Jims Motion platform with GearMotors or Step motors

[gflinch]

I have been looking over Jims website (great job there!) and doing some research on commercial stuff (only for ideas). What I am looking for is something that would simulate motion of a combat flight sim. I see Jim talks alot about how this was NOT what he was after and explains why. I was thinking maybe it would be better to use a couple of step motors, as these may be faster(?) for combat sim?

What is everyone else's idea here, I only know enough about electronics to get shocked! :? But I understand engineering and physics principles pretty well.

I know most of you all seem to be flying commercial planes in your sims, but I just couldn't pass up Jims great low cost motion platform!

Greg

[dodiano]

Do you have a link of the platform??

Thanks.

Roberto

[gflinch]

If you mean mine, no, its still on paper. The one I saw though, and got some ideas from is here: http://www.inmotionsimulation.com/index.html if you look under simulations there are some videos.

[dodiano]

That inmotion platform is very nice please keep us all updated on your project... What are your ideas?

Roberto

[gflinch]

What I am thinking is similar to the way jims 'cheap' (for lack of better words) works with the 2 axis, and positions of the axis. However instead of running it off of car steering, I am thinking of just doing a direct drive from some heavy duty Motors. What I mean from direct drive is having a arm type mount as with jims comming off the steering box connected directly to the motor axl, then just using a couple of tie rod ends on some sort of steel stock to connect the floor platform to the moving platform.

I Will work up some plans this evening. I would really like some input on the motors and possible interface.

My goal is to make this as simple as possible (simple also hopefully = cheap! too).

Greg

[Matt Olieman]

They're system does look fantastic, but still a bit pricey for most builders. I appreciate Greg's proposal.... in this case cheaper is better:)

[gflinch]

Well, I came up with a little bit of a 3 view plan, just to get some points across. Now, how do I put up a pdf file? Sorry don't do this much. :?

[dodiano]

How much is that Motion Platform Matt?? Do you know??

Thanks.

Roberto

[Matt Olieman]

I think the least expesive (2D) starts at $13K, I think I saw the 3D at $25K.

[dodiano]

OUCH! Will stay on the ground I guess LOL!!

Take care,

Roberto

[gflinch]

Just to let you all know, what I am working on should be around $250-$500 No were near that cost. As far as I can tell, what I have on paper should be really simple.

[dodiano]

What are you planning for a controller?? And software to interact with FS and the platform??

Thanks.

Roberto

[gflinch]

Again, This is "on paper" reality maybe diffrent. But basically similar to what Jim used on his. Relays and a second computer that will interpreate the input from the sim. Should end up with a simple i/o basic program telling the motors how far to move.

Greg

[gflinch]

Just to let everyone know, I have setup a website, that I plan on documenting my plans and ideas, if you care to visit you can go to http://mysite.verizon.net/gflinch/index.htm I will be updating it weekly. My initial plans are on there for the motion platform I am working on. Anyone know about torque loads of stepper motors?

Greg

[dodiano]

Excellent! Thanks for theupdate we will follow this site closelly!

Roberto

[wannabeaflyer]

Hi Jim ...Its Only Little ole me LOL:-) seems i did a Homer Simpson And Had a D'oh Moment when i Placed the order for the DSE cards ....should have read my own Parts list .. Net result, as soon as my 1st 2 cards get here i will place a repeat order... The parallel Output card i just built was an old kit i had in my lofT for Donkeys Years Your Project just gave me the incentive to build it ..Turns out it works by Sending The ASCII Character "a" = Relay1 On & " A" = Relay Off and so on from A through to H for all 8 output lines , Will need to Play around with the Code to see if its something i can use ,if only for Evaluation Purposes..

Gonna push my LUCK here jim :oops: and Ask the Question ?? Went back to the Breakers Yard and he was kind enough to let me have a Closer look at the Steering box two things came to mind a these are Heafty Lumps of metal and B the ratio seemd a little more than 1:1 ( I Could be totally wrong There ) So was wondering what sort of torque are we looking at from say a wiper typical motor ( Reason being i have seen some barnd new Units for sale at only a few Pounds More than what i would be charged by the Breaker ) Output at the shaft is around 10NM .. is this kinda torque in the right direction or are we looking at much more.. ( Unit felt stiffish to turn by hand at steeering wheel input. Will Post this on ISFBI to help get feedback from the shyer members out there LOL:-)

[wannabeaflyer]

