Autothrottle response

[wbraat]

Hi all!

We have built a 737NG cockpit, using PM as the main software.
We use the CPFlight MCP and EFIS (PRO versions).
Eveyrthing is running on FS9 (FS2004)

The complete sim is running relatively accurate, but for a few issues.

The most critical is the next problem.
If we are cruising on FL 200, with AP en AT engaged, at a certain speed, assume 220 kts, and we increase the IAS on the MCP to 270 kts, ome would expect the throttle to advance rapidly to full power.

The same goes for altitude change. If we select altitude FL220 and press LVL CHG one would expect a rapid advance of the throttles.

In both case this does not work. The throttles advances **VERY** slow to full power, taking minutes to get the required airspeed or energy to climb.

The throttle we use is from CockpitSonic, and as Mathias says its levers only follow the simulator values.

Just to be sure: we use all the latest versions of the software!

Does anybody recognize this?

Regards, Willem

[AchillesP]

Hi all!

We have built a 737NG cockpit, using PM as the main software.
We use the CPFlight MCP and EFIS (PRO versions).
Eveyrthing is running on FS9 (FS2004)

The complete sim is running relatively accurate, but for a few issues.

The most critical is the next problem.
If we are cruising on FL 200, with AP en AT engaged, at a certain speed, assume 220 kts, and we increase the IAS on the MCP to 270 kts, ome would expect the throttle to advance rapidly to full power.

The same goes for altitude change. If we select altitude FL220 and press LVL CHG one would expect a rapid advance of the throttles.

In both case this does not work. The throttles advances **VERY** slow to full power, taking minutes to get the required airspeed or energy to climb.

The throttle we use is from CockpitSonic, and as Mathias says its levers only follow the simulator values.

Just to be sure: we use all the latest versions of the software!

Does anybody recognize this?

Regards, Willem

Hi,

Same unit, same problem. Also the driver stops responding and I have to restart my pc.

[blueskydriver]

Hey guys,

I dont own this throtlle assy, but I'm just curious about the USB connection that you're using to connect this unit. Are you connecting straight to the PC USB port or are you using a hub? Also, is the PC matching the USB interface of the throttle assy...example is the pc and throttle both 1.0, 1.1 or 2.0 USB or are they mis-matched.

I'm just guessing of course, but I've seen weird things happen while using hubs; both powered and non-powered, as well as using mis-matched USB versions . I hope this helps.

John

[oal331]

Hi,

Same unit, same problem. Also the driver stops responding and I have to restart my pc.

Achilles, do you use also the CockpitSonic's throttle?
Which offsets you are using to read the throttle's values?

Eddie

[AchillesP]

Achilles, do you use also the CockpitSonic's throttle?
Which offsets you are using to read the throttle's values?

Eddie

Hi,

Yes I use the cockpitsonic throttle. Offsets are reading from the driver of cockpitsonic. I have nothing to read.

[oal331]

I don't know how Cockpitsonic's drivers are working, but maybe there is a way to program them, or check which offsets values servos are using to move the throttle's levers. Maybe a question to Cockpitsonic about it, or use another IO servo system.

Anyone else with autothrottle servos here?


Eddie

[wbraat]

Hi! All hardware is matched on speed, but I really do not believe the issue is with the CockpitSonic throttle. It merely mimics the AT in hardware position. I assume it might have something to do with PM MCP, which drives the AT. I have been looking into the settings file of the MCP, but to no avail.

Also the CDU had a maintenance page (MAINT) which gets you to the A/T settings (bold are the actual values)

SPD%<11000FT 20
SPD%>11000FT 20
THR LIMIT% 20
LVL CHNG% 100
MACH % 20

THR SYNC OFF
AUTOCOORD OFF
FLARE AGL 40
F/D < 200KT 50
F/D > 200KT 20

Anybody any idea on the settings for a 737NG?

Regards, Willem

[oal331]

Hi! All hardware is matched on speed, but I really do not believe the issue is with the CockpitSonic throttle. It merely mimics the AT in hardware position. I assume it might have something to do with PM MCP, which drives the AT. I have been looking into the settings file of the MCP, but to no avail.

