Breakthrough in motors?

[gflinch]

Ok,

Haven't been around for a while, but have been lurking and thinking. Pretty close to STARTING my actual project. Had an idea while laying in bed tonight, would CORDED drill motors work?

pluses I can think of:

1) They are all reversible
2) You can get them with decent torque/amps
3) They should be pretty durable because of their designed use
4) Best of all they are easy to find and cheap

Anyone else have comments? This is just a brainstorm, so I haven't thought out too much.

So these could be used instead of wiper motors, right?


Greg

[Jim NZ]

Hi Greg,
You got my vote on this one ... Great idea :D

You wouldnt be able to use steering boxes though due to the back-force problem (No worm gear in a drill) BUT if you coupled a drill to a reduction gearbox that had a right-angle worm drive in it ... Your away laughing. :D :D

Great thought !!!

Jim NZ
www.jimspage.co.nz

[gflinch]

Any idea where I maybe able to find a gear reduction box?

I don't think I seem to be understanding the whole backforce/worm gear problem. Got any diagrams laying around? :)

Maybe getting a couple of washer motors and using the gearing part with a drill motor would work?

Greg

[Jim NZ]

Greg, Worm drive reduction gearbox's are very expensive and that is the killer.
To give you an idea of what they are http://www.penfold.co.nz/products_wormgearmotors.html
Worm drive box's generally have the input shaft at right angles to the out put shaft.
You can turn the input shaft and the output shaft will rotate (Obviously) but if you try to turn the output shaft,,, the input shaft wont turn.,, if fact ,, nothing will turn.
This is what we need to overcome the backforce.

Backforce is where,,, imagine the sim is stationary, no power is going to the motor, you are in the sim and there is weight down on the drive/gearbox or whatever. It must stay in its "stopped" position and not force the motor to go around and hence ,, the platform would drop or roll. We dont want the motor to be "forced" to go around with the weight on it.

In my setup, the steering box is not a true worm drive but it does restrict the force going backwards thru it. The rest is held in the stopped position with the worm drive that is in the wipermotor gearbox.

just while you are laterally thinking all this, one thing I didnt research because I live miles from the coast,, was what sort of drives were on those capstan winchs on yaughts etc ??? If they were worm drives then depending on rev's,, load,, etc then they could be a possability... MAYBE !!! Still cost though, dont they.


mmmm Washing machine gearbox's .... Dont know Greg .. sorry... there are a million different types.

Hope this is of help ... Jim NZ
www.jimspage.co.nz

[gflinch]

Yes this helps a lot. I had that idea about the backforce, but wasn't sure.

My whole idea is keeping this relatively simple and inexpensive, just as you have, otherwise I would have gone the stepper motor/gear motor route (ouch=cost).

My thinking here about the drill motors is the higher torque and rpm compared to the wiper motors for quicker response (remember I am building this for a fighter).

Wiper motors are fairly inexpensive here in salvage yards as well as the steering boxes, So.... do you think it is possible to just disassemble the wipermotors and adapt a different motor to it for the worm gear setup?

Greg

[Roland]

Keep in mind that most electric motors with gearboxes cannot handle quick reverse action like needed in motion platform.
In this thread http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?t=225439 you can read how someone damaged both gears of heavy duty electric scooter motors due to sudden torque changes.
A softstart like Jim implemented could save the gears, but would reduce the quick surges that fighter plane motion would need.

Roland
www.simprojects.nl

[gflinch]

Roland,

I saw your site and have to say that I am very impressed, you have accomplished a lot. I see the video you made, it looks like your doing what I am trying to do.

Yes I did see that thread about what happened with the scooter motors. I was thinking that the drills would be strong enough to handle that kind of abuse, maybe I am wrong.

Another thought would be to just make a soft-start sim... thinking... SOME motion is better than NONE???

I'm just determined (as well as you all) to figure out an economical way to make this work, without spending $15,000 on a commercial sim platform, which does EXACTLY what I want... :)

[bishoff7]

Hi all
For my two bobs worth I have followed one of jims sugestions.(Thanks Jim) I have been mucking about with a power steering pump linked to an old ford power steering box with a wiper motor driven from a pwm unit and it is a winner so far ,cheap and reliable . With most of the load being carried by the power steering unit and not the wiper motor it is sure to give the system a fairly low maintenance agenda . I have only one axis operating at the moment and with my 95kgs of rear end on it it is about 2.5 seconds for a total 48 degrees of pitch which is more than twice the value most of you require . this speed can be increased as I am only driving the pump with an old 1/4 hp 240 ac motor out of an old concrete mixer with the belt reduction the pump is only doing about 350 rpm.
I will put a larger motor on soon with a larger drive pulley and will expect a fair increase in platform speed Iwill do some load tests on the power steering when I put some more hp into it and post the results if anyone is interested.
.
The bit that I dont seem to be able to come to grips with so far is how to get the multiple monitor setup to make a smooth transition between forward ,forward left and left can anybody fill me in on a few tips on what to do?
Regards Bish :D

[AndyT]

:idea: I posted a while back that I had thought of using power winches for my drives and I was hoping someone would comment on this. They can handle a tremendous amount of weight and they should be able to interface with the steering mechanisim fairly easily. (I hope! 8) )

I have no idea if they have the problem of 'backlash' but I would'nt think so. They also have the advantage of having the center spindle already setup for mounting a gear. That makes it easier to adapt them for higher speed simpits such as fighter jets and the like. They could be chain driven or direct link or direct gear mesh.

