Quality improvements please

[ivar hestnes]

This is ment for the vendors around the globe.

Some vendors make products of great quality and some vendors just charge you for crap. Sometime I just think that lots of people just are interested in grabbing your cash for a low-quality product. Pictures look good, but functionality is poor. I am a kind of man that easy pay more to get what I think is a better product. But higher price is better is not always the truth in this business!

This is really a big issue for us builders. We pour out money all over the world for products that we can not test before it is in the mail.

Just an example here: I have a column neck that has a ball-bearing. Sounds nice doesnt it? But how can someone be such stupid that they use a threaded rod for shaft? and only one ball bearing? It is pointless if there is not two bearings anyway. You dont have a chance to get it straight on the bearing with the threaded rod. ( A threaded rod is 100% useless as an axle). The splines where the yoke is to be attached is not attached straight on the threaded rod either. So the yoke will have a strange movement when you turn on it. The fibreglass neck is not round at the column end. It is oval!!!! So I have to use duck-tape in strategic places to make it round. And then slip it into the column. The spline that the yoke should attach to is probably some crap cut from a cars driveshaft. It is not a new item, but a well used one. It has scars on the splines and is corroded, and it is **** to get the yoke to fit. The chain does not have a good match to the chain-wheel. Slips off easily.

Also the lack of support from some vendors are a quality issue. Doesnt matter how good your product are if you cant answer an e-mail when your customer has a question.

I had a product that arrived with a function failure. 2 months of e-mailing before I could ship the product back for repair. the manufacturer obviously did not have a customer list. He did not know who I was and asked about my product was new or used. And even then I am not a customer of priority. 3 months later, a replacement part is still not in place.

I am not sure if I should laugh or cry. (The truth is that I am really pissed off. My patience is to come to an end). So be warned fellow builders. Choose your vendors carefully.

And vendors: I really want to see some improvements in the future. After spent 35000 usd on my project with all bits and pieces, and still lots of work to do. you can be very sure that the vendors with poor quality will get known for that. If you make a bad product for the money you charge, you dont want to have me as a customer!!!

So if someone with good computer-tech skills want to make a web-site where we builders/users can rate vendors and their products with our comments, it would be much welcome. It is necessary I think. To much overprised products regarding quality in this business.

Just had to get this out. It has annoyed me for a long time now.

Thanks god that my main supplier is a serious company. Thank you for your support PC:)

[Trevor Hale]

Ivar,

For the reasons you state, this is exactly why MyCockpit is creating a "Certification Process" It is our hopes that while doing product reviews, that we can have vendors subscribe to out certifications. This will allow customers like yourselves to invest in products that have our MyCockpit Seal of approval on it.

Over the next few weeks, you will begin to see this list come together. The list will be available at http://www.mycockpitinc.com/certification.htm
and full reports will be available on http://www.mycockpitinc.com

I know this is late for you, however it will benefit more customers down the road.

The association will force those vendors producing inferior products to work harder on their products to create that good value for the money.

Best regards,

Trev

[ivar hestnes]

That is excellent news Trevor.

It is not late for me;) Crap can be replaced. And I have still lots of products to order.

I know there are lots of good vendors around, and I am impressed of what some of the fellow builders here make for sale.

I was a little scared to write the post above. But I think it was the right time to do it. Somebody has to.

One think important Trevor. The vendors support service must be an integrated part of your certification. A product is not better than the weakest link in the process.

Thanks for your understanding of my above post:)

[Trevor Hale]

I couldn't agree with you more. Matt and I are working diligently to create this certification process, and not only are we taking into account support, but customer service as well. Plus as an added bonus, Vendors who meet the requirements, and then renege on them in the future risk loosing certification of all their products. The process will be available to be viewed by the public so that they can see what requirements the vendor
must adhere too. Additionally, MyCockpit will have an area where customers can submit claims, then we will work as a liaison between the Vendor and the customer, to resolve any issues that do not get resolved internally.

We want customers to be able to buy into this process as much as vendors.

Trev

[BlackWidow]

Fantastic idea!

[dodiano]

Could you specify what product are we talking about?

Regards,

Roberto

[ivar hestnes]

I am not talking about your product Roberto:)

One of your competitors;) Not so many of them though. ( it is the neck/angle from yoke into the column. The part with the tricky shape).

If I write a name it could be seen as bashing, so I dont want to do that.

Cheers:)

[Philb737]

I'm in 100% with Ivar!!!
There should be some sort of a filtering process. I have dealt with 6 major vendors in the last two years. I'm super happy with 5 of them!!!!!, But unfortunately:evil::x:x:x:x:x:x, there is the one who's name has been mentioned here several time by other members!!! He makes the absolute worse parts and quality and dimension!!! I wouldn't take his products if he offered it to me for free!!!!!!
Just my two cents

[Trevor Hale]

I'm in 100% with Iver!!!
There should be some sort of a filtering process. I have dealt with 6 major vendors in the last two years. I'm super happy with 5 of them!!!!!, But unfortunately:evil::x:x:x:x:x:x, there is the one who's name has been mentioned here several time by other members!!! He makes the absolute worse parts and quality and dimension!!! I wouldn't take his products if he offered it to me for free!!!!!!
Just my two cents

Another perfect reason, why Matt and I are working so hard on this.

I am not saying it will solve all the problems, I am just saying that if Customers are demanding that vendors products have gone through the certification procedure before they submit to buy them, it would solve a lot of issues after the fact, and force people to increase their quality.

Trev

[Padraig]

This is a very good idea Trev, and also good thread Ivar. I don't know know what vendor you are on about, but in this hobby, we all know things are pricey, and to pay so much and then get something that is unworthy is not acceptable. Support should also be 110%, 2 months waiting for a reply for a question about a product you bought is a damn joke.

