New Updates from PM July,17th 2008

[Norbert-EDDV]

Hello Cockpitbuilders,
I just saw that there are are lot of new updates from PM on their website. New versions of GC, MCP, CDU for both Boeing and Airbus are ready for download (also new updates for pmsystems, Instructor Station and RJ GC).
Anybody tested it already?
Maybe it's possible now to put in the airways now?
I hope that a lot of bugs are fixed!
Unfortunately I have to wait until weekend but I'm curious about it!
Greetings
Norbert

[AchillesP]

oooooooopppppppppppppppssssssss

An AFT Overhead for the 737 at pmsystems 112 and at least 20..30 new offsets.

I see a lot of forum activity in the next weeks.

Now we have to buy an AFT overhead?

[mauriceb]

Well, I did 2 flights last night after updating all the software. This is what I found so far.

First flight was a short flight (TJSJ-TNCM) with 2 waypoints and it was a total disaster. The ND was still showing that the Top of climb was quite far away while the CDU showed I should be descending. Basically ND was way off but I may have done something wrong somewhere because the next longer flight between New York & Toronto was much better.

BUT, there are still some unresolved issues as far as I could see. The airplane still wants to turn towards the next waypoint as it gets closer. It seems **** bent on overflying the next waypoint exactly before it finally starts the next leg. It seems a bit better than before, but still not quite right. I don't think this is a big issue though although the passengers may not like it :D

When within 50 miles of TOD, the Descend now option should be available in the DES page, but it isn't. Sometimes later it became available, but I wasn't checking closely, so don't know at what distance it became available (it was available when I checked about 25 miles from TOD).

Most importantly though, VNAV descent is unable to properly control speed & by that I mean, you will never reach the 250 knots target at 10,000ft or even much below without manual intervention. The initial descent works fine and when reaching 10,000 ft, the throttle finally came back to idle, but I was still way above 250 knots and stayed that way until I took over manually. I don't recall seeing a drag required message on the CDU when approaching 10,000 ft.

I didn't not get a chance to test whether the route gets messed up if you select a different STAR but it did not get messed up when I selected a different landing runway.

I'm not at all discounting the fact that I may not be following correct procedures or that some of my settings in the various ini file may have got changed as I was experimenting earlier, so I'm not rushing to pass any judgement. Much more testing needed by many people, so looking forward to read about other people's findings.


Maurice

[Peter Nielsen]

Achilles,

Where do you see any AFT overhead on PMSys 112?
Peter



oooooooopppppppppppppppssssssss

An AFT Overhead for the 737 at pmsystems 112 and at least 20..30 new offsets.

I see a lot of forum activity in the next weeks.

Now we have to buy an AFT overhead?

[Jackpilot]

Maurice,

Do U use FSX for your tests?

[flightdeck]

Hi Peter,
in the "sysvar.txt" you can find some new Offets:

5710 1 IRSSelector1
5711 1 IRSSelector2
5712 1 IRSSelector3

5714 1 IRSStatus //this can be used to set the various conditions
5715 .0 IRSNotAligned //will disable GC
And in the "pmsys737.lgc" it says:

////AFT
if aftPanel then
if noirs then
sixpackirs = 0
else
SixPackIRS = IRSDCL or IRSDCR
endif
if flapstest <> 0 then flapstest = 0 [2]
if flapstest = 0 then
LETransit = LEFlapsTransit
LEExtended = LEFlapsExtended
SlatTransit = LEFlapsTransit or ((FlapsPosL > 2050) and (FlapsPosL < 4090))
SlatExtended = (FlapsPosL > 10) and (FlapsPosL < 4090)
SlatFull = (FlapsPosL > 4090)
else
LETransit = 1
LEExtended = 1
SlatTransit = 1
SlatExtended = 1
SlatFull = 1
endif

