How can I make the back lighted letters in a plexiglass panel?

[mirrage]

Hi again!

I try to make a panel myself but at the moment I can not figure out how to make backlighted letters etc.
If I use plexiglass I will be able to add back lighting but how will I gonna
keep the letters clear from paint?I thought to use masking tape but it will be
difficult and not that good overall.
I have also thought of aluminum but the only way I see is cutting the letters and then back light them.
I think this can be done in plexi as well.
MDF is not a choice cause back lighting will be even harder.


Can you tell me a way to make clear to read smoothly shaped back lighted letters in my panels?


Thanbk you all in advance!!!

[Westozy]

Hi Mirrage,

I had reasonably good success with a relatively simple method of backlighting and my radio box and MIP sub-panels all have it installed. Make your pictures of panels in Microsoft Paint or Photoshop then print them on clear plastic sheets like the type used on the old overhead projectors. Printers don't print white therefore all the text will remain clear. Then place white plastic sheeting under the clear print and you have something that backlights quite well. I used 2mm clear perspex as a top cover to protect the printed sheet. I improved the process more by printing two clear plastic sheets the same and sticking them together, this masks additional unwanted light from bleeding through the coloured parts.

I wrote two articles on how this is done in the June and July issues of Computer Pilot magazine.

Regards,

Gwyn

[mounty]

Hi Gwyn,

I take it you set the printer to print a grey background and "white" lettering on the "overhead" film/plastic sheet. That would leave clear lettering which turns white when you use a backing sheet of white plastic. Am I correct?

Thanks

Rob

[oal331]

How you will cut the plexi in the dimensions you want? How you will make round or square openings in the plexi? (it's not easy).
If you gonna use a laser, then you can engrave the letters as you wish.
The best plexi for backlight, is not the clear but the milky

Otherwise ...... just order them ........ it will be more easy ;)


regards

Eddie

[Joe Cygan]

Hi again!

I try to make a panel myself but at the moment I can not figure out how to make backlighted letters etc.
If I use plexiglass I will be able to add back lighting but how will I gonna
keep the letters clear from paint?I thought to use masking tape but it will be
difficult and not that good overall.
I have also thought of aluminum but the only way I see is cutting the letters and then back light them.
I think this can be done in plexi as well.
MDF is not a choice cause back lighting will be even harder.


Can you tell me a way to make clear to read smoothly shaped back lighted letters in my panels?


Thanbk you all in advance!!!

Not to discourage you but a Laser engraver/cuter fits the bill.

[BHawthorne]

Awhile back I looked at glass etching kits. Some of the etching methods might also work with plexi, not sure. I know there is chemical etching and also blasting etching. Might look at how people who do computer case mods etch their plexi panel cutouts. I've not looked hard enough into this to do anything but guess atm though. One would think that if you find the right etching method that it would be a lot higher resolution way to do it versus cnc milling the letters. A cnc mill is limited to how small the bit size can be. Laser sounds impractical for cost on a regular basis. I would tend to doubt many of us have laser router tables in our basements. :)

Edit: Hrrrm, I wonder if a #1 center drill couldn't be used to etch plexi. You can get them for pretty cheap. Use one on a panel and throw it away once done. They're like only $.95. Wonder what spindle speed would be used with that small of a bit and plexi. It would probably be painfully slow speeds and feeds, but might do the trick if you could handle the cut times. This might be how I etch fonts into my initial panels on my X2 cnc mill.

[mirrage]

How you will cut the plexi in the dimensions you want? How you will make round or square openings in the plexi? (it's not easy).
If you gonna use a laser, then you can engrave the letters as you wish.
The best plexi for backlight, is not the clear but the milky

Otherwise ...... just order them ........ it will be more easy ;)


regards

Eddie

...and expensive.

Even if I use a laser and engrave the letters I will have to paint the panels and eventually the engaved letters will dissapear.The question is how will I prevent this or corect it without to destroy the paint job in the rest of the panel.
So far masking the letters looks like the only way to achieve a realistic feeling but it is difficult as well.

Do I miss something about laser engravers/cuters?
If yes can you make it clear to me cause its the first time I try
and I do not have the knowledge.

[oal331]

If you already have available a laser cuter you must first cut the openings, then paint the plexi and after all to engrave the letters, with the same laser machine, but not with strong laser to cut, but a smooth/small one just to remove the paint and make in such way the letters.

But...... beleive me this is a very hard and also expensive job in Athens and i most easy from all point of view to order them from one of all these very good companies thy are making panels.

