PM and FSX

[RGroebl]

Hi,

after 2 day´s of installation a new computer and FSX i give up. Befor 3 day´s my old FS9 SIM computer was going defect and I decided to change to Vista64 and FSX.

FSX alone running fine, but with PM I have big problems. Using the default 737-800 from the FSX I have big problems. After airborne pitch goes up to 6000 or greater and speed the same no chance to hold Vr +20. By using Autopilot and LVCHG the same speed is not correct holded, overshooting speed and pitch is up to 5000 or greater for a change of 2000 feet at example. So it´s impossible to fly.

Is someone here running FSX with PM and Boeing Suite?
Are there other with such problems?

I dont know how to search the failures, something must go wrong.

Thanks

Roland

[AchillesP]

Hi,

1.) flight dynamics of default aircraft are very bad.
2.) you need http://www.projectmagenta.com/downloads/builds/Aircraft/737-800_V4.zip

3.) latest fsuipc http://www.schiratti.com/files/dowson/FSUIPC4.zip?timestamp=160708


Hi,

after 2 day´s of installation a new computer and FSX i give up. Befor 3 day´s my old FS9 SIM computer was going defect and I decided to change to Vista64 and FSX.

FSX alone running fine, but with PM I have big problems. Using the default 737-800 from the FSX I have big problems. After airborne pitch goes up to 6000 or greater and speed the same no chance to hold Vr +20. By using Autopilot and LVCHG the same speed is not correct holded, overshooting speed and pitch is up to 5000 or greater for a change of 2000 feet at example. So it´s impossible to fly.

Is someone here running FSX with PM and Boeing Suite?
Are there other with such problems?

I dont know how to search the failures, something must go wrong.

Thanks

Roland

[marco]

Hi Roland,

Have you checked the NOTAM on the PM site, update section and after PM NOTAM? I've founded the following information :

"At this time, to use the MCP software with FSX you will have to disable the AP gauge in the FSX panel.cfg of the aircraft type you are using for flight with the PM / MCP software. Generally if not using a panel at all in MSFS, then the only section you need in the panel.cfg is the section referring to [VIEWS] everything else can be deleted. Please *always* keep a back-up of your original files in case you have to revert back.

Make sure you have this line in your FSUIPC4.ini (only FSX)

[General] section

FiddleMachForPM=Yes"

Hope it'll be the solution for your problem.

Good flights with PM

Best Regards from Belgium

Marco ;)

[RGroebl]

Hi,
thanks for fast replys.

Yes the latest FSUIPC was installed, CDU File from PM Side also installed and yes this line was entered in the FSUIPC config.

It´s very strange and I think I will do an rollback to FS9.

Regards

Roland

[Bob Reed]

Are you using the right version of FSUIPC? FSX uses a differant FSUIPC which you have to purcase. It is not the same program you use in FS9.

[RGroebl]

Hi Bob,

yes it´s the right version 4.4.

Regards

Roland

[blueskydriver]

For the Guys using FSX & PM,

I had the issues with the throttles, but that is solved. However, I see what Roland is seeing; the climb rate shoots up to 6000 FPM.

Here is exactly how I setup everything, so if I'm wrong please tell me:

1. Program CDU with Orgin/Dest KLSE-KMSP Via FGT FL1100
2. Ident the B737-800 (the same as Acilles aforementioned B738-7B26.txt)
3. Check POS
4. verify Route
5. Select PERF INIT
6. Put in the numbers for ZFW=108.6, FUEL=22.8, Fuel Reserves=5, Cost Index=99, Crz Alt=11000, Enter OAT= -7 C,
7. Goto N1 Limit select TO1 and CLB 1 =87.1 N1 Set T/R=800 (tried 1000 also)
8. Select TAKEOFF enter Flaps 10 (also tried 5 and 15) check V1=129, VR=130, V2=142
Values of 26.3K N1=83.6/83.6 CG=50% Pre-Flight Complete shows in CDU
9. Select Departure and Select RWY 36
10. Set MCP Values IAS MACH=250 (tried 162 that's V2+20), HDG= 358 (true Rwy Hdg), ALT=5000 (initial and also tried 11000), A/T ARM, F/D On
11. Set BARO=30.35 (Field 660FT), Set Flaps 10, RTO set, Pitot Heat On, Y/D On, Lights on
12. FMA reports ARM_BLANK_BLANK
13. Select TOGA, FMA reports THR REF_BLANK_TO/GA, MCP lights up N1 and HDG SEL, EICAS Shows D-TO 1 (in green) and 83.6 over both engines N1 (in green), and shows TRIM 8.5, T/O Roll begins
14. V1, VR Rotate to 15 degrees (3 degrees/sec), Postivie Climb, Gear up, Flaps Up at numbers
15. FMA=THR HLD_HSG SEL_TO/GA, then ARM_HDG SEL_TO/GA
16. At 800 AGL (tried 1000) and when I select CMD A (CMD Shows in PFD) this is where weird stuff starts:

17. FMA shows THR REF_HDG SEL_MCP SPD
18. The IAS changes to 162 (although I set it too 250kts); however, I'm at 218 kts already because this is what TO/GA (N1) had put me at and the rate of climb goes up to 25 degrees and shows 6100 FPM.
19. Since the IAS is now 162 deceleration drops to 208kts and rate of climb backs down to 5100 FPM. FMA Shows MCP SPD_HDG SEL_ALT ACQ.
20. Level off and deceleration to 174, 165, 163, and then I reset it to 250 kts because its going to slow. Now it gradually accelerates to 250 (as if it should be in a climb, but I'm level at 5000.

I have all the latest updates of:

FSUIPC 4.40/WideFS 6.7, PM (GC, CDU, MCP)
Navigraph CG, CDU Data as Dec 1, 2008
WINXP Pro
FSX SP2

Add-Ons Aircraft Collection and Ultimate Traffic 2007,
and I use the B737-800 default aircraft with a Northwest Livery (livery only).

I do have the changes made to the Aircraft panel.cfg, the FSUIPC.ini FiddleMachForPM=Yes and the tweaks for FSX for AutoGen of Trees and the others that deal with scenery. And, if I didn't say this already, I am using the FDS MCP with G2 card and MCP verison rel 1.09.

Finally, I've tried this over and over, yet I get the same results with the Rate of Climb going straight up to 6000 FPM. Maybe, someone has a fix for this?

John

[dvincent]

Hello,

It could be a wrong trim setting, Check wich button the trim is assigned to.

Greetz,

Dirk

[blueskydriver]

Dirk,

It's not trim settings; the AP would control that once engaged. But, you do have a point, what is the normal trim value to be shown in the EICAS when lined on the rwy and still on the ground?

John

[JonathanRichardson]

>10. Set MCP Values IAS MACH=250 (tried 162 that's V2+20),

Set V2 only.

>16. At 800 AGL (tried 1000) and when I select CMD A (CMD Shows in PFD) this is where weird stuff starts:
17. FMA shows THR REF_HDG SEL_MCP SPD

If you select the AP at this phase it will engage a speed mode and that will be LVL CH - at this phase, LVL CH will command the FD to fly V2+20.

>18. The IAS changes to 162 (although I set it too 250kts);

Correct. It will do this. But it depends on current airspeed.

>however, I'm at 218 kts already because this is what TO/GA (N1) had put me at and the rate of climb goes up to 25 degrees and shows 6100 FPM.

Flight model, load etc etc. The speed is controlled by pitch not AT in this mode, if your a/c is incorrectly loaded or very light, or perhaps a bad model (any number of things) it will go up fast, perhaps even correctly with low GW.

>19. Since the IAS is now 162 deceleration drops to 208kts and rate of climb backs down to 5100 FPM.

You are putting the a/c and whole system into a really tough situation, you would have to be very quick to handle that. If the speed is more than 20kts above V2+20 then it should take current speed. I will check that to be sure.

>FMA Shows MCP SPD_HDG SEL_ALT ACQ.
20. Level off and deceleration to 174, 165, 163, and then I reset it to 250 kts because its going to slow. Now it gradually accelerates to 250 (as if it should be in a climb, but I'm level at 5000.

I will double check this re the LVLCH first speed logic at higher than V2+20kts when it is first engaged. There are some options for this. But also I think you need to give yourself half a chance and get the a.c model / weights sorted out.

>Finally, I've tried this over and over, yet I get the same results with the Rate of Climb going straight up to 6000 FPM. Maybe, someone has a fix for this?

Whilst the default models do have some limitations, I think it sounds like you are flying with very little weight, What is your GW? Have you entered the perf page correctly?

Regards
Jonathan Richardson
Project Magenta

[blueskydriver]

Jonathan,

Thank you for helping me and our other flight sim pilots here in MYC. I really do appreciate all your valuable time.

First, I reset the weights and as I compared them to what's in my previous posting they were low. So, I made sure FSX fuel and payload was set, and then I put the numbers in the CDU PERF INT page. The Max gross weight for this is 155,500 and I have it now as 153,560. (Empty + Fuel + Payload). This made a difference for sure.

It reduced the speed and ROC. I did set the MCP SPD to V2, but I still see speeds a little higher then that. What I just did was set the Aircraft->fuel and payload page in FSX. I see that after doing that the values in the PERF INT page change to values I entered in FSX, so does that mean if I type the values into the PERF INT page they will be sent to the fuel and payload page of FSX?


I responded to your other answers below, so if I'm still getting something wrong just let me know. look for -->

>10. Set MCP Values IAS MACH=250 (tried 162 that's V2+20),

Set V2 only.