Hi Jim sorry to be a pain but just needed some more tech advice ...Basically spent the last week scouring the net for more info and am looking at how to implement a 3DOF sim based on your design but cant seem to find out how the Heave axis is implemented on your system.... have sources should that found a breakers yard which may be able to get me 3 off Steering boxes and Pumps for a BMW 7 series inc pipes and Arm also 3 off Windscreen wiper motors form the same type of car .. Prop Shaft as well so looking good For the major Elements Coil Spring ???? still trying to work out size Etc .Have a basic Concept and outline Drawing for the Actual Sim Platform But need to Tidy up a load of little details before Metal is Cut .Wood is Chopped , House destroyed LOL:-) .Any info would be Greatly Appreciated as always Hope one day to do you proud... PS as my existing simulator was built around IO Cockpit Interface Cards ( Spanish Company who supply IFC cards Ready Built ) OPENCOCKPITS.COM was wondering if any one has been down this road using your Mechanics and theres electronics

. Just a thought
:D :D

[wannabeaflyer]

Come on Guys and Gals :D , looking at the Number of Views, this topic seems to have generated a fair amount of Curiosity so come guys lets help each other out Info is free and you never know what it might spark in terms of innovation.. Jims done a greet service by showing us mere Mortals that 2DOF and Even 3DOF motion Cockpits are not the preserve of the deep Pocket guys (no offence intended ) so it's great to see a dooable ( Not in the oxford Dictionary but works for me :lol:) alternative for the Home Tinkerer.. Been playing with the software and Sourcing bits as per jims Design and have to say it's not a bad way to go ..done right it wont cost an arm and a leg ( no pun intended) and Seems to me that my Boys Playstaion 2 has had more money spent on it, than it would to put Jims Concept into operation.... So Just one member (New but Keen ) trying to help move this forum along :wink: Rally Cry ...Yell Big Shout Out ... and Before i Go Big Big Big Thanks to The Man ( Jim & Not Forgetting Liz ) and The Guys that helped him Get as far as he has .. We Need More. any tit bits , deep Thoughts , Shallow Thoughts get typing .LOL

[Roland]

Likewise, I have been thinking on a simple system to achieve heave (vertical movement). With roll and pitch, balancing the platform greatly reduces the power needed to drive the axis. Could this be done with heave as well? The only thing that comes to mind then is the see-saw system: placing the platform on one side of the beam and a heavy weight on the other side. pushing up or down would be sufficient. However the inertia will be tremendous. There seem to be some arcade motion systems using this method.
The other method I have been thinking of is placing the platform on a partly inflated air mattress (or inner tire). If you could quickly squeeze part of the mattress it would lift the platform. (actually some sort of pneumatic system) Nothing spectacular, but something like buffering could be possible.
The three actuator system with spring in the middle is another possibility used by some platform makers, but the actuators would still be required to lift or pull some 70 - 80 % of the platform weight. Not sure Jim's streering box could bear that kind of weight.

Just thinking out loud....

Roland
http://www.simprojects.nl

[wannabeaflyer]

Hi Jim ... Had a Eureka Moment last night :lol: regarding my incorrect assumption of the Steering box Operation .. in an earlier post i said i thought the input / output ratio was 1:1 , Seems i got confused what i actually noticed was quite correctly that whenever you rotated the Input shaft there was movement at the Output shaft ..i think what i should have done was take note of how many turns were required at the input to give maximum travel at the torque arm connected to the Output ..the unit seemed to have the required Travel arc of about 9" so will have to go have another look ...in saying that still would be nice to hear peoples thoughts on the approximate torque need at the input end of this arrangement ( Steering Box /Geared DC motor ) Sorry to be a pest Cheers Guys :? :oops:

[Jim NZ]

Hi Guys ... We seemed to have hi-jacked Gregs forum on gear motors and step motors.
A rather interesting angle he is going on so will answer in the cheap motion using junk forum Calvin.

Greg ... You got an update ??? I'm interested in your research !!! Hint Hint

Thanks Jim NZ

[gflinch]

Well, thanks for looking, right now things are on hold a bit. See in the process of collecting ideas and plans, I bought a house, which gives me MORE ROOM TO BUILD! But also less money to work with. Sorry that I have been out of it, took a lot of time to move and dig out of boxes.

Anyhow, as far as this thread goes, I don't think steppers/gear motors are the way I will be going, price is just out of the budget (read above). Basically I am really going to have to figure out a way like jim did (this way is more fun anyhow).

In between everything I looked into the Vacuum cleaner sim, found it to be kind of a pipe dream (no pun) as I spoke with someone who was in the process of building one, and many of the ideas/costs are out dated and some are just tooo hard to get working.

So I think the next best thing now, as I have come full circle on this and that being using automotive parts, much like Jim has. Maybe some sort of hydraulic system, I don't know.

Greg