dual core or quad core

[Mr. Midnight]

even though i have already gotten the dual core , i was told that a quad core would have been better for FSX.

im wondering if you good folks can expand on that.

thanks....Robert

[Trevor Hale]

Robert, FSX now with the patches makes use of multiple cores. therefore the more the better.

Trev

[oal331]

Robert, FSX now with the patches makes use of multiple cores. therefore the more the better.

Trev

I don't have FSX, but as i hear, there is no computer until today, that can support FSX, with winter heavy weather, online flights with some multiplayer aircrafts around, with high settings and good fps.

Many many friends, invest their € to a powerful PC for FSX (more than 1000€), but they are flying the Fs9 :cry:

Any other opinion ?

[Efe Cem Elci]

I don't have FSX, but as i hear, there is no computer until today, that can support FSX, with winter heavy weather, online flights with some multiplayer aircrafts around, with high settings and good fps.

Many many friends, invest their € to a powerful PC for FSX (more than 1000€), but they are flying the Fs9 :cry:

Any other opinion ?

Maybe make use of a server? ;)

[AchillesP]

I don't have FSX, but as i hear, there is no computer until today, that can support FSX, with winter heavy weather, online flights with some multiplayer aircrafts around, with high settings and good fps.

Many many friends, invest their € to a powerful PC for FSX (more than 1000€), but they are flying the Fs9 :cry:

Any other opinion ?

Hi,

Actually there is. A pc with qx9770 overclocked at 4,0Ghz and asus rampage extreme. I saw it in action.

I am telling only QX9770 because it is based at the new tecnhology of 45nm instead of 65nm. This makes the cores to be 50% more faster at the same spped with less power and heat.

For example. A 65nm tecnhology runs at max 333 Mhz when 45nm starts at 400Mhz with a stock multiplier 8. So you go 400 x 10 = 4Ghz of speed just for fun with air cooling. If you want to go 400 x 11 = 4,4 Ghz you need water cooling to keep temperature under 50 of celcium in full action.

Also the data goes paraller of the cores because of the many transistors instead of one by one per core.

So, FSX is just a breakfast for QX9770.

[Matt Olieman]

Hi,
So, FSX is just a breakfast for QX9770.

Doesn't say much for FSX, at least for now. I hate being teased with all the eye candy and only to get stutter, even with the best that's out there. I agree with some; FSX is just ahead if itself.

Matt Olieman

[Matt Olieman]

Just wanted to ad to my last post, since I was thinking about it :)

Bottom line is.... What do you want; FS9 a fast smooth scenery (lot's of scenery options, not quite as good as FSX), operates nicely on today's standard technology.... OR..... FSX a fantastic scenery options, but can't use it to the max, because of slow frame rates, and consistently nags at you to find improvement of your computer, which is not there, or else set the setting low..... now you're back at FS9 level.

Comes down to this, in my opinion, what ever that means.... LOL.... and (I love FSX), you might as well get the super duper computer and use FS9 with all it's glitter ad-ons.

Will I fly FSX once I have my super duper computer going... you bet. But I think FS9 will be my main FS.

Matt Olieman

[mauriceb]

Will I fly FSX once I have my super duper computer going... you bet. But I think FS9 will be my main FS.

Matt Olieman

Matt oh Matt! :roll: How disappointing! :( You started this forum and you are still living in the past. :roll: You of all people should be a trail blazer & at the forefront of new technology :p :D

FS9 will be history soon (FSX will be history later as well). Hasn't anyone learned from the past yet? :roll: :D

Maurice

[Michael Carter]

Yeah, with FS8. That's why I'm staying with FS9 while I have a great system to run it with.

[Kennair]

Look everyone, listen to Maurice. Sure FSX can be slower on some hardware but you don't have to spend much to get it to perform, and it's soooooo nice. Fly once with something like Orbix FTX loaded and you just won't bother going back. Yes FS9 can still be enjoyed immensely with current hardware specs just as a bicycle can get you from A to B at little cost, but there's no doubting a car will do it in more comfort and style.

FSX (as will be FS11) is the future and I recommend giving it a go.

BTW, if you're not getting good performance with FSX using medium spec hardware then there's something wrong with your hardware and/or software setup.