//--
if IRSSelector1 = 0 then
DCTestL = 1
IRSTestL = 1
IRSOff1 = 1
IRSDCL = 0
IRSLAlign = 0
ATT1 = 0
IRSAlignedL = 1
endif
if IRSSelector2 = 0 then
DCTestR = 1
IRSTestR = 1
IRSOff2 = 1
IRSDCR = 0
IRSRAlign = 0
ATT2 = 0
IRSAlignedR = 1
endif
if (IRSSelector1 <> 0) then
DCTestL = 0 [2]
IRSTestL = 0 [12]
IRSDCL = DCTestL
if DCTestL = 0 then
IRSLAlign = IRSTestL or AlignL
endif
if (IRSSelector1 < 3) and (ATT1 = 0) then IRSOff1 = IRSNotAlignedCDU
if (DCTestL = 0) and (IRSTestL = 0) then
IRSAlignedL = IRSOff1
else
IRSAlignedL = 1
endif
endif
if (IRSSelector2 <> 0) then
DCTestR = 0 [2]
IRSTestR = 0 [12]
IRSDCR = DCTestR
if DCTestR = 0 then
IRSRAlign = IRSTestR or AlignR
endif
if (IRSSelector2 < 3) and (ATT2 = 0) then IRSOff2 = IRSNotAlignedCDU
if (DCTestR = 0) and (IRSTestR = 0) then
IRSAlignedR = IRSOff2
else
IRSAlignedR = 1
endif
endif

if IRSNotAlignedCDU and (IRSTestL = 0) then AlignL = blink
if IRSNotAlignedCDU and (IRSTestR = 0) then AlignR = blink
if (IRSSelector1 <> 0) or (IRSSelector2 <> 0) then
IRSNotAligned = (IRSAlignedL and IRSAlignedR) or ((IRSSource < 1) and IRSAlignedL) or ((IRSSource > 1) and IRSAlignedR)
else
IRSNotAligned = 1
endif
if (IRSSelector1 = 3) or IRSNotAlignedCDU then
IRSOff1 = 1
ATT1 = 1
endif
if (IRSSelector2 = 3) or IRSNotAlignedCDU then
IRSOff2 = 1
ATT2 = 1
endif
//-----------Maybe that's what has been mentioned by Achilles!

Cheers

[mauriceb]

Maurice,

Do U use FSX for your tests?


That's all I ever use now ;)

Maurice

[ivar hestnes]

Guess I have to purchase more sys-boards then. New functions need more interfacing:D

[NicD]

I installed the updates yesterday and did a quick test flight. Unfortunately the plane still tried to turn back after I'd selected a STAR / RWY on the APPDEP page, while the EXEC light was lit. Once I pressed EXEC it resumed LNAV track. I've reported this to PM support and they are looking into it. If anyone else still sees this bug please report it here and to PM support.

[marco]

I installed the updates yesterday and did a quick test flight. Unfortunately the plane still tried to turn back after I'd selected a STAR / RWY on the APPDEP page, while the EXEC light was lit. Once I pressed EXEC it resumed LNAV track. I've reported this to PM support and they are looking into it. If anyone else still sees this bug please report it here and to PM support.

Hello Nick,

I confirm this bug, the same effect for me. I'll send a message to PM support now.

[luisgordo]

Has anyone tested the Airbus Type updates?

[pdpo]

Hi Louis,

indeed , I updated last night and made a flight... the changelogs mention maintenance updates. I have the impression just the build numbers were updated... I am really getting pissed off ....
All issues I have send for the last two years to PM are still there.....
I havent seen any improvement at all....

If Enrico would at least mention what exactly is supposed to have been addressed we could send him feedback weather its solved or not...

Greetz Peter

PS : one thing though...I did not have to step back... the new build seem not to have broken anything....
I have send two or three days ago a mail about the new problems seen with swapping PFD/ND and maybe he is on vacation since no reply what so ever...

[Norbert-EDDV]

Today I have updated CDU, MCP and GC software.
After this I made an IVAO online flight from EDDB to EDDN. On the route page I put in the airways BELID Y204 LODRO M736 TABAT T192 NIBIL. Then I chose on the DEP/ARR page the departure runway and SID from Berlin and the arrival runway and STAR for Nurnberg. CRZ Fl 240.
Takeoff and turn on autopilot.
I did not have any problems in automatic flight on SID. No unexpected heading change or unexpected Hispeed. The A/C brave worked off the inputs from CDU.
Also on CRZ no problems by flying the route.
On arrival I had to turn off LNAV and VNAV because I received radar vectors from controller.
This first flight with the new updates made lot of fun for me !
Greetings
Norbert

[hercules]

You can activate the AFT-Overhead in the PM-Systems Menu! After activating it you will get a graphic like the forward panel with many working funktions as i see.

I can only test it via software, so its not sure it works real.

- IRS Alignment knobs works
- Flaps/ Slats works
-Crew Oxygen gauge works
- Speed/ Stall-test works

-Iam not sure about the outputs of some funktions...

