Silly Question on Framerates!!

[arwinpoon]

This might be a silly question but since I am still waiting for my delivery of TH2go I have a question regarding FPS. I havent actually setup dual monitors prior to today , but I just purchased nvidia8800gtx and setup 2 monitors while waiting for TH2go.
While playing with 1 monitor in FSX I was able to get on avg 22-25FPS even with autogen set to dense. then When I connect the 2nd monitor and load up say another view , the frame rate dropped to like 8.7FPS on avg. Is this normal?
Will TH2go make this better.
I seen in some posts that someone was getting like 35FPS with all the sliders up, is this even possible in FSX?.

[Peter Dowson]

While playing with 1 monitor in FSX I was able to get on avg 22-25FPS even with autogen set to dense. then When I connect the 2nd monitor and load up say another view , the frame rate dropped to like 8.7FPS on avg. Is this normal?
Multiple 3D (scenery) views in all versions of FS have always been a frame rate killer. I'm surprised you got as much as 8.7fps -- that shows how good the 8800's are!

The only sane way to use 2 monitors with FS is to have them in the mode where you get FS to span the single view over both, if your drivers support this. Otherwise make sure your secondary views are only 2D panels or gauges.

The same extreme slow down usually happens even with one monitor if you have multiple 3D views open. It's just not so noticeable because then you tend to keep the extra views very small.


Will TH2go make this better.
Provided you have only one 3D/scenery view open, it should be way back up where it was, even with 3 monitors and 3840 x 1024 resolution. The video card can easily handle that and FS doesn't know it's on three monitors.

Regards

Pete

[arwinpoon]

Thanks Pete.
That 8.7fps was with only 2 views (2D) with no gauges what so ever. Let me check further setup on the 8800 regarding spanning.
My plans however was to use 3 monitors with each screen in windows mode, I guess this will make it even worse.

Anybody else have come accross this with FSX

[Peter Dowson]

That 8.7fps was with only 2 views (2D) with no gauges what so ever.

Uh? If there were no 2D panels and so no 2D gauges on them, what on Earth were they views of?

Any scenery, AI view, top-down view, VC view, is "3D", using the 3D engine and requiring 3D acceleration. I can't imagine what your 2 views showed if they were both 2D and no gauges. They must have been just background panel bitmaps! What's the point of such views?

Or have you got things back-to-front here? It sounds like you think the outside views are the 2D ones and the panels are 3D? Only VC panels are 3D and they form part of the 'outside view' drawing.


My plans however was to use 3 monitors with each screen in windows mode, I guess this will make it even worse.

The best use of the TH2Go is three screens, all identical in size, all at 1280 x 1024, giving one very wide 3840x1024 forward view in VC mode. You set the wide screen option in the FSX CFG file and you set your default "zoom" to something like 0.50 so you really see forward, forward left and forward right all as one continuous view.

Pete

[arwinpoon]

Sorry Pete, I misunderstood the terminology. Yes they are outside views only with no Cockpit panels. Just Forward Left and Forward views (2 views).

As per Th2go, will I achieve at least 180degrees views, I mean I want to be able to see not only Forward Left, Front , Forward Right , but also views to the side Left and Right windows as I am sitting in my Cockpit structure.

[Peter Dowson]

As per Th2go, will I achieve at least 180degrees views, I mean I want to be able to see not only Forward Left, Front , Forward Right , but also views to the side Left and Right windows as I am sitting in my Cockpit structure.

Not possible in one window without extreme zoom out and terrible distortion. And as soon as you open separate 3D windows you lose fps drastically.

The only way to do what you want to do with decent frame rates is to use three (identical, or at least high-spec) PCs in a Network, each running FS, linked with WidevieW. I have heard of systems set up like that with a TH2Go on each as well, giving a really wide view with 9 identical monitors in a semicircle around the pilot.

Regards

Pete

[arwinpoon]

ok thanks Pete, I take that on board!!. You've been a great help again and again!!
:o

[Tim]

Not trying to go off tatget here, but as you mentioned, using FSX you WILL see the 3d inside cockpit views when looking Forward Left and Forward Right.

I still can't believe MS thought is was an acceptable way of displaying the 2d external views. As noted before, this eliminates FSX for cockpit builders if you want to display the three separate forward views.

As noted by Pete, spanning the main Forward view across three screens may be a way around this. I'm not sure how the .50 percent zoom would look compared to real world.

[arwinpoon]

Tim,

Im unsure of what you mean by that. Did you mean that NOT in Virtucal cockpit mode but in 2d mode you can see forward left and forward right and see part of the cockpit and frame?.

[Peter Dowson]

I'm not sure how the .50 percent zoom would look compared to real world.

The 0.50 zoom is probably a little conservative -- but it depends how far away your screen(s) are from your eyeballs and of course how big they are. You need to adjust it to get the correct perspective, which is important for judging landings properly.

Even at 0.50 the verticals do tend to lean in a bit ("fish-eye") at the extremes, any wider and it starts to get too annoying, in my opinion.