[ivar hestnes]

We are serious builders which spend huge amounts of our time and money. And also expect to be respected for that from the vendors. I dont like others to waste my time or money.

I try to put a little quality in the stuff I make for myself, and it is expected that I get what I pay for when receiving a product, or asking questions from a vendor.

Most of the time we pay in advance without ever seen the actual product in real. That puts some responsibility on the manufacturers. So they can stand up for the quality of their products.

I am looking very much forward to see the effect Trevor`s licencing can make. Very interesting. Maybe the not serious vendors just disappear.

But there is some light shining also;) Lots of good products on the market with excellent support. And lots of good products to come in the future from many vendors. Hopefully there will also be made more products for the GA market. Sure it is needed if someone could just see the market potential.

:)

[arwinpoon]

I agree totally. Its been a long time coming. Trevor and Matt , Im sure you both know how and when you started this hobby. Many people , especially me rely on the great knowledge of such forums like Mycockpit.org . A lot of people have saved up their life savings to build and not have the physical know how to build from scratch so they go and buy replicas from suppliers.
I myself have come accross a few suppliers that I am absolutely up to my necks with lack of quality and support. I could probably write a thesaurus with the obscenities that I frequently yell out every now and again.
I think it is time that we should all stand up and let everybody know all our experiences with these vendors. I even have pictures to show!!!

[Trevor Hale]

Well, this is the reasoning behind all of this.

It has been clear to us that there has been many lets call them (Instances) where you guys "the community" have had poor experiences with Vendors. Really as Matt and I are putting the finishing touches on the certification process, it will be up to you guys "AS A COMMUNITY" to request that seal of approval.

It won't happen over night, but as Vendors come on board, and the community accepts our certification, everyone will be happier.

What we need to do as a community is pull together and demand that certification, so that you can feel comfortable spending the time any money on a product, and at the very least have some recourse if the support level goes south.

Picture an entire community going to bat for you if you have a bad experience with a vendor.

It has to work, and with the MyCockpit name backing you up, just think of the results you will get from it.

Matt and I have felt that we need to do something for the community, and thats why MyCockpit is here. To help all builders with their projects, and if we can't provide you with piece of mind when you buy a product, then we have failed as a helpful community.

Anyway, Once we finish the certification, I will be sure to post it here, so that everyone can comment on things they would like to see that maybe Matt and I have missed.

This truly is an exciting project for MyCockpit, and we hope the community realizes it is all for the benefit of protecting our investments with the way we have to purchase products.

Trev

[super80]

This is an absolute fantastic idea!!

[Paul G]

I know people don't really name names here too much and that's reasonable. However, I think it's fair to do so in context so people can make up their own minds. Whenever I've done that, I try to stick to facts rather than opinion. That way it's easier for someone to decide whether it IS the supplier or an incompetent customer.

Also it's good to praise the good suppliers wherever possible, for things like customer service which is often forgotten until it comes to calling upon it. As a service provider in my profession, I get furious when less experienced and cheaper people are hired first, and then I get called in last minute because the low experience person screwed up. But now there's little budget remaining so they want me to work doubly fast for the same money (yes this DID actually happen, and they couldn't understand when I started laughing at them).

In conclusion, I'm firmly behind the 'get what you pay for' thinking, except it's a shame that this is ALWAYS an after thought, rarely being used to justify the right choice up front.

[Rodney]

Trevor & Matt,
Please include stated lead times in the process. i understand that they may change, but the consumer must be made aware of that change and the vendor should then honor and commit to a new stated ship date. Here is what I mean and I am not singling out any vendor as I have seen some post lead times. Some have larger customers, and when you order, you hope the lead time stated is good and assume it is if the vendor acknowledges you order. but as your order comes closer to the expected date, it slips for what ever reason. To me its had to send anyone, and most are outside the US a large amount of money upfront for a product that takes forever to get in my hands.

One other question; What is wrong with alerting the builder community of an inferior product as long as it is factual? As Ivar stated, what he ordered as it appeared in the picture was not within the expected quality tolerance. Try to resolve it with the vendor first, but if it is like he stated (I have no doubt it is), post pictures of the inferior product. Let others know what you got. Most likely won't even have to name the vendor as a picture speaks volumes.

Everyone remembers David L right?

[Trevor Hale]

Trevor & Matt,
Please include stated lead times in the process. i understand that they may change, but the consumer must be made aware of that change and the vendor should then honor and commit to a new stated ship date.


This is already been taken into consideration, although the way I would expect it would be worded is, "Vendors are required to provide a shipping date/ETA of the product at the time of order placement, any deviation of this date, outside of 10 business days must be made to the customer in writing informing them of the reasons for the delay"

Again this goes to "Customer Service" which also has its own section in the Certification.



One other question; What is wrong with alerting the builder community of an inferior product as long as it is factual?

First off, please everyone reading this thread must know. Ivar's post was not altered in any way. What you have to understand is that, public forums can be trouble. Matt and I are very clear that as long as you are describing your personal experience with someone, we will allow it. However, any individual that writes slanderous or derogatory comments are doing so at their own risk, and as soon as MyCockpit gets involved it is Shut down.

However, everyone has a right to know the companies that meet or exceed our certification. Therefore, All Customers must come to the conclusion, that if a vendor and their product is not listed as having the MyCockpit Seal of Approval, then there is added risk, to such a purchase.

On the flip side, we are not guaranteeing that if a vendor is on our list, you will be 100% Satisfied with the product either, all we are saying is that if a vendor and a product meets our certification, and you know what is required to for them to meet the criteria, there is a better chance that you will be happier with what they are selling. Provides piece of mind for customers that the item is of good value for the money.