Comments PLEASE?! :?:

[yoss]

Hi guys

i am new on this forum, not so in pit building

Wonder why nobody using car jacks as i platform lifting devices--they are very cheap , common, and containing screw gear

As well pheumatic jacks could be interesting for this purpose

Just an idea

regards

Joseph

[Prof Bill]

I have no idea how matters have progressed in this area but for those who are interested in using electric battery operated drills and/or car jacks might well find the following jack a very good starting point for their platform.

I have removed/modified a gear to increase the speed and managed to mantain sufficient torque to move a balanced experimental platform quickly!

I have not persued this solution as I have some other alternative in development.

http://www.generatordepot.us/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=37

Enjoy,

Bill.

[Deesystems]

Ive used Kaman Bearing (An Office located next town over) for most of my different project supplies

https://ec.kamandirect.com/projectfiles/browse.jhtml

[AndyT]

We had an old motorized wheelchair come in to be demolished and I took the 2 motors from it. They are 12 volt motors and they should provide plenty of torque.

[simppa]

Hello everyone,
I am new to this site. I am glad i found this forum. I am been dreaming of motionplatform for a long time. I made some queries to China about wormgear reducer with motors. Prices ranged from 67 us dollars to 135 . motor ranging from 025kw to 2.2 kw. Output speed ranging from187 to 23.those same wormgears witout motor where from 37 to 67 usa dollars.
what price range is westernmade motor wormgear reducer units.
could someone shed some light to question what kind of motor reducer unit would be optimal for 200 kg to 300 kg payload platform.

[Westozy]

Hi guys, I once thought about building a full motion sim but it always ended up in the too hard basket where it still is today, but I am an engineer employed in the water industry. (pressure control valves, chlorination, chemical dosing). I appreciate fully what you are up against and offer this idea. My pit is on a steel frame and I guess it would be approaching 500kg with two people on board. If you have this type of weight balanced on your pivot point it doesn't take that much force to move it as I'm sure you all would know. I once contemplated using an inflated tractor tube as a pivot point and linear actuators (hydraulic rams) to move it. Not the hydraulic type, just simple cylinders made out of 6" diameter PVC pipe with a chevron and piston. These could be actuated using water pressure from the house with 24v retic solenoid controls. Imagine the lifting force of average domestic water supply at approximately 30metres/head acting on a 6" cylinder, this could lift a car for a tyre change. Speed could be controlled by flow control valves on the cylinder lines and construction would be relatively cheap. Exhaust water could be fed to a tank for recycling. There are water powered actuators already being used to open farmers gates etc. I know it's not a good idea to have water near the electronics of a sim but it may be a plausible idea, who knows. Good luck to all the 'motion' crew...

Gwyn

[nexarone]

Hi Simppa,

Not sure if this thread is still active. Those prices you quoted are fantastic! Can you tell me the China source? Thanks.

Cheers,
ncc


Hello everyone,
I am new to this site. I am glad i found this forum. I am been dreaming of motionplatform for a long time. I made some queries to China about wormgear reducer with motors. Prices ranged from 67 us dollars to 135 . motor ranging from 025kw to 2.2 kw. Output speed ranging from187 to 23.those same wormgears witout motor where from 37 to 67 usa dollars.
what price range is westernmade motor wormgear reducer units.
could someone shed some light to question what kind of motor reducer unit would be optimal for 200 kg to 300 kg payload platform.

[simppa]

The following link is to one Chinese manufacturer.
http://www.jiaoxing.com/ep3-04.htm
They quoted the following

NMRV050-25-F1(OUTPUT FLANGE)-0.25kW motor USD67.05/SET
NMRV050-25-F1(OUTPUT FLANGE) USD37.05/PC

NMRV050-10-F1(OUTPUT FLANGE)-0.55kW motor USD78.05/SET
NMRV050-10-F1(OUTPUT FLANGE) USD37.05/PC

NMRV063-20/30-F1(OUTPUT FLANGE)-0.55kW motor USD91.56/SET
NMRV063-20/30-F1(OUTPUT FLANGE) USD50.56/PC

NMRV063-60-F1(OUTPUT FLANGE)-0.25kW motor USD80.56/SET
NMRV063-60-F1(OUTPUT FLANGE) USD50.56/PC

NMRV075-7.5-F1(OUTPUT FLANGE)-2.2kW motor USD135/SET
NMRV075-7.5-F1(OUTPUT FLANGE) USD67/PC
I am not sure if those applicable to motionplatform. My platform is still under planning stage.

[nexarone]

Thanks simppa. Have you bought any thing from them? I know that most China manufacturers aren't interested in small volume sales. There are only interested in container size sales :shock:

[Cheeso]

Hello all,

I'm following Ian, Jim and Roland's platform development closely. Yep, the bug has bitten me as well. :D

Would washing machine motors be suitable for a motion platform?

Thanks in advance,
Gerhard