Nice to see the aprovements :-)

Thomas

[luisgordo]

Well, I updated all programs (except pmSystems, as there seemed to be some changes in the a320 logics file -indeed it would be nice if any changes were somehow highlighted or pointed out-).

I noticed no changes from previous versions either. Would be nice if PM told us what changes they made.

[mauriceb]

I did not have any problems in automatic flight on SID. No unexpected heading change or unexpected Hispeed. The A/C brave worked off the inputs from CDU.
Also on CRZ no problems by flying the route.
On arrival I had to turn off LNAV and VNAV because I received radar vectors from controller.
Norbert

Norbert,
What you describe is a part that never gave problems in the past either. Most if not all of the LNAV/VNAV problems seem to occur during the descent phase of the flight or when selecting a STAR for your arrival. You turned off VNAV & LNAV at a crucial time here, so you would have missed any of these issues (manual intervention works great and always did).

Try doing a flight where you don't disconnect VNAV or LNAV until close to landing and see what you find out. Also try selecting a STAR when you program the CDU and then change it during the flight. For me, almost every time, I have the long known issue of the plane changing course until you press Execute and apparently others have as well with this release.

All & all, this is still a great program but several thorny issues are still not resolved. If you disconnect VNAV for the descent and have minimal manual intervention for LNAV, everything works great and is probably the way to enjoy your flight more than if you let everything be automatic. Otherwise, you might as well take off and then leave your sim until it's time to shut it off :D

But no harm in pointing out remaining issues so that PM know they are still around, although I can't imagine that they would not be aware of that.

Maurice

[Norbert-EDDV]

Try doing a flight where you don't disconnect VNAV or LNAV until close to landing and see what you find out. Also try selecting a STAR when you program the CDU and then change it during the flight. For me, almost every time, I have the long known issue of the plane changing course until you press Execute and apparently others have as well with this release.

Maurice,
today I made a flight from EDDB to EDDV. Because I wanted to test the STAR changing I made this flight without IVAO Online flight (half of fun).
Preparing the flight I put in the route BELID Y203 HLZ. For takeoff in Berlin I chose the Rwy25L with BELID SID. For arrival in Hannover I chose Rwy27L with HLZ4P arrival. CRZ FL160.

Okay.Takeoff. Gear up. LNAV, VNAV and A/T engaged.

Round about VOR HLZ I assumed that winds had changed and contoller gave me now Rwy09R expecting for arrival.

In CDU I put into the DEP/ARR page ERASE DEP and then I chose Rwy09R together with new HLZ4R STAR. EXEC - Done!

I did not had any problems until touchdown on Rwy09R.
Do I make anything wrong for that I am excluded from the bugs ;-) ?

I agree with you that it is a great software and of course I don't believe that all bugs are eliminated now, though we paid a lot of money. But I have the sense that they are continously working on it and anyway I think it is a good way to motivate with positive feedbacks.
Greetings
Norbert

[michelmvd]

I did several testflights (EBOS-EDDP and EBOS-LEMD-EBOS) with the lastest builds .
(GC 454, MCP 426 CDU 396 PM Sys 112). I also used the latest NAVDATA from Navigrpah.

I notice that NONE of the well know issues with the uptodate NAVDATA are solved.
When entering a RWY for the destination airport in DEP/ARR, a major part of the previous entered AWY data is gone. When re-entering that data, it ends up below the RWY info of the destination airport. Idem when entering the full STAR. This comes up every time, at the ground, preflight or in flight changes.

Also there is still a tendency to turn very sharp to the waypoint, before switching over to the next one. (Certainly when strong upper winds are in force) The result is a "Z" flight on a straight line ;)

These are all very well known issues, reported several times by me and others to support.

In the GC sofware (B744 version) there are still these bugs regarding the APU N1 not spoiling up in the STAT page and the wrong tankassigment in the fuel page.

Also these bugs are well known and reported to PM support.

In the GC there is now even a new bug regarding the Flight mode Annunciators. When LNAV is active and HDGSEL button is pushed, it should disarm LNAV (what it do), but LNAV remains in the FMA, It should change to HDGSEL (what it always did before the new build.

So all I can say is that after month's of waiting for new builds, I'm very disappointed. They are stable builds, but what has been changed is a mystery for me.

Well send again a message to support ...