Also the CDU had a maintenance page (MAINT) which gets you to the A/T settings (bold are the actual values)

SPD%<11000FT 20
SPD%>11000FT 20
THR LIMIT% 20
LVL CHNG% 100
MACH % 20

THR SYNC OFF
AUTOCOORD OFF
FLARE AGL 40
F/D < 200KT 50
F/D > 200KT 20

Anybody any idea on the settings for a 737NG?

Regards, Willem

As i remember these PM's values have to do with how fast PM is respoding in diferent situations.

Anyway, what you mean saying "All hardware is matched on speed" ?
The servos have to read not the speed but propably the trottle's lever position or N1 or something similar

Here are the Fsuipc's offsets for Engine1

088C
152
ENGINE 1 values, as detailed below
088C
2
Engine 1 Throttle lever, –4096 to +16384
[Programs controlling throttle directly from user inputs should write to 089A instead if the input should be disconnectable via offset 310A (e.g. for auto-throttle management)]
Ok
Ok
088E
2
Engine 1 Prop lever, –4096 to +16384
Ok
Ok
0890
2
Engine 1 Mixture lever, 0 – 16384
Ok
Ok
0892
2
Engine 1 Starter switch position (Magnetos),
Jet/turbojet: 0=Off, 1=Start, 2=Gen
Prop: 0=Off, 1=right, 2=Left, 3=Both, 4=Start
Notes (for FS2K/CFS2):  Don‘t forget to switch fuel on to start (mixture to max). For FS2k type starting you need to set the ‗Start‘ value here and monitor the combustion flag (below). When that is set, change the starter switch to another position (Both or Gen). FS98 models start immediately but you should still adopt the
Ok
Ok
same procedure.  The Engine addressed by writes to this and the equivalent Engine 2–4 offsets will become selected (see 0888 above). It needs to stay selected during engine start, which means you can only start engines in sequence, not together. The original selection is restored automatically, however—but only when the starter is ‗released‘ by writing a non-start value here. FS98 prop planes transposed to FS2000 have misbehaving Magneto/Starter switch controls (whether FSUIPC is installed or not). You can start engines okay, but don‘t expect to be able to select the Magnetos reliably.
0894
2
Engine 1 combustion flag (TRUE if engine firing)
Ok
Ok
0896
2
Engine 1 Jet N2 as 0 – 16384 (100%). This also appears to be the Turbine RPM % for proper helo models (and now also for the FS2004 Robinson model and derivatives)
Ok
Ok
0898
2
Engine 1 Jet N1 as 0 – 16384 (100%), or Prop RPM (derive RPM by multiplying this value by the RPM Scaler (see 08C8) and dividing by 65536). Note that Prop RPM is signed and negative for counter-rotating propellers.
In FS2004 this also now gives the Robinson model‘s RPM, when scaled by the RPM scaler.
Ok
Ok
089A
2
Engine 1 Throttle lever, –4096 to +16384, same as 088C above except that values written here are treated like axis inputs and are disconnectable via offset 310A, and have the last written value obtainable from offset 3330
Ok
Ok
08A0
2
Engine 1 Fuel Flow PPH SSL (pounds per hour, standardised to sea level). Don‘t know units, but it seems to match some gauges if divided by 128. Not maintained in all cases.
Ok
Ok
08B2
2
Engine 1 Anti-Ice or Carb Heat switch (1=On)
Ok
Ok
08B8
2
Engine 1 Oil temperature, 16384 = 140 C.
Ok
Ok
08BA
2
Engine 1 Oil pressure, 16384 = 55 psi. Not that in some FS2000 aircraft (the B777) this can exceed the 16-bit capacity of this location. FSUIPC limits it to fit, i.e.65535 = 220 psi
Ok
Ok
08BC
2
Engine 1 Pressure Ratio (where calculated): 16384 = 1.60
Ok
Ok
08BE
2
Engine 1 EGT, 16384 = 860 C. [Note that for Props this value is not actually correct. For FS2004 at least you will get the correct value from 3B70. In FS2004 the value here has been derived by FSUIPC to be compatible with FS2002 et cetera]
Ok
Ok, but see text
08C0
2
Engine 1 Manifold Pressure: Inches Hg * 1024
Ok
Ok
08C8
2
Engine 1 RPM Scaler: For Props, use this to calculate RPM – see offset 0898
Ok
Ok
08D0
4
Engine 1 Oil Quantity: 16384 = 100% On FS2000 FSUIPC usually has to derive this from a leakage value as it isn‘t provided directly.
Ok
Ok
08D4
4
Engine 1 Vibration: 16384 = 5.0. This is a relative measure of amplitude from the sensors on the engine which when too high is an indication of a problem. The value at which you should be concerned varies according to aircraft and engine.
Ok
Ok
08D8
4
Engine 1 Hydraulic pressure: appears to be 4*psi
Ok
Ok
08DC
4
Engine 1 Hydraulic quantity: 16384 = 100%
Ok
Ok
08E8
8
Engine 1 CHT, degrees F in double floating point (FLOAT64)
Ok
Ok
08F0
4
Engine 1 Turbine temperature: degree C *16384, valid for FS2004 helo models
Ok
Ok
08F4
4
Engine 1 Torque % (16384 = 100%), valid for FS2004 helo models
Ok
Ok
08F8
4
Engine 1 Fuel pressure, psf (i.e. psi*144): not all aircraft files provide this, valid for FS2004 helo models.
Ok?
Ok
08FC
2?
Engine 1 electrical load, possibly valid for FS2004 helo models.
Ok?
0900
4
Engine 1 Transmission oil pressure (psi * 16384): for helos
Ok?
Ok
0904
4
Engine 1 Transmission oil temperature (degrees C * 16384): for helos
Ok?
Ok
0908
4
Engine 1 Rotor RPM % (16384=100%): for helos
Ok?
Ok
0918
8
Engine 1 Fuel Flow Pounds per Hour, as floating point double (FLOAT64)
Ok
Ok
0920
4
Engine 1 Torque, in FLOAT32 format, probably in ft-lbs. (not jets)
No
Ok