Eddie

[mirrage]

Awhile back I looked at glass etching kits. Some of the etching methods might also work with plexi, not sure. I know there is chemical etching and also blasting etching. Might look at how people who do computer case mods etch their plexi panel cutouts. I've not looked hard enough into this to do anything but guess atm though. One would think that if you find the right etching method that it would be a lot higher resolution way to do it versus cnc milling the letters. A cnc mill is limited to how small the bit size can be. Laser sounds impractical for cost on a regular basis. I would tend to doubt many of us have laser router tables in our basements. :)

Edit: Hrrrm, I wonder if a #1 center drill couldn't be used to etch plexi. You can get them for pretty cheap. Use one on a panel and throw it away once done. They're like only $.95. Wonder what spindle speed would be used with that small of a bit and plexi. It would probably be painfully slow speeds and feeds, but might do the trick if you could handle the cut times. This might be how I etch fonts into my initial panels on my X2 cnc mill.

Etching idea is good.I have really thought of this many times.Every time regardles the method the problem is one...how will I clear up or keep away the paint from the letters,lines etc.

Its like this... panel--paint--etching

because if you do it conversely like

panel--etching--paint

you will lose the etching but in the first case you will lose the backlighting as well.
So.. panel--masking--paint-remove of masks sounds better for a home builder who wants to lower the cost as low as possible.

[mirrage]

If you already have available a laser cuter you must first cut the openings, then paint the plexi and after all to engrave the letters, with the same laser machine, but not with strong laser to cut, but a smooth/small one just to remove the paint and make in such way the letters.

But...... beleive me this is a very hard and also expensive job in Athens and i most easy from all point of view to order them from one of all these very good companies thy are making panels.

Eddie

There is no possibility to buy a single panel.Even if I could afford it I prefer to make it my own.:D:D:D
Moreover the panels I want to make are not in sale anyware.

[oal331]

There is no possibility to buy a single panel.Even if I could afford it I prefer to make it my own.:D:D:D
Moreover the panels I want to make are not in sale anyware.

So...... good luck!!! :cool:

[Westozy]

Hi Gwyn,

I take it you set the printer to print a grey background and "white" lettering on the "overhead" film/plastic sheet. That would leave clear lettering which turns white when you use a backing sheet of white plastic. Am I correct?

Thanks

Rob

That's it Rob, you got it. The original panel you 'paint' on the PC before printing looks like the finished product. I used images from the Boeing manuals and hand painted them with Microsoft paint and then I added the text in Photoshop 6. I have nearly all the 737NG pics done already, I was planning on giving them to MC.org to sell as a fund raising CD at some stage! It is really easy when you've done a few, I made all the panels for my overhead for about ten bucks!

Gwyn

[Trevor Hale]

Check out these pictures.

http://www.mycockpit.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=1710

http://www.mycockpit.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=1706

I made all my own backlit panels, using Plexi, High gloss Photo paper, and spray adhesive.

and my ink jet printer.

Trev

[Per Alm]

Hello!

I would like to share our solution on how to make panels. We use a freeware program called front panel designer. You can find it in our link list on our website www.learsim.com under schaeffer. Using this program you can design your own panels and have them engraved in different materials by this company. Not to expensive actually and very professional looks to your panels. In this way you can customize your panels to your needs. You can also look for Front Panel Express situated in the US. We use Black anodized aluminum for our panels so they will not be backlit. However there are many ways to arrange nice lights for your cockpits. We use "micro spotlights" with white bright LEDs and coloured plastic films combined with larger spots as flood light. I also used front panel designer to make lightable buttons in same way Westozy made his panels as mentioned in an earlier thread. See attached pictures.

Regards

Per Alm

[mirrage]

Well I leave in Greece so its not easy to make bussines with a Swedish company.
The problem is the distance.:D

Trevor Hale
I am processing so many ideas and solutions and each time I see
something that someone saw from a different point of view.
Thanks for your answer.
I am curiοus to know what aircraft you build.

[Trevor Hale]

I am building a Dassault Falcon 900Ex And having fun doing it :)

Trev

[mirrage]

I am building a Dassault Falcon 900Ex And having fun doing it :)

Trev

Having fun doing your project is one of the most impresive feelings during this task.Dassault 900Ex?You must be one of a few if not the only who build this cockpit.
Congratulations!Your overhead looks really good for home made.

[Trevor Hale]

Thanks so much for your kind words. I have really tried to work hard on all my panels. I make them all myself. have a look in the photo gallery, you can see all my MIP Panels are home made as well.

Thanks again,

Trev

[Per Alm]

[QUOTE=mirrage;54747]Well I leave in Greece so its not easy to make bussines with a Swedish company.
The problem is the distance.:D


Actually that company is situated in Germany and you can buy their panels over the internet. You download their software and design the panels. You can see the price of your panel from within the program, and everything is specified in that price. You then order and have the panels delivered in a week. We are lucky to have a friend in our town with an engraving machine that can read front panel docs. However I also have a friend who makes panels for amplifiers and he used Schaeffers services several times and is very satisfied.