B. Rgds
Michel

[marco]

Hello Michel,

I confirm your words. I've the same problem with my Boeing 737. Have sended my feedback to Enrico last Saturday and yesterday.
Will wait for a solution.

Best Regards

Marco

[mauriceb]

I did not had any problems until touchdown on Rwy09R.
Do I make anything wrong for that I am excluded from the bugs ;-) ?



Norbert,

You are indeed a very fortunate fellow if you are not seeing any of the
problems several others are seeing now :-D. If I were you, I would back up everything now & never make another change :p .

If you do have a secret cure though, I would be willing to pay big bucks for it :mrgreen:

Maurice

[NicD]

Given Norbert's positive experience I'm wondering whether the STAR selection issue (where it tries to turn back until you press EXEC) is navdata related? Maybe the navdata version, or the actual airport / approach data itself ... some may produce the bug, others not?

I will test Norbert's EDDB to EDDV flight and see how it goes.

[mauriceb]

Given Norbert's positive experience I'm wondering whether the STAR selection issue (where it tries to turn back until you press EXEC) is navdata related? Maybe the navdata version, or the actual airport / approach data itself ... some may produce the bug, others not?

I will test Norbert's EDDB to EDDV flight and see how it goes.

This does sound somewhat logical because I too have had uneventful flights where changing a STAR did not muck things up.

But why should the plane do anything when you are just trying to change the programming? Regardless of how bad the new route may be, it is not in effect until you press Exec, so the plane should remain on its original course until you do press Exec.

Maurice

[eudoniga]

As for myself, I didn't find so far any perceptible fix to the issues which were (re-)reported lately around here, especially since the splitting of the forum sections for each software module ...
and I'd LOVE to be proved wrong !

How did you folks feel, even before the download, after opening the changes.txt files, which, under the new version, read (for almost all modules):

- maintenance update
- DLL changes
?

:sad:
Really sad feelings ... after waiting for months.
:roll:
Regds to y'all,
EU

p.s. Some trivia:
- did anybody see the REVERSER lights of the new 737 AFT OHD panel coming ON ?
- the LE leds on the new 737 AFT OHD panel are correct in reporting the LE position ... but why doesn't the LE EXT light on the EICAS GC do the same ?
- what are we: alpha testers, beta testers, or ... ? You name it !

[pdpo]

Hi all,

I have previously posted my disappointment about the airbus updates.
In the mean time I had send a new problem I have seen to Enrico and he swiftly repaired it and I can test it out tonight.
I have informed enrico that I (and many along with me) was disappointed with the last updates, I have resend him again a list with some of the main issues I have seen...
respons ... more updates coming soon ... lets hope ... that those updates bring also solutions

greetz Peter

[AchillesP]

Hi,

My first flight was yesterday with the new updates.

- pmsystems did not start propertly. My hardware overhead was dead. I restarted pmsystems

- Copilot glass cockpit crashed (strange grafics) when I landed
- RCDU more slowly that before
- Slatters at copilot PFD/ND
- Copilot F/D also activated pilot's F/D (with cpflight Pro version)

I will come back with the second flight today

Achilles

[Norbert-EDDV]

Back to reality:
Yesterday I made my third flight with the new updates. From LOWI to EDDF. Input in CDU Rwy25R with PSA2W arrival.
No problems until DESCEND.
The calculation of descent path is still incorrect. Wondering about very low sink rates of 600, 800 or 1000 feet the A/C then changed by approximation to the waypoint to a nose dive with overspeed up to 380KN IAS still trying to reach the FL that is set in CDU.

@Nic:
Nic, I'm still using Navigraph version 0707.

Greetings
Norbert

[AchillesP]

Hi,

I start to use the ariane 737-700 model as it seems more real to me than PMDG. This model is a little bit strange. The landing lights are visible only if the engines and bus selects are running and on. It seems very real as the capacity of power is big enough. Anyway.

After the upgrade to pmsystems 112 I have the below problem.

If flight simulator is running and aircraft on ground (cold and dark) and then start all magenta programs (including pmsystems) all ARE FINE and the landing lights goes to on if the engines are on and power from engines are on. If then I choose the aircraft again the landing lights are dissapear even if my hardware switches are on (and also pmsystems switches shows on). All the other lights are working fine. In order to have the landing lights working again, I have to reinitilaze the pmsystems. This is happening with version 112 and ariane 737-700 model.

Any other with the same problem?

