eng start with pm sys

[David Withers]

i have been running an early version of pm sys...probably a year old.

i installed the latest build and now i cant get engines to start. well, the port one starts and makes the starboard one cut off and then the n1 values blink as i try to start it again and then they both wont start.

bugger.

has anyone experienced this?

[NicD]

David... I'm glad you ask!!! I thought I was losing my mind. Had the same trouble with the #2 engine, went back to an earlier version and all was ok. But I though it was something to do with my sim. Phew!

[David Withers]

hi nick and hi shadow man.

did you over-write it mate or did you have to re install the earlier virgin?:D

you brushing up for worldflight?...we might be struggling to make it. i ditched all my nerdy creepy sim stalkers so now i have no one to fly the plane. if i tied the dog up on the fo seat would that count as a person?

[David Withers]

hey...while i got ya!!...is your fo nd the same size as your capt nd?

really peesing me off that one....fo side smaller/lower. so annoying.

say hi to shadow.

[NicD]

i always back up my virgins mate :D

havent noticed any size difference in the FO displays - but will check it out

World Flight planning well underway .. got some new crew members too

cheers

[HauptChr]

as i try to start it again and then they both wont start.


If you use external elec power for engine start, provided by engines off + parkingbrake on + anti col. light off, the engines will not start. The External Pwr becomes unavail and the busses will go offline. The starter remains on and the EGT rises to about 800° , you will have N2 below 40%.

If External Power is provided by the instructor station or the APU GENs are online, engines will start normally.


Christian

[brianwilliamson]

I am having the same problem with the Airbus and no matter what I do, no go on RH engine. Using the latest version of PMSystems. Anyone else found a workaround without the instructor station etc. ?
Brain W.

[brianwilliamson]

Thomas came up with the answer. In my start procedure the X-Bleed was not mentioned. Now all ok.
Brian W.

[Trevor Hale]

K Guys,

I am having this issue Now.

Latest Build of Pm Systems, and Engine #2 will not start no matter what. Ctrl + E in flightsim is the only way to make it go.

I have tried everything. Once #1 is started, to get #2 to go.

Is this an issue with the latest build, or is this supposed to happen?>

Trev

[Michael Carter]

What is the correct start sequence? Does #2 get started before #1 in the real world?

[Trevor Hale]

As far as I know, Yes.. #2 always first....

Even still, I can't get #2 to start no matter what from PMsystems..

[David Withers]

i think engines starts get rotated between each one dont they? or is it always the one furtherest from the cabin entry to start first ?? dunno.

just to throw a little spanner in the works ...when i do get my engines to start, the n2 drops down to about 12% and then climbs back up to a normal start when i lift my fuel levers.

[NicD]

You're supposed to be able to start either 1 or 2 first. It's definitely a problem with the latest PM systems build. I relayed that information to PM a few months back but they said the problem is not theirs. So I suggest everyone with the problem emails PM support to inform them that in fact the problem is theirs :)

[NNomad007]

What is the correct start sequence? Does #2 get started before #1 in the real world?

well, most companies have written procedures for start order, but generally speaking, allways #2 first.. for a hudge amount of boring reasons...(depends a lot on plane configuration..for example, on 3 engine aircrafts like L1011, DC10/MD11, 727, usually the tail engine is started first, so, #3 than #1 finally #2).. im more confortable talking about airbus type, and in that case there is a more solid reason to start #2 first: the yellow and green hydraulic pumps are connected to the #2 (being the blue and green one connected to #1), usually the brakes are powered by the yellow (parking break) and green (steering) hydraulics, so if #1 is powered first, only one system will be used in that engine (again.... it all depends on airline procedure based on technical considerations for the specific AC)..nevertheless, its very possible to see AC's starting #1 first... in your specific case, start #3 first, than feel free to make your own choice, it cant be said that starting #1 first is incorrect or otherwise...

Cheers

Alex

[Thomas Richter]

Hi

To pmSystems it doen't matter which engine you start first, it's just an Airline safety option because the doors are on the left (Eng-1).

I checked the Eng-Start again with the current version 114, default 737 file, and FS9. I don't see any problem.
Is it with FS9 or FSX?

[Michael Carter]

well, most companies have written procedures for start order, but generally speaking, allways #2 first.. for a hudge amount of boring reasons...(depends a lot on plane configuration..for example, on 3 engine aircrafts like L1011, DC10/MD11, 727, usually the tail engine is started first, so, #3 than #1 finally #2).. im more confortable talking about airbus type, and in that case there is a more solid reason to start #2 first: the yellow and green hydraulic pumps are connected to the #2 (being the blue and green one connected to #1), usually the brakes are powered by the yellow (parking break) and green (steering) hydraulics, so if #1 is powered first, only one system will be used in that engine (again.... it all depends on airline procedure based on technical considerations for the specific AC)..nevertheless, its very possible to see AC's starting #1 first... in your specific case, start #3 first, than feel free to make your own choice, it cant be said that starting #1 first is incorrect or otherwise...

Cheers

Alex

#3, or the right engine gets started first on the 727 because the Essential AC buss is supplied by that generator and also, the Essential AC buss receives 115AC from the APU to distribute through the synch buss.


Now back to your regularly scheduled PM discussion...

