Painting Screens for Projectors.

[brianwilliamson]

As those that have built screens for projectors and especially 3 screens for Triplegead2go or Wideview, will know, that ambient light and reflections from the screens tend to wash out the colours, and make blacks look grey.
Well here is an interesting site that may be of interest:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/projector-screens-diy-screens/8755-black-widow-pfg-discussion.html

At the moment I am not able to locate these types and brands of paint here in Oz yet, so some more scouting around will need to be done.
Cheers....................Brian W.

[sbecker777]

Brian,
check into a company called Goo Systems. Their Australia dealer page is here:
http://www.goosystems.com/index.php?cont=stocking#1

Steve

[brianwilliamson]

Thank you for the Goo info. I am aware of that product but the price and possibly the results may be different to the DIY article. That I will leave up to individuals to make their own choice. Just hope this will give some food for thought.
Cheers...............Brian W.

[Paul Thomas]

Learned quite a bit that I did not know from before. This surely was very interesting reading.

[brianwilliamson]

Just added some pics to the Gallery showing the results of the new Black Widow paint I used on my 3 screens for Triplehead2go.
It certainly seems to improve the colours and also the contrast is no longer washed out from too much light reflecting from the other screens.
Probably well worth trying. More details here:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/projector-screens-diy-screens/8755-black-widow-pfg-discussion-13.html
Regards...............Brian W.

[Trevor Hale]

Hey Brian,

I can't get over how vibrant the colors are. your "Green" is truly Green.

Thanks for posting this information, you must be quite pleased.

Best regards,

Trev

[brianwilliamson]

Gooday Trev,
Yes it probably is a bit too green !! But at least now we can turn it down, whereas before that was not an option.
Regards..............Brian W.

[Trevor Hale]

You Bet, but it is 1,000 times less washed out compared to the screen in the picture you had posted them (showing them your Sim) .

As a matter of fact, i never realized how washed out my screen was until I saw how brilliant those colors are.

Good on ya!

I would be interested if you get time to take a picture of your walls with no images on them, and your lights up bright, just so I may see the tint of gray that your screen is.

This is the biggest issue I have because I am using rear projection, whatever I am using for material, needs to be transparent. Washed out look is inevitable. I would just be interested in the gray your using that makes those colors so vibrant.

Thanks,

Trev

[brianwilliamson]

Trev, just check out the site I have listed above and you will see some photos of the colours. If you are using rear projection, then that is a whole different ball game. You would then I imagine, be relying on commercial screens, but I am not too well informed on the details of reat projection except that it will not be as good as front projection.
Regards....................Brian W.

[Trevor Hale]

Super thanks for your reply. I will have a look.

Trev

[warvet]

Hi Brian,
After reading that thread and ty btw but I am totally confused lol thats easily done. But my request is im reworking my triple screen setup can you put a detailed layout of your setup including the screen size, material, distances ,exact paint you used how it was applied, how many coats etc. Tha would be fantastic of you ty in advance.

Tim

[brianwilliamson]

Gooday Tim, I am using 3 screens, 8ft. by 4 ft. approx. made from MDF on a frame with castors. I used 2 coats of Black Widow with a roller. I suggest you check the Black Widow site for paint details, as what I have used is the Australian equivalent and would not be the same name in your country. Make the screen sizes to fit your own projector throw sizes.
Regards...............Brian W.

[Melnato]

"... what I have used is the Australian equivalent"

G'Day Brian,

Can you tell me the name of the paint you found in Australia...I'm in Melbourne....

Cheers,

Nat

[Matt Olieman]

What part of the world is Black Widow paint made and sold?

[brianwilliamson]

"What part of the world is Black Widow paint made and sold?"
It was devised in the USA, but is not sold as such, you have to mix 2 paints together Matt.

Nat, the attached pic is what I used on mine http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj281/bwillo_photo/BW-PAINT.jpg

Dulux flat Half Ellen (234-212-199) Wash-n Wear mixed with the AAA (fine), 4:1 Mix.(ie. 1 of AAA)
http://www.airbrushmegastore.com:80/
is where you can get the AAA.

Happy mixing !!...........................Brian W.

[Melnato]

Thanks heaps Brian,

Can I just confirm a few things:

a) Is the Dulux paint 'half strength Ellen' OR actual name is Half Ellen

b) is this the aluminum paint ? :

http://www.airbrushmegastore.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage_new&product_id=918&category_id=187&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1

Thanks,

Nat

[brianwilliamson]

It is called HALF ELLEN, and yep, that is the correct al. paint. If you look at the previous picture you can see the end result of the paint on the board behind the cans.
Cheers.....................Brian

[Melnato]

Thanks Brian ;)

[Melnato]

Brian!!!!!!!!!!!

I bought the Dulux Half Ellen( they called it Ellen Half???), and its
a pink/peach colour ....is that right??????????

Nat

[Kennair]

Nat,

If you look closely at Brian's picture above you'll see on the bottom of the Dulux label the words "Ellen Half", so I would assume yours is correct. As for the colour, I can't say, but again Brian's photo indicates the end result behind the cans.

Be sure to let us know how it turns out as I'm still tossing up whether a projector will win out over multiple LCD's.

Ken.

