tinyurl.com/mcs2y5

- what would be the minimum radius in order to prevent the sim throwing shadows on the screen?
- can Sol7 correct enough? See the photo with caption "Molecular simulations from VMD" in the link above; you can see the computer monitor next to the dome and how extremely the image is distorted.

[jmig]

Tried various ways to get the visuals going....

...Enter SOL7 .. problem fixed.
Fantastic result - now I have almost 5.0m of vision in a curve around the sim room.

Price might seem high but this is really LOW compared with commercial rates for this type of software.
The price offer to the flight sim community is a huge discount to simmers.

...

Mark
YSSY www.markuspilot.com (http://www.markuspilot.com)

What IS the price for this software?

[Goldmember]

What IS the price for this software?

Andy in his original posting says:

- pricing would be in the region of 350-400 USD per PC with one full year of email support as well as immediate access to all minor and major upgrades
- optional upgrades and support beyond the first year at $50 per annum to stay up to date with current versions

But that posting is from jan 2008, so I'm curious as well.

[Prof Bill]

SOL7 is an excellent product and is very good value indeed!

When I was looking at "edge blending" I found the following site.

Distortion correction was and still is a factor that causes minor irritatation for me because of the types of experimental screens I play about with.
I guess once you notice these little imperfections it is hard to reprogram your mind in a way that you can ignore them!

http://orihalcon.jp/projdesigner/
http://orihalcon.jp/download/osgdistortviewer_src.zip

Bill.

[BHawthorne]

Those that haven't done the math recently, I looked about 6 months ago and it was around $440 USD. With the current exchange rate it's down to around $350 USD. I guess it paid for me to wait on the purchase till now. I purchased it yesterday. Sort of surprised me that Australian currency is doing worse off than US currency at the moment. ;)

[Goldmember]

That's EUR 246,76 :-)

[Tomlin]

Hi guys

Nat, what are (were?) the specs on the machine that you had issues with FPS regarding the NicD 5-window method? Also, was this for both FS9/X or just X (the performance issue).

My specs are AMD x2 64 3.2 Ghz cpu w/ 4 gigs of RAM and 9800 Nvidia w/ 512 RAM, Windows XP home.

[PaulEMB]

Andy,

Thanks for your support to our community! Add me to the list of future customers!

[Sean Nixon]

I'm a new user too. Just got the home-sim licence. Great program. Thanks to all at Immersaview.

Sean

[Melnato]

Hey Eric,

The rig I had the TH2Go on was a Q9550 OC to 3.83GHz, 4G DDR2 RAM, GTX 280 and WD VElociraptors...

Iwas getting good FPS with a single forward view, but the 5 undocked views were just too hard on that machine.
Of course a current i7 CPU (overclocked) will help you, but I think you will struggle with your current machine.

Cheers mate,

Nat

[l88bastard]

I have two mitsubishi HC3800 Projectors and I want to run them together on a curved screen. However, I have no idea where to buy an affordabe curved screen and if they are not affordable then I will have to build one. Does anybody have some plans, specs or recommendations for me if I have to build a curved screen?

I think Sol7 Immersaview will be the most cost effective route to go that will allow me to edgeblend two projector screens on a curved screen.

I have a small 10'x10' room to work with and I came up with this drawing, based on what I know of the HC3800 stats. However, I would appreciate it if somebody that is better with cad could come up with better specs for me!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v725/l88bastard/Curvedprojectorroom1.jpg

Here are the specs of the HC3800 at a 10' throw
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v725/l88bastard/Curvedprojectorroom2.jpg

My computer specs are:
Intel 980x
Sapphire 5870 Toxic 2GB
12 Gigs DDR3 2000 Dominator Ram
Windows 7 64 bit ultimate

And this is my ultimate goal!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v725/l88bastard/Scalable2screen.jpg