Achilles

[brianwilliamson]

Check out some later updates:http://www.projectmagenta.com/downloads/builds/latest/?M=D
.............Brian W

[sas550]

Well it looks like PM is alive and kicking again. That's great.

With the new GC455d one small but really annoying (at least for me) problem is gone.

When hand flying on take off with no vertical mode selected it was impossible to get lnav guidance on the fd until a vertical mode was selected. It's now solved.

I thought it was connected to the mcp but it was the gc.

[michelmvd]

In the GC sofware (B744 version) there are still these bugs regarding the APU N1 not spoiling up in the STAT page and the wrong tankassigment in the fuel page.

In the GC there is now even a new bug regarding the Flight mode Annunciators. When LNAV is active and HDGSEL button is pushed, it should disarm LNAV (what it do), but LNAV remains in the FMA, It should change to HDGSEL (what it always did before the new build.




Hello,

With the latest builds (GC 455e, MCP427e CDU397c) a lot of long term B744 issues has been corrected or adapted.
APU N1 in STAT page is corrected and the B744 specific tankassigment is also ok now.
The new bug about the LNAV in MCP is also gone.
Also the message box in the upper EICAS is now in the correct place when lot's of memo messages are displayed. Items mentions in txt about VOR and so are also longterm issues which are now inline with the B744.

Great to see that PM did this further development. A big thank you Enrico

Only one downside, the wellkown common issues with routes / stars are still there when you put your route via RTE page.

B. Rgds
Michel

[sas550]

I have to correct myself. The lnav issue is still there. It worked however the first run i did. That's to bad. At first it felt abit like christmas.

[michelmvd]

The new builds brought a wave of corrections and line ups with the B744. This is really great. Unfortunately the common route problems with the star's (when entering route via the RTE - page) are still in place.
According Jonathan they didn't receive any complains anymore since the new builds.
Here is my routing of the test flight

EBOS- EDDP ( route : RWY 26 KOK2M KOK UL607 AMESI UN858 MASEK T200 LASTO T230 SOMKO SOMK2W 26R

Input is via RTE. First Origin / destination in RTE-page, switch to DEP/ARR for the EBOS SID, back to RTE-page for the rest of routing and the to DEP/ARR for RWY selection and STAR of Leipzig.

Maybe some users can test this flight and check for the errors ?

B. Rgds
Michel

[Peter Nielsen]

Mike,

try to enter it differently, i still dont get why you guys are entering the STAR at point of origin as you have no idea what rwy is in use at destination until you get within reach of ATC or ATIS as the case may be

Enter your ROUTE, ie origin, destination, and flight plan from initial entry fix to IAF, then enter the rest of your pre flight, ie fuel, weight, FL, temp, flaps etc. your EXEC ought to light up..

Only then based on ATIS or ATC and once you know the active rwy for departure, go back to RTE and pick the rwy and corresponding SID

forget arrival rwy and STAR altogether at this point, its irrelevant..

once within reasonable reach enter your arrival Rwy and STAR and press EXEC and it will work. :-)

Cheers
Peter







The new builds brought a wave of corrections and line ups with the B744. This is really great. Unfortunately the common route problems with the star's (when entering route via the RTE - page) are still in place.
According Jonathan they didn't receive any complains anymore since the new builds.
Here is my routing of the test flight

EBOS- EDDP ( route : RWY 26 KOK2M KOK UL607 AMESI UN858 MASEK T200 LASTO T230 SOMKO SOMK2W 26R

Input is via RTE. First Origin / destination in RTE-page, switch to DEP/ARR for the EBOS SID, back to RTE-page for the rest of routing and the to DEP/ARR for RWY selection and STAR of Leipzig.

Maybe some users can test this flight and check for the errors ?

B. Rgds
Michel

[NicD]

Just to be clear - I never enter the STAR/RWY at origin - I always enter it airborne before top of descent, usually within about 200nm of the destination. And the error still happens.

I hope to test some of the routes you guys have posted this weekend, and will report back.

[B738]

Don't make the silly mistake I made guys. When you have the Rear Overhead enabled, you have to Align the IRS befoe you get active PFD's. I recently reloaded my CDU computer and thought that was the issue! Finally realised the issue after about 3 hrs of fault finding.

Brad.

[oal331]

Don't make the silly mistake I made guys. When you have the Rear Overhead enabled, you have to Align the IRS befoe you get active PFD's. I recently reloaded my CDU computer and thought that was the issue! Finally realised the issue after about 3 hrs of fault finding.