Can anyone change the way the throttle is programming, change from where to read and then control the movement ?

One more question, if you don't have autothrottle to have servos working, is does the throttle working without problems? Is is smooth, ie moving from idle to full power is fast enough?
How it works this, like usb joystick, or via writing offsets?

Eddie

[Thomas Richter]

Hi

The problem will not be the hardware because it does only check the position where the Lever(s) should be and drive them. If the given postion rises or reduces slowly the hardware does as well.

[oal331]

Hi

The problem will not be the hardware because it does only check the position where the Lever(s) should be and drive them. If the given postion rises or reduces slowly the hardware does as well.

Hi Thomas, glad to see you again :D

You are saying that the hardware is not the problem, so is the PM's software that has the slow reaction?
If this is tue, the movement have to be also slow in graphics throttle movements in 3D panel, right?
Do the values in CDU help for a better performace?

regards

Eddie

[Thomas Richter]

Hi


You are saying that the hardware is not the problem, so is the PM's software that has the slow reaction?
Yes, it depends on MCP.


If this is tue, the movement have to be also slow in graphics throttle movements in 3D panel, right?
Yes. But of course to get a more smooth movement of the throttles you need to drive also the servos with a "leak". That brings also some loss of time.


Do the values in CDU help for a better performace?
Not really in the way you would like to see / have.

It's a known longer issue in MCP.

[wbraat]

Hi Eddie and Thomas!

Thanks for your response. By matched to speed I meant that the USB interface from the CockpitSonic throttle is connected to a USB2.0, and not a USB1.1 (see one of the posts before)

Thomas: do you have any idea when this issue will be resolved? I have communicated this problem with Enrico and Jonathan, because it is a serious issue on the simulator. Jonathan replied that the issue was corrected but not implemented in the software. At that time release 428 of MCP was out...

Regards, Willem

[oal331]

It's a known longer issue in MCP.

Thanks for reply,


you and Jonathanyou are our contact and the only information we have from PM.

So, please be more often here in this forum, to help us, inform us.
The Pm´s customers/users we are a large community worldwide with many requests, questions, issues etc:cool:

thanks again

Eddie

[Thomas Richter]

Hi Eddie and Thomas!

Thanks for your response. By matched to speed I meant that the USB interface from the CockpitSonic throttle is connected to a USB2.0, and not a USB1.1 (see one of the posts before)

Thomas: do you have any idea when this issue will be resolved? I have communicated this problem with Enrico and Jonathan, because it is a serious issue on the simulator. Jonathan replied that the issue was corrected but not implemented in the software. At that time release 428 of MCP was out...

Regards, Willem

Hi

Sorry, but I don't know when this build or another one will release.
It depends on Enrico.