Just my 2 bobs worth :)

Ken.

[Matt Olieman]

Matt oh Matt! :roll: How disappointing! :( You started this forum and you are still living in the past. :roll: You of all people should be a trail blazer & at the forefront of new technology :p :D

FS9 will be history soon (FSX will be history later as well). Hasn't anyone learned from the past yet? :roll: :D

Maurice

LMAO.....


Will I fly FSX once I have my super duper computer going... you bet. But I think FS9 will be my main FS.

I should of added at the end of my statement "for now." I love FSX, I just don't have anything descent to run it on... for now.... LMAO

Damn, why does Maurice have to be so right.... LOL I'm embarrassed :roll:

Matt Olieman

[Matt Olieman]

Look everyone, listen to Maurice. Sure FSX can be slower on some hardware but you don't have to spend much to get it to perform, and it's soooooo nice. Fly once with something like Orbix FTX loaded and you just won't bother going back. Yes FS9 can still be enjoyed immensely with current hardware specs just as a bicycle can get you from A to B at little cost, but there's no doubting a car will do it in more comfort and style.

FSX (as will be FS11) is the future and I recommend giving it a go.

BTW, if you're not getting good performance with FSX using medium spec hardware then there's something wrong with your hardware and/or software setup.

Just my 2 bobs worth :)

Ken.

I've must of missed this somewhere, can you tell me about Orbit FTX?

Matt Olieman

[Kennair]

Matt your missing out if you haven't experienced a great Aussie innovation in scenery. FTX stands for Full Terrain Experience and it's the commercial arm of Vista Australis, the freeware Australian scenery design team. The scenery is so realistic you have to pinch yourself when flying over it to see if your dreaming it or not. Take a look at some of the screenshots HERE (http://fullterrain.com/features.html). The real bonus with this scenery however is that it uses a proprietry software engine that actually speeds up your simming. Don't ask me how but this extra detailed scenery runs faster than stock! Who cares how if it works though! Only Australian scenery at this stage however, but we're a big country.

Check it out. Oh, of course you have to be running FSX, sorry Matt ;)

Ken.

P.S. Take a look at the YMML promo video for the full experience HERE (http://vimeo.com/1695128).

[mauriceb]

Damn, why does Maurice have to be so right.... LOL I'm embarrassed :roll:

Matt Olieman


I'm just trying to stimulate the US economy here. Buy, buy, buy otherwise us Canadians will suffer as well :roll: :D

But here is a lesson in History 101

.New FS versions will almost always need new hardware

.The next FS version will very likely be better than the one you have now

.Your current hardware will be obsolete as soon as you walk away from the store

.You can cry all you want about how unfair it is that you need new hardware to run the current FS version, but this is how a free market & free enterprise works.

. These discussions about the benefits/shortcomings of new FS versions are now & will always be pointless except as a form of 'entertainment' in the forums. Like religion & politics, you will seldom if ever convince someone who does not share your views, although it can be fun trying.

. The only difference between flight simulation & marriage is that even though you may love your wife/better half, newer models are very tempting at times. With marriage, very expensive (& dangerous) to try on new models; with flight simulation, very expensive (& not so dangerous) to try on new models.

Maurice

[mlscotti]

WOw.. I swear last month the support was for a faster dual core, now were back to quad core...

Any one know a better place to look for one of these Asus super computers? I've been watching tiger direct and new egg and the prices are getting within reach, especially the Bare Bones computers,but...... I figure xmas time will be better to upgrade


Running FSX on P-4 with soon to be 4G's of Ram NEtworked on 5 computers.

[Matt Olieman]

Matt your missing out if you haven't experienced a great Aussie innovation in scenery. FTX stands for Full Terrain Experience and it's the commercial arm of Vista Australis, the freeware Australian scenery design team. The scenery is so realistic you have to pinch yourself when flying over it to see if your dreaming it or not. Take a look at some of the screenshots HERE (http://fullterrain.com/features.html). The real bonus with this scenery however is that it uses a proprietry software engine that actually speeds up your simming. Don't ask me how but this extra detailed scenery runs faster than stock! Who cares how if it works though! Only Australian scenery at this stage however, but we're a big country.

Check it out. Oh, of course you have to be running FSX, sorry Matt ;)

Ken.