[warvet]

Ken,
I've done both LCDs and Projectors and overall for realism projectors are better I use 4 of them. I used to use 2 and 2 42" LCD JMO

Tim
A340
Canada

[Kennair]

Ken,
I've done both LCDs and Projectors and overall for realism projectors are better I use 4 of them. I used to use 2 and 2 42" LCD JMO

Tim
A340
Canada

Wow 4 projectors! That must be some view. Don't think my budget can come to that. Thanks for the advice though.

Ken.

[brianwilliamson]

"bought the Dulux Half Ellen( they called it Ellen Half???), and its
a pink/peach colour ....is that right??????????

Nat"

Yes you are correct, it is a pink colour, but that will change when you add the silver to it. Weird but it works.
.............Brian w.

[Melnato]

Crisis over...thanks Brian:)

Nat

[Melnato]

Brian,

A little off topic, but what zoom factor are you using in FS?

Cheers,

Nat


BTW. Screens painted, and yes, it looks weird but it works8)

[warvet]

Nat,
What is the painting idea that makes it work so well in the projection process as opposed to just a white screen?
Tim
A340

[Trevor Hale]

Hey Tim,

I am not sure if you saw it, but in case you didn't Brian put a link to a Projector forum in this thread, He also has pictures in the gallery of the difference. The colors are so brilliant.

Its weird how the silver specs reflect the light differently, and I don't think the pictures do it justice.

Blew me away.

[brianwilliamson]

The projector forum for Black Widow probably explains everything better than I can. I am using a zoom factor of 0.8
Regards...........................Brian W.

[Tomlin]

I just got thru reading the post that was mentioned up above regarding the home theater screen forum, and how to make the 'black widow' paint. Wow, that seems fairly easy and I think I may just try that soon when I go to make my screen.

Best to all of you builders out there!

[Melnato]

Tim, Eric...

I have just started playing with my first projector, and the 'black widow' mixture definitely improves the black contrast as compared to a white surface. $50 bucks well spent....

I took two quick pics to show how it works. Image projected onto a white wall with 'black widow' screen to the right...

http://www.mycockpit.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=2675

http://www.mycockpit.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=2674

Nat

[warvet]

Fantastic Experiment Nat,
Ok 2 questions :
1. Great way you demonstrated both next too each other thats really good Nat, but based on what I see couldnt you just do a brightness and contrast ajustment on the projector and get same or similar result?
2. What is the combination of paint to make your mixture in North America?

Tim
A340

[Melnato]

Timmo,

1. I hear what you're saying, but no matter how much you tweak the projector settings, the 'black widow' screen will always deepen the colors and give you that little extra black/contrast...thats all.

2. Base is just interior house paint and aluminum paint is here: (sheesh they even named after you Tim:D)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Aluminum-mix-for-DIY-Theater-Painted-Screen-Henry-558_W0QQitemZ330230889433QQihZ014QQcategoryZ48655QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Nat

[warvet]

Cool Nat,
Ill go pick up some this week thanks Mate :) and the name will be certainly easy to remember as you pointed out :)

Tim
A340

[Tomlin]

Tim, also to follow on the heels of Nat's posting and experiment (btw, thanks Nat),

The article on that forum mentioned kinda explains what's going on and why it works the way it does and also remember that those home theater guys go to great lengths to make lots of very professional looking results the DIY method, much like all of us here so they are the 'experts' in the home DIY theater. I for one am very glad they went to the trouble to post their results and how to make it! If they wanted a home sim, they will hopefully visit here since all of us have went to the trouble of forging ahead in our hobby too!

Anyhow, I am very impressed with the difference of the two after seeing the photos here. The ones on the home projector forum were good, but this is better since it actually shows FS images vs. an actual movie image.

I think this will be money well spent... Nat, can you say how well lit or how dark your room was in your photos please? My sim hangar is dedicated to the Learjet sim and wont have any light spilling into the room.

thanks again,

[Melnato]

Eric,

I quickly took those pics. with camera phone during day (blinds down) but still a lot of ambient light. I'll take some at night with camera this weekend and post...


Nat

[Melnato]

Here are 8 new shots. Ambient was during day and blinds closed...Dark was at night.

The difference is more noticeable under ambient conditions, none the less, still worth 50 bucks

http://www.flightdecksolutions.com/f...?p=22945#22945 (http://www.flightdecksolutions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=22945#22945)

Nat

[brianwilliamson]

Well done Nat. To make a final point for those that maybe expecting different results :
This paint is designed for one purpose and that is to give better re-production with higher than normal cinema theatre lighting conditions. That is, in a room that is not pitch black and has some external lighting bouncing of the screens and of course off adjacent screens.
If your room was completely dark and you have no reflected light, then Black Widow is really of no use.
Happy painting.....................Brian W.

[bjornsondave]

Gidday,(we use this expression in the Ottawa valley too.)
If you or your many readers want to delve even deeper into screen painting here are a few additional sites that may be of interest.
iam.tiddler@gmail.com
avsforum.com
hometheatershack.com
Regards and thanks.
Dave

[Tomlin]

Hi all

Today I completed my purchase for the Black Widow custom screen paint by purchasing the Henry 558 aluminum paint and the Sherwin Williams Luminous White yesterday. I hope to build the screen today or tommorow and paint it up for testing! I will post my findings and look forward to checking it all out.