--> Okay, set it to that.

>16. At 800 AGL (tried 1000) and when I select CMD A (CMD Shows in PFD) this is where weird stuff starts:
17. FMA shows THR REF_HDG SEL_MCP SPD

If you select the AP at this phase it will engage a speed mode and that will be LVL CH - at this phase, LVL CH will command the FD to fly V2+20.

--> On this, I saw the LVL CH come on when I engaged AP.

>18. The IAS changes to 162 (although I set it too 250kts);

Correct. It will do this. But it depends on current airspeed.

-->I'm not sure I understand this, if the Airspeed is lower that makes sense, but if the Airspeed is higher, it's going to slow back down even though the N1 is commanding the speeds to begin with and placed the aircraft at a higher airspeed and still in a climb?

>however, I'm at 218 kts already because this is what TO/GA (N1) had put me at and the rate of climb goes up to 25 degrees and shows 6100 FPM.

Flight model, load etc etc. The speed is controlled by pitch not AT in this mode, if your a/c is incorrectly loaded or very light, or perhaps a bad model (any number of things) it will go up fast, perhaps even correctly with low GW.

-->The flight model is the B738-7B26.txt file and the model in FSX is the default 737-800 with nothing in panel.cfg except views. The CG is at 50% in the PM CDU and I did change the GW. If the pitch is controlling and I'm at 15 degrees shouldn't the speed be somewhat study slow increase or the same (depending on Flap reduction of course)?

>19. Since the IAS is now 162 deceleration drops to 208kts and rate of climb backs down to 5100 FPM.

You are putting the a/c and whole system into a really tough situation, you would have to be very quick to handle that. If the speed is more than 20kts above V2+20 then it should take current speed. I will check that to be sure.

-->I am doing the standard setup procedure and engaging the AP after 800 or 1000 AGL and I think I have all the preset items right (see previous post)?

>FMA Shows MCP SPD_HDG SEL_ALT ACQ.
20. Level off and deceleration to 174, 165, 163, and then I reset it to 250 kts because its going to slow. Now it gradually accelerates to 250 (as if it should be in a climb, but I'm level at 5000.

I will double check this re the LVLCH first speed logic at higher than V2+20kts when it is first engaged. There are some options for this. But also I think you need to give yourself half a chance and get the a.c model / weights sorted out.

-->Okay, I really looked hard at the AC and Weights and yes more weight makes a difference, but I would not fully load an aircraft with fuel if it was only going a short distance. So, heavy works, but lighter does not? Can you tell me about the LVL CHG options?

>Finally, I've tried this over and over, yet I get the same results with the Rate of Climb going straight up to 6000 FPM. Maybe, someone has a fix for this?

Whilst the default models do have some limitations, I think it sounds like you are flying with very little weight, What is your GW? Have you entered the perf page correctly?

--> The GW weight was 130K and now it's 154k. Still with the heavier weight I still see 3000-4000 FPM, is that the normal expected range for a climb say up to 5000 @15 degrees. What is the THR Reduction on the N1 Limit page normally set at? I set it at 1000 AGL, should it be higher (I assume this is a airline to airline answer)?

Also, is it normal for the TO Roll to start and then slow down while still on the RWY and then speed back up? I know I have TO 1 selected, but I don't expect it to speed up and slow down and speed up again; I have not touched the throttles in any of this. I just leave them at idle and select TOGA.

Thanks again,

John

[JonathanRichardson]

Hi

I think from what you describe, you really need to find a better flight model that has more realistic performance charateristics. The problems you are describing are not really anything under the control of PM.

Regards
Jonathan Richardson

[Trevor Hale]

I wonder if any of his issues are C of G related?

Trev

[blueskydriver]

Jonathan,

I took your suggestion of the flight model to heart and tried the 737-700 selection in the IDENT. It was a difference between night and day!!! Everything worked exactly like it should; the TO, the Climb and Rate of Climb, the speeds and the annuciation of the MCP lights.

I used this model (B737-700) from the CDU for FS9 and it worked then, but since I'm using FSX and the default models in FSX for the 737 is the 800, so that is when I got the B738-7B26.txt file from Steve R (at PM site) loaded in.

I now know this 700 version from PM works, but how do I do this for the 800? Are you guys at PM working on any other models for FSX like the 800. Also, Achilles if you read this and you're using the same txt file I am, is your PM good to go? If so, can you email the txt file you have?

Finally, I'm glad it is the model that caused the problem because Lord knows I didn't want it to be me committing pilot error... lol. All in all, I thank you Jonathan for sticking with me on this, and for the others in here that had me double, no triple check myself!

Is anyone else using PM and FSX SP2, if so and your using the B737-800 please tell us what model you're using for the 800 (post link to the txt file if possible). Oh, for Roland, who is having the same problem, check your flight model too.

Thanks again,

John