P.S. Take a look at the YMML promo video for the full experience HERE (http://vimeo.com/1695128).

Quite impressive..... speechless :) :) :)

Matt Olieman

[Mr. Midnight]

gotta love this site,

as i said my dual core 8500 just got here from newwegg.

im just wanting the best that is out there to make my system run at its best.

when i was running fs9 , i had all kinds of software loaded and was adding more and more to make it look and run better.

when fsx came out as you good folks say it wanted a good system to run on, now that they have good systems to run on , can i load up software, scenery, radar contact, wideview, and all those nice planes , and weather engines, and etc.etc. and more etc.

i would love to run FSX , becuase i to like to stay up on technology, but it seems that FSX wants you to fly it there way and force you to upgrade and upgrade and upgrade.

what sytem will allow me to absolutely get all of these things without me having to spend so much time tweaking instead of injoying.

is it possible to get 20 fps from a powerful computer no matter what i throw at it.

and im not talking abut just running FSX and a few good planes and such.

from a desktop viewpoint i can see where folks get all of what they want out of the games, but from simmers like us that are not satisfied with just desktop , flying , nnnnoooo we have to build one and want more.

so here is a question for you hardcore simmers, are you using FSX just like FS9, and the only upgrade you did was get a better computer, or did FSX force you to take less than what you got with FS9,

even from a year ago im still seeing folks on other sites still having upgrade problems with FSX, and now im hearing about FS11.

im hoping that it will slow down a little so that i can keep up with it so that i can design my pit around the best that is out there.

because in reality all i want to do is fly, but as usual i have the bug to have the best that is out there.

Thanks for listening...........Robert

[AchillesP]

Well well well

I recieved my new pc today morning. I installed vista 64bit for test and installed fsx. I put everythink to ultra high, checked everythink including bloom. Went to KJFK, morning with real weather. A lot of clounds. I would say many black clouds. The AI traffic was so big. A lot of cars inside the airport. At my left side, a lot of skyscreapers.

I desided to press shift-z. I closed my eyes and open them again.

I do not believe that. 39 FRAMES. I pressed S to have an out view. FU.... Frames went to 31. Made a 360 view turn and NO SLUTTERS. Pressed slew and went to 4000 ft. Frames 54.

Then installed aerosoft EDDF. Same setting as before(Ultra high). Unbeliavable. Frames 43. BETTER. 360 view and no slutters.

I unchecked bloom and earn 3 frames. No big deal.

I AM ABLE TO FLY FSX:p
I AM VERY HAPPY:roll:

[Matt Olieman]

Achilles, what's in your new PC?

Matt Olieman

[oal331]

I AM ABLE TO FLY FSX:p
I AM VERY HAPPY:roll:
Hi Achilles,
I'm also happy about your new PC, i can understand your happiness with this new "toy",

.......but i need more than 1.200euros to buy ONLY the CPU :(


So........ i prefer to invest these 2000 euros (at low cost stock prices :p :D :razz:), than to buy a FSX-pc and remain in FS9 for the moment.

I would like to upgrade later to FSX, (ok, it is really better than Fs9), according available add-ons, like new aircrafts and new sceneries.


Eddie

[oal331]

Achilles, what's in your new PC?

Matt Olieman

Achilles said that it is based in new Intel's CPU QX9770
See here for more details : http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/intel_qx9770/


Eddie

[Matt Olieman]

Eddie you're right..... OUCH!!! Big crunch in the pocket book. But happy for Achilles that he got his dream machine :) LOL

Matt Olieman

[AchillesP]

Achilles, what's in your new PC?

Matt Olieman

Specs.

Case : Thermatech with watercooling
Motherboard : Asus rampage extreme
CPU : QX9770
RAM : DDR3 1600Mhz 2Gig
Disk : 2 x velicraptor SATA II 300Gig
GPU : 1 x 4870x2

The cpu is overclocked for now to 3,8Ghz. Just entered the bios and made the multiplier from 8 to 9.5 x 400. I did not read yet the motherboard manual and how to make it 4 or 4,4 Ghz. Anyway the temperature remains bellow 40 at full load.

I did not yet optimize the ati card with the latest drivers.
I did not yet defrag my pc.