Brad.

Brad, i didn't test the new versions to have my opinion, but the problem as i can see is that there is no documentation about the new builds, instructions about new functions, information for bug fixes etc....... So it was not "silly mistake" as you didn't know about it.




i still dont get why you guys are entering the STAR at point of origin as you have no idea what rwy is in use at destination until you get within reach of ATC or ATIS as the case may be


Peter you have right, but it's not a wrong procedure anyway. In short domestic flights you can enter the origin STAR and Rwy in use read according current METAR or TAF and change them in case of wind change.

Best Regards

Eddie

[michelmvd]

Peter you are right, it was that way before the very accurate and computer flightplan predictions. Now (and I have checked it with several real life pilots of B744's) most of the times it is entered during the preflight. It can also be downloaded via acars. In view with the TAF's and other weatherinformation, experienced crews - common with the airport - can predict very well which rwy's and correspondenting STAR will be used.
And in case you check your atis and the SID or STAR is changed, then well they simply change it in the DEP/ARR - page. You can delete STARs, Waypoints or SID's whenever you like and add new ones. The cdu is there to help you, not be against you ;)

Anyway will try your procedure and see if we still have these errors, but as far I know they are there always when you use the RTE-page to enter routes.

B. Rgds
Michel

[Jan Pemöller]

Correct, only when you use the RTE Page you get the problems!

on the RTE page you can enter airways and the endpoints
example: V121.TGO

Hope this will be fixed soon!
I bet the problem has something to do with the format or the page where we enter the data ...

Best regards
Jan

[Peter Nielsen]

Things are still not working..

Last night i did a short test flight in a B737-800 from EHAM to EDDE
route
ARNEM L620 SONEB/N250FL350 SUVOX UZ713 OSN UL980 DLE UL986 POVEL UZ16 GALMA Z94 ERF

Waypoints
<table style="margin-top: 3px;" border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" width="415"><tbody id="waypoint_list" _extended="true"><tr class="list"> <td class="important" width="80">EHAM</td> <td width="30">EHAA </td> <td width="40">
</td> <td width="60">N5218.5</td> <td width="60">E00445.8</td> <td width="40">
</td> <td width="35">104</td> <td width="35">50</td> <td width="35">317</td></tr> <tr class="list"> <td class="important" width="80">ARNEM</td> <td width="30">
</td> <td width="40">
</td> <td width="60">N5205.8</td> <td width="60">E00604.6</td> <td width="40">L620 </td> <td width="35">99</td> <td width="35">26</td> <td width="35">267</td></tr> <tr class="list"> <td class="important" width="80">SONEB</td> <td width="30">EDLL </td> <td width="40">
</td> <td width="60">N5201.4</td> <td width="60">E00645.9</td> <td width="40">
</td> <td width="35">103</td> <td width="35">13</td> <td width="35">241</td></tr> <tr class="list"> <td class="important" width="80">SUVOX</td> <td width="30">
</td> <td width="40">
</td> <td width="60">N5158.2</td> <td width="60">E00706.5</td> <td width="40">UZ713 </td> <td width="35">57</td> <td width="35">46</td> <td width="35">228</td></tr> <tr class="list"> <td class="important" width="80">OSN</td> <td width="30">EDWW </td> <td width="40">
</td> <td width="60">N5212.0</td> <td width="60">E00817.1</td> <td width="40">UL980 </td> <td width="35">85</td> <td width="35">36</td> <td width="35">183</td></tr> <tr class="list"> <td class="" width="80">ROBEG</td> <td width="30">
</td> <td width="40">
</td> <td width="60">N5214.0</td> <td width="60">E00916.2</td> <td width="40">UL980 </td> <td width="35">85</td> <td width="35">23</td> <td width="35">146</td></tr> <tr class="list"> <td class="important" width="80">DLE</td> <td width="30">
</td> <td width="40">
</td> <td width="60">N5215.0</td> <td width="60">E00953.0</td> <td width="40">UL986 </td> <td width="35">99</td> <td width="35">36</td> <td width="35">124</td></tr> <tr class="list"> <td class="important" width="80">POVEL</td> <td width="30">
</td> <td width="40">
</td> <td width="60">N5207.7</td> <td width="60">E01049.7</td> <td width="40">UZ16 </td> <td width="35">150</td> <td width="35">18</td> <td width="35">88</td></tr> <tr class="list"> <td class="" width="80">ABGUS</td> <td width="30">
</td> <td width="40">
</td> <td width="60">N5152.0</td> <td width="60">E01103.2</td> <td width="40">UZ16 </td> <td width="35">150</td> <td width="35">17</td> <td width="35">71</td></tr> <tr class="list"> <td class="" width="80">KENIG</td> <td width="30">EDMM </td> <td width="40">
</td> <td width="60">N5137.2</td> <td width="60">E01115.9</td> <td width="40">UZ16 </td> <td width="35">150</td> <td width="35">15</td> <td width="35">54</td></tr> <tr class="list"> <td class="important" width="80">GALMA</td> <td width="30">
</td> <td width="40">
</td> <td width="60">N5123.9</td> <td width="60">E01127.1</td> <td width="40">Z94 </td> <td width="35">195</td> <td width="35">28</td> <td width="35">39</td></tr> <tr class="list"> <td class="important" width="80">ERF</td> <td width="30">
</td> <td width="40">113.8 </td> <td width="60">N5057.1</td> <td width="60">E01114.2</td> <td width="40">
</td> <td width="35">277</td> <td width="35">11</td> <td width="35">11</td></tr> <tr class="list"> <td class="important" width="80">EDDE</td> <td width="30">
</td> <td width="40">
</td> <td width="60">N5058.8</td> <td width="60">E01057.5</td> <td width="40">
</td></tr></tbody></table>