[Trevor Hale]

You're supposed to be able to start either 1 or 2 first. It's definitely a problem with the latest PM systems build. I relayed that information to PM a few months back but they said the problem is not theirs. So I suggest everyone with the problem emails PM support to inform them that in fact the problem is theirs :)


Nic, did you revert back to a previous version of Pmsystems? and if so would you have that laying around that I could snatch from you?

Trev

[NNomad007]

Allways learning...

[Trevor Hale]

Hi

To pmSystems it doen't matter which engine you start first, it's just an Airline safety option because the doors are on the left (Eng-1).

I checked the Eng-Start again with the current version 114, default 737 file, and FS9. I don't see any problem.
Is it with FS9 or FSX?

Thanks Thomas, I will check my version and try to do another start tonight.

Best regards,

Trev

[Thomas Richter]

Also important is to use ever the latest FSUIPC or FSUIP4.

But the ones they have engine start problems what is the FS you use?
FS9 (FS2004) or FSX ??
What software is running by side ?
What hardware is used?
Does your CutOff lever support the pmSystems Offset or direct to FS ONLY (I added for this an Option in pmSystems Option Menu)?

[Trevor Hale]

I am using the latest FSUIPC with FS9.

I am controlling the engine start switches now right from the overhead image on the Pmsystems screen. (No hardware yet)

No other software running on that machine except for the CDU.

My cutoff switches are curently disabled in PMsystems, and are going to be connected directly to FSUIPC.

But for now, just using the graphic to ensure the cutoff switches are in the fuel on position.

Trev



Also important is to use ever the latest FSUIPC or FSUIP4.

But the ones they have engine start problems what is the FS you use?
FS9 (FS2004) or FSX ??
What software is running by side ?
What hardware is used?
Does your CutOff lever support the pmSystems Offset or direct to FS ONLY (I added for this an Option in pmSystems Option Menu)?

[Thomas Richter]

My cutoff switches are curently disabled in PMsystems, and are going to be connected directly to FSUIPC.

But for now, just using the graphic to ensure the cutoff switches are in the fuel on position.

Trev

Disabled with the Optin in pmSystems Option Menue "Select User Option"
X If CUTOFF LEVER has a Pot and NOT a SWITCH

[Thomas Richter]

I forgot

What are the Offsets you use for the CUTOFF and what are the Values you write to to Fire?

[Trevor Hale]

Disabled with the Optin in pmSystems Option Menue "Select User Option"
X If CUTOFF LEVER has a Pot and NOT a SWITCH


Ohhh, actually no.. I don't have that one selected.. Gosh my brain is fried.

the cutoff switches aren't the issue though, as I can't even get engine #2 to start cranking...

If it was a cutoff switch issue, the engine would at least crank over, but not fire.

I can't get it even to start spooling up.

Trev

[Trevor Hale]

I forgot

What are the Offsets you use for the CUTOFF and what are the Values you write to to Fire?

Not writing any offsets for these functions yet.

Trev

[Thomas Richter]

The Bleed-2 shows pressure? (Isolation Valve is in OPEN or AUTO position?)

[Trevor Hale]

The Bleed-2 shows pressure? (Isolation Valve is in OPEN or AUTO position?)

Yup sure does, I have even tried dual bleed. I have put the packs in all positions, like I said i can get engine 1 to crank no problem. but engine 2 will not crank at all.

I have tried every switch position imaginable, on Auto, On, or off.

Even moving the ign switch from Right, to Both and to Left, still seems to have no effect on engine #2.

But when I go into Flight sim. Ctrl + E always cranks and fires engine #2 just fine.

Trev

[Thomas Richter]

Make sure there is nothing in FSUIPC defined for the Engine Starter (from old days may be).
Does the Start switch stays in Start position then or does it switches back to OFF by itself ?

[Trevor Hale]

LOL, I checked that already.. FSUIPC is clear with no definitions in it at all at this point.

when I move the start switch on the overhead to GND, it just stays there for ever and ever... until I move it to a different position.

But no engine crank.

[Thomas Richter]

When you did that (ENG-2 in GND) just press on pmSystems-PC CTRL + A and send me the sysana.txt file from pmSystems main folder.

[Trevor Hale]

When you did that (ENG-2 in GND) just press on pmSystems-PC CTRL + A and send me the sysana.txt file from pmSystems main folder.


I will do that as soon as I get home, and forward you the file.

so I will start engine #1, then put the switch for engine #2 in GND mode, and hit Ctrl + A.

Then email you the .txt file.

You got it.

Trev

[Trevor Hale]

Call it bad carma, call it whatever you like but for some reason, Tonight, I am able to start #2 perfectly.

I think it is time I retire from this hobby. I argued with this problem all weekend.

Extra special thanks to Thomas.

Trev

[Michael Carter]

Sometimes programs do strange things and then stop doing them. It's happened to me too with no explanation that I can think of.

Glad to hear you got it going.

[ivar hestnes]

I have almost same issues as Trevor. Sometimes I cant start nr 2 for anything in the world. No respond at all when eng2 switch set at GRD. Whatever I do, it wont start or spool up. But reboot all computers and it could be just fine next time.

Using phidgets for cutoff-levers. sys-1 for eng start switches.