Open Cockpits MCP Please Help.

[flightsox]

Hi,

I'm new to this cockpit building stuff,so go easy please. I want to build an MCP using the Open Cockpits boards. My question is will these work for any aircraft i.e. FSX default 737, Level D 767, PMDG 747-400 and the soon to be PMDG 737? Another question i have are how easy are these boards to work with and how do you rate the service from Open Cockpits?

Thats all for now

Many thanks

Brendan

[Trevor Hale]

Hi Brendan.. Welcome to the Hobby.

Asking that question is like saying, I want to buy a mo-ped can I drive it on any road....? Sure you can drive the moped on most roads, but it may not work too well on a mud filled road in the rain.


OC cards run on SIOC Script. You program them for the aircraft you want to fly. Some people here use those cards with some of the aircraft you mentioned. as far as I know the PMDG 747 is *NOT* compatible with anyones hardware. SOme people use the PMDG 737, and the Level D is pretty compatible with most things.. but you can't say it will be or is compatible with every aircraft on the market.

Trev

[flightsox]

Cheers for the reply Trev. I like the analogy, clears things up a bit.This business about programming the boards for your aircraft, if i had the same setup as someone and the same plane, could i use their settings if they sent them to me, or is it not that simple?If that is possible is it easy to get hold of the required files, e.g. are people forthcoming with them in this community or not?

Thanks Again
Brendan

[Kennair]

Hi Brendan,

I am a long time user of Opencockpit hardware both kit form and pre-built. Have a look at my site (follow the link in my sig) and see if it helps. I have the OC prebuilt 737 MCP and it works great in all aircraft I fly. Basically you can operate anything that is available in default aircraft. I can't speak for the PMDG aircraft as I don't have them but I beleive that they utilize some specific programming which isn't accessable to applications like SIOC or FSUIPC.

Yes you can take scripts written by others such as myself and use or adapt to your own sim. This is exactly what I have done for most of my functions as I don't pretend to be a programmer. SIOC can be a little complex (OK, a lot!) for novice users but once you get a few things going you soon see the potential and there's plenty of other more adept programmers here that are willing to help or share. In fact I have posted scripts for all my OC gear on my website which you are welcome to download and use in yours, but as Trevor alluded to, it won't work directly in your sim, you will have to adapt cos no two sims and setups are exactly the same. For a start the USB port number associated to your OC hardware board is assigned by your operating system so that will be individual for each installation. This number needs to be set in the OC config file at setup, so as you can see there will need to be some tweaking, but then isn't that half the fun??

As for service from OC, I have had nothing but good service from them. I live in Aus and all my deliveries have been prompt and complete. No complaints here. However don't expect great joy from their manuals or their forum site. The manuals have all been translated into English from Spanish and leave a little to be desired. They also don't produce any tutorials on how to build their radios etc. so I decided to write up complete tutorials and post them as pdf's on my site. That way others such as yourself can follow a little easier.

Its horses for courses so research and test out other manufacturers as well. The major selling point for me was the price, but OC does usually require a bit more hands on to build or configure whereas paying more for other manufacturers may give you more plug n play. It all depends on your level of skill and handimanship (if thats actually a word?).

Hope that helps, and post some more questions if this isn't sufficient.

Ken.

[kiek]

Hi Brendan,

In addition to Ken's post. For the Level-D it is almost plug and play.
You can take the script and my lekseecon program from my website and you only have to search and fill in the USB device parameter of your MCP in your configuration (the one Ken talked about).

Nico

[makoy]

Hi,
I have start to make MCP also and plan to use OC:s cards too.
So i need expansion, master and displaycard what i have already.
Sioc is also what i need to learn or copy some of it, so this topic is very inportant to me also how to make it works.
pics below.

Regards

Marco

[Kennair]

Good job there Marco. To begin learning SIOC I can highly recommend Nico's site (Kiek) to give you all the starting points for the programming. Also THIS (http://personales.ya.com/micabina737/paneles/mip/mcp_efis/mcp_efisi.html)site for assistance with the contruction of the MCP & EFIS if you haven't already found it.

Ken.

[User_90]

Thanks for the replies guys, i was looking for the exact same information and had the same question/s. I'm keen to place an order and have a play, whats the worst that can happen?:p. If it's ok i'll monitor this post and ask questions/ give an update how its coming along.

Cheers
Josh

[User_90]

Ok,

As promised here come the questions,havnt even ordered yet, just want to get it right before i start chucking money around lol.Heres a picture of what i want it to look like after i finish:

http://www.opencockpits.com/catalog/737ng-with-white-digits-p-150.html?cPath=22

Ok,so with that in mind, i guess i should say i don't want to buy that plug it in and it works, because i like getting involved and having a go,so what i want to do is buy the components, build it up and it works!he he.

My supplier for the boards etc will be opencockpits. My first question is i know i'll need a Master Card, now what can i use to power LED's,encoders and 7 Segment displays? I see there are two 'auxilary/expansion' boards available from opencockpit's (if thats the right termonology)

1.Displays Card

http://www.opencockpits.com/catalog/displays-card-p-32.html

2.Output Card

http://www.opencockpits.com/catalog/electronic-cards-iocards-outputs-lampsleds-c-21_44.html

I've had a look through the opencockpits site and e-mailed them looking for the answer as to whether either one of them will do the same task or do i need one of each type etc. But i couldnt find it on the site and they havnt answered my e-mail that i sent Friday.