Departure rwy 24 Arnhem sid, some 50dme inbound DLE i entered rwy 10 and VOR/DME approach. the EXEC light DID NOT LIGHT UP, however the entire route simply disapeared the the a/c turned direct to ERF vor.

I was using the latest AIRAC pm nav files from the navigraph website though..

Peter

[sas550]

I can also confirm that the problem is there even if you use the legs page. It seems connected to certain airports or airwais. This is one that doesn't work entered either on rte page or legs page

dep ESNN

pevel
sipri
hmr

arr ESSA

When entering the star to wich ever rwy the flightplan gets messed up heavy.

[Jan Pemöller]

found a new bug:

Missing TAI letters over N1 Display when turning Anti Ice on

Can anyone confirm before I will report to pm-support!

Thanks
Jan

[Jan Pemöller]

second bug:

I cant switch to mach 0,78, it goes always back to 0.73!
Using CP Flight MCP ... and had never problems before.

Best regards
Jan

[Peter Dowson]

I cant switch to mach 0,78, it goes always back to 0.73!
Using CP Flight MCP ... and had never problems before.

Same with the PFC MCP (except the Mach value here was 0.76, but I think it depends on the Aircraft txt files or something like that).

Also, I'm not seeing the automatic transition between IAS and Mach which is supposed to occur at the altitude specified in the MCP.INI parameter for this.

Regards

Pete

[michelmvd]

No problems here for the B744 Aerosoft MCP.
Only the transition at FL290 always change to 0.870 instead of 0.860, but this is already a longterm issue.
B. Rgds
Michel

[michelmvd]

Additional to my test flight EBOS-EDDP, I did today also EBOS-LSGG (Geneva)
This time I waited till 80 mls before T/D to add the STAR, as Peter mentioned he had no problem then.
Unfortunately the results were the same : the full UN852 was vanished. (Did the STAR /RWY input just after GTQ)

So my full routing was

EBOS 26 KOK2 KOK UL607 REMBA UM624 RITAX UT27 GTQ UN852 MOROK UZ24 AKITO AKITO 2R RWY 23

It looks that the problem is definitively still there when using the actual NavData.
Very strange that they didn't see that with PM.

Have reported it again to Enrico, with the 2 exemple routes.
The best is to inform them with exemples.
B. Rgds
Michel

[Peter Nielsen]

Did two flights today

NZCH to NZQN, nothing worked at all, and by that i mean that i had had no PFD or ND, but i decided to fly and test, and behold suddenly passing FL150 it all came alive..
This time i entered RNAV for rwy 23 and it actually did work.. then again it was pulling the STAR for my Stardata2file which are the Rnav waypoints i added some 2 years ago for NZQN.

2nd test was a short hop from EDDH to EKCH, again on TOD entered CDA3A and it all went blank again..