So, all the bellow frames that I mentioned before will belong in the past in the next few hours. I am saying that I will get better of cource.

[AchillesP]

Finally FSX is for breakfast with the QX9770.

I will prepare a video with fraps asap.

[AchillesP]

Hi,

I return to XP. Vista DX10 with 3-add ons (Aerosoft) does not work.

[Matt Olieman]

I don't know about anyone else Achilles, but, I'm sitting here anxiously waiting to see what happens...... You got to make it work Achilles :) :) :)

I'm rooting for you, " GO Achilles!!!!!!"

Matt Olieman

[arwinpoon]

Achilles,

Are you using th2go in stretch mode when you took these figures or was it just the one monitor solution. What graphics card are u using.

[Mr. Midnight]

if i had 1300 dollars i might go out and buy the chip.
and that aint including all the go withs.

so this will make FSX the most expensive game in history to go out and buy a com just to run it at a above normal pace.
and i would , but will that mean when FS11 comes out , and you know it will demand that i go out and upgrade again.

because The Intel QX9770 will be old news next week , and a super QX 10000 will be out.:)


so i guess i have to decide if im a geek or a sim pilot:)

heh heh heh

[AchillesP]

Achilles,

Are you using th2go in stretch mode when you took these figures or was it just the one monitor solution. What graphics card are u using.

Currently tests made with 1920 x 1080 resolutions. But 4870x2 shows the power from this resolution and above (5760 x 1080 three views). And do not forget. I did not yet installed the second one (crossfire). And reading the ati forums, officially they say that the power of the card still remains slow due to drives. They expect 30..40% more power in the next drivers.

At lease I resolved the problem with the slutters. With the qx9770 I am able to turn every setting to the right (Please give an FSX SP3 with more settings:shock:)

Now, the only think to do is to install the second card and see the results. Of course all those with Vista 64bit and DX9 (Not DX10 because of problems with add-ons) but I will try also in XP 32 bit to see what OS will go finally.

[Matt Olieman]

Excellent thread thanks to Achilles!!!!! :) :) :)

I anxiously wait your continued results on your adventure. So continue to keep us posted please :) :) :)

Matt Olieman

[Matt Olieman]

Achilles, please give us an update on your system. I'm following in your footsteps got the Rampage MB and VelociRaptor on the way. Still need memory and the Graphic, plan on getting the EVGA896-P3.

I would like to know what DDR3 1600 memory you are using and why are you using two 300 Gig drives rather then just one. Also, what cooling system are you using?

Thanks,
Matt Olieman

[AchillesP]

Achilles, please give us an update on your system. I'm following in your footsteps got the Rampage MB and VelociRaptor on the way. Still need memory and the Graphic, plan on getting the EVGA896-P3.

I would like to know what DDR3 1600 memory you are using and why are you using two 300 Gig drives rather then just one. Also, what cooling system are you using?

Thanks,
Matt Olieman

Hi Matt,

1.) Try to find this case (Thermaltake Swordm Lcs VD500LBNA). It has a watercool already installed.

2.) Try to find this memory (Corsair RAM DDR3 4GB KIT 1600C7DHX). It is XMS memory especially designed for the motherboard you bought.

3.) I use 2 x 300Gb, because I did a dual boot (Xp 32bit and Vista 64bit) in one disk and fsx to the other one.

4.) If you buy this card, you will not be able to to sli. X48 chipset supports only one Nvidia or Ati crossfire (Two or more cards).

* Do not forget CPU 45nm tecnhology. With this motherboard you can overclock the cpu very easy.

Yestrerday, I finished with the second installation (Vista 64bit). Now I have dual boot.

* Vista 64bit Advandages : Video shader. Means that with DX10 and all sliders at max, the performanve is great. Approximattely 100 fps. Really supprised. And the effects are great with the bloom effect. Gives another dimension in flight.

* Vista 64bit Dissadvandages : DX10 does not support scenaries:-?
* Vista 64bit Dissadvandages : DX9 does support scenaries but performance sucks with a lot of slutters due to ATI drivers:-?

So, I was very confused. DX9 or DX10?:cry:

And the answer came after a google search. Addon Converter X http://www.flightsimtools.com/adconvx/

This tool claims that convert all of the old sceneries (Fs2004) into FSX format in DX9 or DX10 mode. If this is true, defenitally I will go with Vista 64Bit DX10 and this converter.