At an FS show a couple of years ago I saw a demonstration of FS outside forward view projected onto a curved screen which was a complete quarter-sphere, with the projector (and pilot) at the centre, the projector having a special 180 degree fish-eye lens. The perspective was great, provided you were actually close to the projector, i.e. close to the centre of the cut-off sphere.

To do that they had a special driver for FS's graphics, developed with MS assistance I believe.

Regards

Pete

[Tim]

For me, in FSX when in 2d mode with the panel removed ("W" key or "Shift+1"), if I look Forward all I see is the outside scenery, NO aircraft panels.

If I look Left, Forward Left, Forward Right, or Right, I see the inside of the aircraft flightdeck. Same as you would see in 3d mode.

[arwinpoon]

Tim,

I know about that. I found a solution (or a work around) for this. I was playing around with it today and found that I was able to get the sideviews in cockpit mode without seeing the panels or cockpit part. Ill try to explain the steps the best I remembered, and here goes.
1) in normal cockpit view with all the 2d panels displayed, press Shift+w to get rid of the panel,
2) then press Shift+w again so only a small PFD shows up (1 single PFD) ,
3) Next press shift+3 to get a gps instrument to show up
4) press CTRL+SHIFT+T (Transparency adjustment, im unsure whether it is ctrl+T , but I think from memory it is CTRL+SHIFT+T) and use the "+/-" to adjust the transparency until they dissapear from the main window.
5) Now use your view button to see left and right , you shouldnt see the cokpit parts anymore. Any subsequent new views should have NO cockpit panels or parts in it.

IMPORTANT, what I find is that it step 2 and 3 is very important, especially 3 , you need at least to have 2 small instruments showing on screen for it to work. From memory I dont think it is limited to GPS instrument (Shift+3) im sure it can be any but thats the one I used.

See if it works for you. Took me a good 4 F&*&&* hours to stumble accross it.

[Philb737]

Good on you mate:D, Thanks for the help:p:p.

[AndyT]

If you are using a default plane then just rename the interior.mdl file and you wont see the cockpit at all.

[SAS541]

I had my TH2Go connected to 3 19" flat screens previously and was achieving about 15 Fps at 3840x1024. This was with a 4th screen connected at 1280x1024 for the FSX panel. I used 0.70 zoom for the view.

Bear in mind that i had to have most of my settings on quite low and no autogen to achieve this frame rate. I was never sure if my 8800GTX was running at the max with this setup, as i have never been sure if the settings should be optimized in the NVidia drivers or from within the game itself. Why is it so hard to find information on the net regarding where the settings should be made!!

I have now changed to a projector at 1280x800 for the front view only and the 8800GTX is now pumping out 35 Fps with most sliders in the 75% position.

Although my frames do drop if i move to a very complex airport like KLAX etc. Then they go down to around 20 Fps.

I am running this on a Core2Duo 6700 @ 2.66 GHz with 2 GB of ram.

Nice tip on the interior.mdl file. I will change my setup by removing that.

[arwinpoon]

I think what killed the frame rate is the 4th monitor running panels. try not using the 4th monitor for the panels , and use 3 monitor in horizontal span mode and see if you are able to get more than 30fps.

I have a similar setup as yours and I was achieving about 25-26fps in city areas with autogen at normal. Most sliders are full accept for water. I didnt have AI traffic though and aother ground traffic very minimal. but everything else is max , again except for autogen at normal.

[Tim]

Nice tip Andy.

I tried it. Renamed the interior.mdl on the A321. Now I have NO aircraft view at all. I went to Spot view and the A321 in invisible. Don't think that tip will work at least for FSX. Not sure what it does in FS9.

[arwinpoon]

Tim did you try my way??

[Tim]

No, but thanks for reminding me. Off to try.

[arwinpoon]

I tried it again yesterday and it worked. I then save the flight as default flight so that I dont have to do all that again.

[Tim]

I tried but it will not work for me.

As soon as I press the Shift+3 for the GPS, both the GPS and small PDF disappear.

Actually, I use the GPS for navigation on a second monitor, so making it transparent won't work for me.

I'm sure MS has no plans to fix this (or anything else) so I am stuck with it as is.

[AndyT]

Tim,
Is'nt that the point? To get rid of the VC and stuff so you can fly more realisticly? I knew it got rid of the outside view as well. Real pilots can't see 'spot view' either....

Either way.. :D

[Tim]

Yes, I do know that. I don't normally care what the outside of the plane looks like. I was just pointing out that your recommendation does make the a/c invisable. Some may want to know that.

It still will not work for me. I use the PremierAircraft Dash8-300 for FSX. There is no interior.mdl file, so I can't really rename it to get rid of the views.

It appears that the default FSX aircraft have interior.mdl files, but the add-ons do not. At least this ones I have don't.

I do thank you for the tip.

[AndyT]

Sorry Tim, I did not mean to imply you were ungrateful or something. I have been fighting the Flu last few days and I'm sure its affected my attitude. I know its altered my vision and typing! :???: