building 727 or early 747

[hca]

I am planning most likely a 727 build up, but considering a 747 early variant. pre glass model.

It will have to be one of these because I have collected heaps of parts already.

I was looking for a source of the panel layouts, and if available the general dimensions.

Searching I find a lot of info on later glass based models but could I ask for a pointer in the right direction or help out with info on the pre glass versions.

regards Harry

[Michael Carter]

Muuhaaaa...we have captured another one. :mrgreen:


Boy are you in for a lot of fun. And hair-pulling, and probably some cussing thrown in too. Good thing you have a supply of parts on hand, just keep collecting them because no one makes any repros. 727 or 747-200 doesn't matter, they ain't out there.

I can help you with modifying most Boeing 727 aircraft modules except radios, radar, and trip computers. Other than the above, I've yet to find anything from a 727 I couldn't make work one way or another.

There are no panel layouts for the 727. I will measure mine on Sunday and post here with the dimensions. It is a real instrument panel, so you can be sure the dimensions will be 100% accurate. Not almost to scale.

The cheapest solution for gauges is MSPS and a 17" widescreen monitor for the flight instruments. You'll need a 12.1" widescreen for the engine stacks, but I've yet to find a supplier.

Welcome to the very small first generation Boeing jet club and welcome to the site.

[hca]

thanks for the reply and welcome.

Yes its hard work, compared to glass, but I guess i prefer clunky switches and dials. even if it is a lot of servos.

For now, I am trying to collate a shopping list, so far the genuine artifacts have been lot cheaper than the imitation for later models with the exception of flight directors and the like.

Any pix or detail of your panel would be great, for dimensions and completing a wish list.

I am considering buying a flight manual, theres a few on ebay but not sure they have the info I really need at this stage.

Interesting you have a genuine panel, a dealer in the US asked me if was interested in a nose cone, which I assume would include a panel. But to get it home to Bali it would be a container job and i am not quite sure it would fit.

Naturally I could go broke filling in the gaps.

[737NUT]

Hello,
I am building a 727 sim myself as well.I am using real gauges using either servos or synchro's. Here is a link to my site,
http://www.geocities.com/raflyer/727Homepage.html?1198601480593

Any questions, feel free to ask.

ROb

[hca]

Thanks Rob,

Heading over for a look now.

I found my way by some links to this 727 project, http://www.oncealoft.com/

Makes me reconsider the nose cone offer verses cost of a container from the US to Bali. I wonder what the local customs would make of it?

[Michael Carter]

Nick is is in the top three of a three person list for Boeing 727 parts.

Fast shipping, sometimes a little high on a thing or tw, but still cheaper than having aftermarket made. Plus, you get a real part sometimes worth thousands for pennies on the dollar.

[blueskydriver]

HCA,

I have some B727 parts for sale; I posted them today. Go to this MyCockpit Thread:

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/showthread.php?p=63580&posted=1#post63580

Thanks,

John

[hca]

What are you blokes using to drive your servos and interface them to the sim computer?

I was planning to do my own thing using some code I developed on microchip pics and run it all on a can bus that terminates on the network.

Mike I can probably help you along with those radio panels in a while, depending on how you can hook them to your sim pc.


harry

[Michael Carter]

Be forewarned, these are mechanical radio heads with the rotating indicator dials for the frequencies. Gables models before digital displays were the norm.

I'd sure be interested in knowing how to modify them though. I was thinking that the switches use a common ground while all of the switch contact points just emulate the FS key press for up/down frequency change.

I don't have any servos in my sim. No reason to have any in my 727. There is no auto-anything in the 727 except the AP.

[hca]

ok Mike

I am still waiting on them to arrive from the US. but my intention is to stick to the mechanical heads and just read what ever they are set to the same way the radio unit did. I seem to remember a 2 of 5 code or some thing like that was used on some heads.

my chip will just read the setting and send it out whenever it changes.



No servos, how about driving attitude indicators and the like?

[Michael Carter]

ok Mike

I am still waiting on them to arrive from the US. but my intention is to stick to the mechanical heads and just read what ever they are set to the same way the radio unit did. I seem to remember a 2 of 5 code or some thing like that was used on some heads.

my chip will just read the setting and send it out whenever it changes.

No servos, how about driving attitude indicators and the like?

All of my instruments are on a 17" widescreen monitor. It barely fit with all of the Korry indicators and switches sticking out of the back of the panels.I shopped for the thinnest bezel on any 17" WS monitor I could find. It came down to a Hanns model. The Korry indicators are actually helping to hold the top of the monitor in position, that's how tight the fit is.

I don't have a monitor for the engine instruments. It will hold a 12.1 WS perfectly, but I can't find a company that will sell me one. And only one.

FS Panel Studio was used to modify the Dreamfleet 727 instrument panel for use with my 727. THe only shortcoming is the attitude indicator is a little cut off at the top (but still very usable) because the monitor wouldn't fit any higher to fill the instrument hole.

The idea about the radios sounds very exciting. I don't know what you mean by a "2 of 5 code" though. Do these heads require power or are they passive?
Do you know what pins on the jack relay the frequency change to the tranceivers? If so, how would this be wired to the chip you wrote about?

Sorry for the million questions. I would very much like to get the original radios working rather than spending $300+ per head for a non-authentic digital aftermarket sim head. I'd also like to finally put to bed the on-screen center control stand I still have to use to change frequencies.

I'd also like to have my ADF head working as well.

[Jackpilot]

Never opened one of these radios but the most obvious would be to link the knobs shaft to an encoder which would change the frequencies in the software.
Since the rest of the radio is useless there should be room enough to devise some mechanical linkage. Once sychronized, the clicks should change the digits on the wheel display and the soft.
Could be interesting to open the innards of a cheap Ebay steam VHF and start thinking. Doable!!

[hca]

I think my take on this will differ a fair bit. As I understand it most folks are running on some win variant with usb interfacing of some kind.
My setup is based around flightgear on linux. This means I have direct access to the sim engine and its easy to ditch the glass and feed all the control and instrumentation on a network socket.


The little boards I use and code for the chip that goes in them is left over from another project. Basically one chip interfaces the pc network to a 2 wire network on the sim, the same network used in cars these days. One chip can drive a few servos, read about 10 pots and quite a lot of switches and lights The chip, board and few other bits costs about $15. All available online.


As for the radio head, I am not familiar with these boeing ones but experience with narco and collins radios in the past makes me think spinning the mhz knob, drives the mhz read out and a switch arrangement, from the switch will be some wires for tens, some for units. there wont be much to it because this is all 70's technology.

My plan is to read the switch positions, decode and send the frequency out on my can bus. I dont know that the microsoft setups can work with this, but the chip I use has 2 serial ports so if it helped I could put it out the serial port. A version like that might be of help to you guys.

All in all better and cheaper than the imitation radio panels to my way of thinking. This is bonus of so many 727s going the the breakers at the moment.

The adf will be similar but in reverse. Here the chip will generate the signals the meter normally receives from its blackbox.

There is a variant of the chips that is usb, but unfortunately I have no idea how to code it to work with the microsoft setup.