I my opinion we ought to all roll back the entire suite some 18 months, then start from there, and above all get the PM team back on communication mode..
Peter

[NicD]

Rolling back is tempting, and I'd say that the PM folks would agree! But then we'd be stuck with navdata that is 18+ months old. And that's what started all this... whene DAFIF finished and Navigraph took over the supply of Navdata, PM had to rewrite there software to handle the new navdata. That's when the bugs started.

I repeated one test flight YMHB-YMML and in the cruise selected the WAREN9 arrival for ILS27. The exec light came on and I left it for a minute before pressing EXEC. The aircraft continued on normal track and didn't deviate. Once I pressed EXEC the STAR entry was fine and the RTE and LEGS pages remained normal. That same route was playing up alot last week, so something is better, however it seems that the problem still surfaces on certain STARs/RWYs ... so it's gotta be a bug in the way some approaches are programmed.

I also noted that the Mach / IAS speed did not switch on descent - causing overspeed.

VNAV and LVL-CHG remain erratic. PM says those are on the list but are not the priority right now. (aren't we all glad Boeing doesn't say that - lol! :))

[michelmvd]

Hi Nic,
Thanks for your sharing news about your test routes.
You are right the problem started when DAFIF became restricted to military users and Navigraph took over.
I don't think there is something wrong with the present navdata, as more than another dozen addon's are using it. I checked with PMDG en Level-D users - who have also the complex cdu's to use - and there are no problems at all. The source is all the same, only the addon specific conversion program's are different.

Let's hope that Enrico finally can find the bug with the new exemples we were sending him.
Or I have bad luck or Murphy is around, but I must say that not many of my routes are working normally in my last tests.
Only the very short route EBOS-EGLL is working normally and even the return gives already the same problems.

What I see here basicly is when I enter the route info via the RTE-page (normal procedure, as otherwise you have to enter every waypoint, which can be very frustrating when you fly long haul ;) ) is that SID entering and route entering is ok, but at the moment I select the RWY of destination and/or STAR, the last 2 airways entries are vanished.

Michel

[Michael Carter]

Would it work if you waited until you reached the clearance limit before entering the STAR?

[michelmvd]

No idea, but is certainly not the way you must do it.
A descend and approach planning is done atleast half an hour before t/d, if you fly online, you will come in trouble if you wait so long to prepare your approach.
But will check once during another test.
BRgds
Michel

[NicD]

Just out of interest Michel (and others) - do you select the STAR first, then the runway, or the other way around? I wonder if this has something to do with it?

[Peter Nielsen]

STAR's are runway dependant so if you choose the STAR without a rwy you would get them all, or more often get nothing at all as you have not chosen the RWY.

normal procedure is to chose the RWY and then select the STAR

Peter

[Michael Carter]

Just out of interest Michel (and others) - do you select the STAR first, then the runway, or the other way around? I wonder if this has something to do with it?

I choose the STAR based on direction of flight and the landing runway considering the wind direction. At many airports, there is only one or two procedures, others have pages.

I don't use PM, I just thought I'd offer up a suggestion that I hadn't seen before in this thread.

[sas550]

I always choose rwy first then star. And I've also tried entering the star close to the initial approach waypoint with the same result.

[michelmvd]

Hi,
Firsrt RWY selection and then the STAR concerned.
I tried it otherwise, just to check, because it doesn't make sense, but same result.
As far I could see it doesn't change anything if you wait till the descend point.
There is simply something very wrong with the relation of the latest AWY waypoint and the connecting STAR .

I sent several exemples to Enrico last week, so let's hope he finally comes up with a solution. This is basic stuff, very important for navigation and normal real life route simulation. Specially when you fly online.

B. rgds
Michel

[Jackpilot]

At some airports (like CYOW ) you may have a STAR initiated at a specific waypoint from which different Runways are possible. In which case you select the star first and then the Active runway when advised.
I tried it with PM and had no prob (except the usual turn away until exec is pressed.)
Just a note.

[Thunder175]

Anyone else notice that if you do select a STAR with multiple transitions that it doesn't enter all the waypoints? Perfect example was last night when flying into Orlando (KMCO) on the PIGLT1 arrival. If I didn't select a transition it would enter all the correct waypoints after PIGLT. However when selecting the OTK tranistion (based on my route), it entered all the way points up to the merge at JAFAR. I have to enter all the remaining STAR manually.

This is a problem that I have seen for a long time now and is not new with the latest version unfortunately.

PIGLT1 STAR: http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0807/00571PIGLT.PDF