I will test this tool today and I will come back with the results.

[LUFTY]

even though i have already gotten the dual core , i was told that a quad core would have been better for FSX.

im wondering if you good folks can expand on that.

thanks....Robert
Hi Robert

Basically the Service Packs for FSX have enabled a programming technique called multithreading which means FSX can put different processing tasks onto different CPU cores.

So for instance AI traffic could run on one core, the weather can be calculated on another etc. etc.

In this way a quad core at 2.4 GHz gives you 9.6 GHz of processing power providing the application is programmed to multithread processing tasks.

A dual core at the same 2.4 GHz gives you 4.8 GHz of processing power.

In reality applications are rarely 100% efficient with multithreading and consequently you do not get the full benefit of multiple cores.

FS9 is not written for multithreading of processing tasks so consequently in theory there is no performance difference between a single, dual or quad core processor.

There is a slight advantage to dual or quad cores is that other tasks such as the windows operating system, antivirus etc. can use one core leaving the other core dedicated to FS9.

Therefore in summary as a general rule a 3.0 GHz single core would give better performance for FS9 that a 2.4 GHz quad core whereas a dual core 2.4 GHz processor would give a better performance than a 3.0 GHz single core using FSX and a quad core 2.4 GHz processor would give better performance than a 2.4 GHz dual core.

I hope this helps

Kind regards


Lufty

[Matt Olieman]

Just an update. I finally got my "Super Duper" computer going.... HOORAY!!!!! Thanks for the help from AchillesP :) :) :)

Got the following:

Thermaltake Case
Thermaltake Liquid Cooler
Thermaltake 750 Wat PSU (not big enough) Will get a 1200+
ASUS Extreme Rampage MB (Liquid cooled and Absolutely fantastic)
Radeon HD 4870 X2 (will be liquid cooled next week)
Intel Quad Q6700, LGA775, 2.66 Ghz, 8MB L2 Cache, 1066 MHz FSB
2 Gig DDR3 1600 MHz (got another two, but the PSU couldn't handle it)
Currently running it with XP Pro, for now it seems to work better then Vista

Overclocked to 3.51 GHz

And some fine tuning by Achilles of FSX, Sliders all the way over on a Full Thunderstorm at KJFK, I get about 40 fps

Running FS9 Sliders all the way over same scenario at KJFK 105 fps.

I'm one happy camper :) :) :)

Thanks again AchillesP for your help :) :) :)

Matt Olieman

[oal331]

Thanks Matt for sharing.... !!!!

Btw, how much did you cost this system?

Eddie

[Matt Olieman]

Eddie, roughly I got about 2k USD into it.

It's taken me about over 9 months of buying bits and pieces and looking for sales. Nice thing about this system is I can use the CPU 45 nm technology into it, also a second HD4870 X2 (crossfire), once prices come down a bit :) :) :)

Matt Olieman

[LUFTY]

Eddie, roughly I got about 2k USD into it.

It's taken me about over 9 months of buying bits and pieces and looking for sales. Nice thing about this system is I can use the CPU 45 nm technology into it, also a second HD4870 X2 (crossfire), once prices come down a bit :) :) :)

Matt Olieman
Hi Matt

I have seen little if any benefit in dual graphics cards generally because the CPU seems to be the bottle neck even with a Quad Core QX9650 overclocked to 4 GHz.

I would save your money on the second HD4870X2 from my experiences with various graphic cards and CPU configurations.

Regards


Lufty

[Matt Olieman]

Thanks Lufty, I appreciate your input :)

Matt Olieman

[Mr. Midnight]

hello folks im just going to wait , untill i can get the best bang for a buck.

im wanting the best cpu chip i can get before i build, im just collecting all the data i can before i buy.

i will have about 1400 bucks after christmas, and i want to get the best chip can and be ready for fs11.

im hearing about new and faster hard drives that im researching.

with that kind of cash flow i will wait and see what i can get.

it seems like when you buy its out of date, so i will get the best chip i can afford that will run fsx10-11 without problems.

im thinking i will spend about 400-500 bucks for a cpu chip that will do the job.

any ideas will be greatly needed.

i have the 8500 chip that i will use as a secondary computer.

thanks..........Robert

[LUFTY]

Hi Matt

I have seen little if any benefit in dual graphics cards generally because the CPU seems to be the bottle neck even with a Quad Core QX9650 overclocked to 4 GHz.