Ok Well thanks guys

Josh

[kiek]

Hi Josh,

You need:
1 USB expansion card
1 Master card
1 DisplayII card
1 Break Out box for inputs
1 Break Out box for outputs

That's all.

You can feed your Master Card with 5V and Gnd taken from a spare Molex connector from the computer running SIOC.

regards,
Nico Kaan

[User_90]

Hi,

That was a speedy reply, Thanks! Could you confirm if thats that you mean by a Break out Box:

Input

http://www.opencockpits.com/catalog/inputs-connection-p-70.html?cPath=21_27

Output

http://www.opencockpits.com/catalog/outputs-connection-p-69.html?cPath=21_27

Just going to price that gear up now and i'll get back to you.

Thanks

Josh

[kiek]

confirm
nico

[Kennair]

Hi Josh,

And yes I would highly recommend purchasing the input and output breakout boards. I made my own thinking I could save money, which I did, but certainly didn't save time. Its very fiddly to make unless you have access to double sided circuit board construction. In the end its cheaper and faster to just buy their pre-made boards. But it sounds like you're already going down that path anyway.

Also, the Mastercard will operate up to 48 LED's which is ample to get you started. More than that and you can purchase the dedicated Output card. I purchased the Mastercard and USB expansion in kit form as it was much cheaper, however I also purchased the Keys Encoder card and USB joystick but these were pre-made as it was only a few Euro's more. I love putting things together also, but if I'm only saving a couple of dollars I'd rather save the time. There's plenty of other duties to consume your time in this hobby. I recently built the complete 737 radio stack from scratch and half way through OC released their pre-built modules. At that point I wished I had have waited and bought the plug n play ones! There's a lot of satisfaction when its finished however.

Good luck and have fun.

Ken.

[kiek]

Also, the Mastercard will operate up to 48 LED's ..

Just a detail, but it is 45 (38 at J2 and + 7 at P2) .
It's also worth considering that the outputs at the MasterCard cannot be dimmed, while the outputs at the USB Outputs card can.

And be careful, the outputs at the USB outputs card share a common +5V while the outputs at the MC share a common ground.

So they are not 1-1 interchangeable, you have to take that in your account while designing your wiring scheme for your cockpit modules.

nico

[Kennair]

Thanks Nico, I forgot those details.

Ken.

[User_90]

Guys,

Thanks again for the added info. Initial costing for the cards & buttons/switches,has come to just short of £400GBP, which seems quite alot when you look that open cockpits are selling one thats made up and pretty much ready to go for 375Euro (with white 7 segments too). Would it be normal in this cockpit building stuff that things are cheaper to buy pre made than doing it yourself?

**That 400GBP doesnt include 7segment displays or the 7segment holders**

Thanks in advance

Josh

[kiek]

Hi Josh,

The difference in price is because OC uses a dedicated PCB that is specific for the MCP ('lean and mean').

With your initial investment in USB expansion Card and MC you have lots of room for expansion. You can add for instance three more MC's to your USB expansion card if your cockpit grows.

But indeed, it's very attractive to buy pnp moduels. Particularly if your cockpit is a 737, why should you want to build the MCP yourself?
You better concentrate on all the other aircraft systems...

regards,
Nico

[Kennair]

Hi Josh,

I bought the pre-built 737 MCP for that reason. It was cheaper and easier, plus they had already done all the configuring. Works like a treat and there's no way I could have done it as neatly and compact. One big drawback is that it isn't backlit, and although capable of adding it on it is so compact inside that it will be a very tricky process installing it (see my detailed pics HERE (http://www.kennair.com.au/mcp.html)). This might be a consideration for you if you specifically require a backlit model. And as Nico alluded to, it is only ever going to be an MCP due to the specific build whereas if you built your own you would still have lots of leway for expansion on the mastercard for other uses.

Horses for courses.

Ken.

[User_90]

Hi All,

This cockpit building stuff seriously does get addictive, just have to keep pulling the reigns and reminding myself i'm not a millionaire, i suppose its quite easy for costs to spiral out of control if your not careful huh.

I've took what all of you have said on board (no pun intended) and realised all i want for the moment is just the 737 MCP. I realise now that most companies provide boards that allow for expansion, hence the costs involved, which makes sense i guess.

I love your pdf guides Ken, especially the home made panels one, i was thinking of using your advice in that guide to produce the MCP, but i think there may be too many holes need cutting and i wouldnt get the finish as i would with the Panel that OC Provide:

http://www.opencockpits.com/catalog/panel-opencockpits-p-120.html?cPath=23_25_40

I'm sorry to keep asking all of the questions,hope you don't mind:?. If i wanted just the MCP, without the need for expansion in the future, i guess you'd tell me that there isnt a board/kit available to buy, i'd just have to buy it already made up?

Cheers guys
Josh

[Kennair]

Hi Josh,

Yes if all you want is the MCP then it is far more cost effective and simpler (not to mention more professional) to buy the pre-built module. It really looks the part and there's no way you'd get the same result with homemade panels (unless of course you owned or had access to a laser milling machine). No they don't sell just the MCP board on its own (although you could try requesting it from them). At the end of the day, to plug the panel in and run it up it really is fantastic. You'd swear you were flying the real deal. As I said earlier my only issue is with the lack of backlighting, but thats only a small issue. You could always go the route of CP Flight which includes backlighting but you'll pay considerably more for the privalege.

Ken.