Also if you plan to make the panels yourself you can use the Front Panel Designer software. It's freeware and it's easy to use. You can print the panels on plastic films and mount theese on plexiglass in the same way Trevor and Westozy have. I also use the program to make subpanels to get all the switches, buttons and encoders in correct position. I can recommend that program.

I also fully agree with Trevor Hale that it's very pleasing to design/make all your panels yourself. I also made some custom panels, for exemple an ATC-RMU with a small LCD display for ATC text and buttons ("small terminal") to use for "ATC talking".

You can find pictures of some of our panels in the Photo Gallery in the Corporate Aircraft section.There are also pictures on our site. For exemple our speed reference chart is made with Front Panel Designer and printed on plastic film.


/ Per Alm

[mirrage]

This post has been very helpful.It is even calculating the shipping cost!
I will search the Greek market and if I find nothing better than this I will
continue.

In the issue of enjoyment that building offers I have to say that "The journey is sometimes better than the destination".
Don't you agree?
In fact I am thinging that If I finish building I will have to start something else!

Thanks a lot!

[Per Alm]

I also find the building and planning part very stimulating. But I´m also eager to do that maiden flight!!:D
I guess as things develops there will be plenty of opportunities for enhancements further on. I´m thinking of the outside projections, there are some limitations at the moment in this area. Our plan is to focus on the flightdeck at first. Hopefully when the cockpit is finished it will be as good as we can do it and be good enough to use for several years and through several FS editions. I actually made some generic/custom/additional panels for our cockpit so that we can incorporate new FS functions/systems in our flightdeck as FS evolves without having to build new panels all the time.

Hopefully there will be enhancements, new ways to project the outside view. It´s difficult to solve this problem in a satisfying way at the moment.
More work to come!!:cool:

/ Per Alm

[DonaldMacintyre]

For panels not available from other sources try MDI at www.mdisplay.com. This is a source of both instruments and panels for most platforms. There are both high fidelity instruments and panels for commercial simulator manufacturers and a low cost home enthusiast line of instruments and panels. Most are not shown on the web site so email www.sales@mdisplay.com with your requirements and ask for the home enthusiast product line.

[panda180]

Guys, although its an old thread, I'd like to share with you a method that is used by a VERY large real world company. It's labor intensive, but do find the results are better than etching with the laser (after all, real panels are NOT laser engraved).

Start off with clear plexi, cut with laser (if available). Cover front part with white vinyl. Using a 6 degree blade on a plotter, have your letters cut out and place on top of panel. (Recommend low adhesive ORAMask (google) ). All you should see now are letters and white vinyl. Apply paint to not allow any light to bleed. Let dry, soak in warm water for 10-15 min. Remove the letters exposing the white vinyl. PERFECT backlighting and about 60% more of it by using clear over white plastic.

Hope this helps!

All the best,

Jorge

[mirrage]

Guys, although its an old thread, I'd like to share with you a method that is used by a VERY large real world company. It's labor intensive, but do find the results are better than etching with the laser (after all, real panels are NOT laser engraved).

Start off with clear plexi, cut with laser (if available). Cover front part with white vinyl. Using a 6 degree blade on a plotter, have your letters cut out and place on top of panel. (Recommend low adhesive ORAMask (google) ). All you should see now are letters and white vinyl. Apply paint to not allow any light to bleed. Let dry, soak in warm water for 10-15 min. Remove the letters exposing the white vinyl. PERFECT backlighting and about 60% more of it by using clear over white plastic.

Hope this helps!

All the best,

Jorge

It's been a long time indeed but it's nice to see a good idea like this.
It actually seems like the best way to go.Do you know what is the
real proccess used by instrument/panel manufacturers?

[panda180]

It's been a long time indeed but it's nice to see a good idea like this.
It actually seems like the best way to go.Do you know what is the
real proccess used by instrument/panel manufacturers?

Many methods are used - The one I described and an etching process using specific wavelengths (gets too involved) ...

All the best,

Jorge

[Nukem]

PERFECT backlighting and about 60% more of it by using clear over white plastic.

Hope this helps!

All the best,

Jorge

Such a good idea! I have a couple of questions. Do you mean clear plexi with a white plastic reflective layer behind? Also what type of paint would you suggest?

[panda180]

Such a good idea! I have a couple of questions. Do you mean clear plexi with a white plastic reflective layer behind? Also what type of paint would you suggest?

Hi Nukem,

You'd want the white on the front side. Yes, clear plexi. Recommend automotive paint, it is what was used to be used on panels before regulations required them to be painted with water based colors.

Regards,

Jorge