I would save your money on the second HD4870X2 from my experiences with various graphic cards and CPU configurations.

Regards


Lufty
Hi Everyone

Just to add a quick update ...

With the latest i7 Intel processor the performance of the graphics card starts to come back to the fore again.

The trouble with performance tuning is that the bottleneck is nearly always the slowest component and this was the processor until the i7 Intel processor was released.

Having eliminated the processor bottleneck (to some degree) the graphics card starts to have an impact on performance which is why balanced components is important.

If you can put up with the current issues with third party addons and DX10 preview (scenery and textures on addon aircraft etc.) then I recommend DX10 preview mode and either dual graphics cards in Crossfire configuration or an intregrated Crossfire card such as the HD4870X2.

ATI and Nvidia have just reduced their prices for their top end cards which helps although they are still relatively expensive.

The new range of cards should be out in Q2 of this year which will no doubt raise the bar.

All of this on the assumption you are using an i7 processor of course as processor is still the top bottleneck for FSX.

By the way with DX10 and i7 the load on the second, third and fourth cores is reduced substantually.

Kind regards


Lufty

[AchillesP]

If you can put up with the current issues with third party addons and DX10 preview (scenery and textures on addon aircraft etc.) then I recommend DX10 preview mode and either dual graphics cards in Crossfire configuration or an intregrated Crossfire card such as the HD4870X2.

Hi,

There is a tool (module) that converts dx9 grafics to dx10 compatible mode. You just install the module and the converter works at the backround. White textures problem at dx10 preview has gone away for me at most of the cases. The tool is avaliable from

http://www.flightsimtools.com/adconvx/

From the site


Addon Converter X is a plugin for FSX that makes many add-on aircraft and sceneries developed for FS2004 compatible with FSX SP2 and FSX Acceleration Pack.
Many existing aircraft and sceneries suffer display problems with these FSX versions, such as missing textures or missing scenery objects in the DirectX 10 mode. Addon Converter X resolves many of these problems on the fly, thus allowing you to enjoy thousands of sceneries and aircraft developed for previous Flight Simulator versions with FSX.
Addon Converter X does not modify any files you have installed in FSX. It performs conversions on the fly as FSX is loading files. You don't have to "convert" any add-ons you are installing. Simply copy them into FSX, and Addon Converter X will make any necessary changes automatically.

New in version 1.02

Ability to fix pre-FS2004 objects made with SCASM (this should resolve issues with many payware sceneries).
Ability to fix virtual traffic aircraft that are not in Aircraft and Rotorcraft subfolders.
Bugfix: Missing virtual cockpit textures in aircraft with more than 32767 polygons.
Bugfix: Some aircraft parts were showing up as semitransparent.

[LUFTY]

Hi,

There is a tool (module) that converts dx9 grafics to dx10 compatible mode. You just install the module and the converter works at the backround. White textures problem at dx10 preview has gone away for me at most of the cases. The tool is avaliable from

http://www.flightsimtools.com/adconvx/


Hi Achilles

Yes I have come across this tool before but never tried it. I was not aware that it also worked with scenery files.

Out of interest have you tried it with Heathrow 2008 from Aerosoft which has some DX10 runway texture problems ?

Many thanks


Lufty

[AchillesP]

Hi Achilles

Yes I have come across this tool before but never tried it. I was not aware that it also worked with scenery files.

Out of interest have you tried it with Heathrow 2008 from Aerosoft which has some DX10 runway texture problems ?

Many thanks


Lufty

Hi Lufty,

No. Not at Heathrow, but I can confirm that works at FrankfurtX of Aerosoft.

If a scenery is made for FSX at DX9 mode, then 99% (100% 3d objects) (50% ground textures) works with this tool with DX10 preview enabled.

[AchillesP]

Hi Again,

In case of DX10 mode, then better memory shader is avaliable and the GPU can get all the load of maximized settings with out any problem. Tested with ATI 4870x2 and Nvidia GTX280.