Controling the PMDG 737 Overhead panel

[mdeponeo]

Hi
Im a new guy at this but I thought I'd say hellow and let you know what I'm up to.
Ive been building a 737ng over the last few years and Like everyone I supose, spend what I can when I can developing it.
Researching the best way to go about the job can be confusing. It seems everyone has their own opinion of what software or hardware is required.When you look at the price of some of it It can be enough to put you off the whole idea.
Personaly, I cant afford Project Magenta software and all the expensive Interfacing that goes with it althoe I'm sure its great if you can afford it.
So I was overjoyed when I found Ian Sission's site 737ng.co.uk
He's given me some great tips on getting round many of the problems of building a 737 sim.
So much in fact that as we dont live far apart we get together now and again to share
Ideas. He's a good old boy!!
One of the major problems of not having PM is the Overhead and if you use the PMDG 737
it soon becomes apparent that it wasnt designed to be used in a Sim .
Using fsuicp is great for controling the switches on the overhead but with NO offsets available for the gauges or anunciators it looked like "Game over"
After a chat with Ian and another fellow sim builder Dave Holt, I thought I'd have a go at
finding a solution to this problem and approach it from another runway, so to speak.
So just like the flight controler in Apolo 13 , I asked what have we got that works :)
It turns out that FS (2004 in this case) has some interesting offsets built in so I built my own control board to simulate the simulation and syncronised it with the FS offsets
It works a treat and locks perfectly with the PMDG Overhead.
Electrical Bus Control, Including Ground power APU, Source etc all sincronise exactly with
the PMDG overhead.
Because it has its own on board logic, It can display the power display info and drive its own gauges ie: APU , Fuel temp etc: Landing and cruse Alt are also displayed.
Ram doors , Duel bleed, low pressure warning , feel diff. Its a bit spooky when you see it working. considering what little info it has to work with.
If you would like to see it , Ive posted a little youtube movie on
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhfICtgdErE
Its not brillient but it gives you the general Idea.

All you need is the controle board, joystick controler, any popular Digital output board and fsuicp
Because Ive only used stock fs offsets the board can be used on FS
default 737 or any 2 engine jet model.
Ian, Dave and I are going to the FS weekend show in November and thought we would take a working model with us to see if anyone was interested and if so we may get the idea into production as it would be a very cheap alternative for the guys out there with limited bugets like us.
I'd be greatfull for any thoughts you had on this


Mark Deponeo

[ian@737ng.co.uk]

hi chums.....
when i tell you this idea is brilliant. trust me, i've seen it working. the first time i saw it, i was smitten by the simplicity of the approach. so much so that everything else i was going to do has been pushed aside and this has become my project over the summer.
what makes it so good is that there is so much information available inside FS that it becomes possible to drive the overhead logic by using the data available inside FS 'out of the box'. all the work is done by the control board.
it's a brilliant idea, the man's a genius! and you can quote me on that :o
when you watch the video (which doesn't do the system justice, much better actually being there), remember the operation is based around standard offsets which the board logic builds upon....... this is one to watch.
have a great day chaps........
regards from the welsh borders.... ian

[Anderson/SBSP]

Amazing job!!! I have interest in this, but i live in Brazil. This is a same system from Ian site?

I use FSBUS cards, is possible create this logics in FSBUS? Please give more details about that.

Thanks,

[Volante]

This looks fantastic, Mark.

Are you considering selling a pre configured control board, or the info on the offsets you have found?
Would the offsets be valid for a DC9/MD80 addon panel?

Can't wait to see what you have come up with in November... :o

Vidar

[flymo001]

Mark, Ian and Dave have done a cracking job. This brings the PMDG 737 overhead a bit more to life.

I saw it in action, whilst visiting Ian monday before last. It's on MY shopping list!!!
I agree that if you can afford the systems like PM, et al, then go for that, BUT, if not, then we all have to start somewhere. People like Mark enable so many to be able to gain a higher level of immersion, for their money.

My hat goes of to him and designers like him. GOLD STAR MATE!!! and THANK YOU!...all of you.


(still awaiting someone to come up with alternative codes/software for my CPFlight FMC/CDU in PMDG after the Lefteris split.........expensive paperweight......help??)

[vybhav]

Great Show guys. I am sure the community needs some innovation and you guys are doing just that. These initiatives will go a long way in making things more affordable and may be expand the community in the longer run.

Keep us posted.

Regards
Vybhav

[mdeponeo]

This looks fantastic, Mark.

Are you considering selling a pre configured control board, or the info on the offsets you have found?
Would the offsets be valid for a DC9/MD80 addon panel?

Can't wait to see what you have come up with in November... :o

Vidar

It's a piece of hardware . a logic board that uses watever digital output asignments you attach to it.
It looks at your overhead switches and looks at the digital out asignments
and decides what lights to light and what values are displayed on gauge and
7 seg displays.
The board could be configured to just about any 2 engined jet

[mdeponeo]

Mark, Ian and Dave have done a cracking job. This brings the PMDG 737 overhead a bit more to life.

I saw it in action, whilst visiting Ian monday before last. It's on MY shopping list!!!
I agree that if you can afford the systems like PM, et al, then go for that, BUT, if not, then we all have to start somewhere. People like Mark enable so many to be able to gain a higher level of immersion, for their money.

My hat goes of to him and designers like him. GOLD STAR MATE!!! and THANK YOU!...all of you.


(still awaiting someone to come up with alternative codes/software for my CPFlight FMC/CDU in PMDG after the Lefteris split.........expensive paperweight......help??)

CPFlight FMC/CDU
Fortunatly Mine is working.
and Ive got my key
If CPFlight wont support. someone will end up cracking it.
Its a case of reflashing the unit with a cloned serial number from a doner
unit : As there would appear to be no legal consumer rights to fall back on
I dont think CPFlight would have any issue with somone doing this.

[dnoize]

CPFlight FMC/CDU
Fortunatly Mine is working.
and Ive got my key
If CPFlight wont support. someone will end up cracking it.
Its a case of reflashing the unit with a cloned serial number from a doner
unit : As there would appear to be no legal consumer rights to fall back on
I dont think CPFlight would have any issue with somone doing this.

cpflight doesnt have a cdu/fmc. I suppose you mean the flyengravity cdu in combination with the pmdg driver.

The cdu is still supported as ever by FLYengravity, even the driver is still supported by pmdg for existing customers. They just stopped selling it, because of a copyright conflict after their lead developer left pmdg.

The serial is set in the factory. the firmware is protected and copyrighted. Serials are still hard coded because other add on developers like flightsimlabs still use the serial number. They would not be amused if serials could be cloned.

since the driver comes from pmdg, they should state if it would be an issue. If its not an issue, they could release the needed code for companies like flightsimlabs to write new drivers , or release it to the public domain so everyone can make their own drivers. (which they have not so far)

Now to get back on topic:

Mark, Ian and Dave: Well done !! great development which will make alot of people happy !

Stef

[mdeponeo]

cpflight doesnt have a cdu/fmc. I suppose you mean the flyengravity cdu in combination with the pmdg driver.

The cdu is still supported as ever by FLYengravity, even the driver is still supported by pmdg for existing customers. They just stopped selling it, because of a copyright conflict after their lead developer left pmdg.

The serial is set in the factory. the firmware is protected and copyrighted. Serials are still hard coded because other add on developers like flightsimlabs still use the serial number. They would not be amused if serials could be cloned.

since the driver comes from pmdg, they should state if it would be an issue. If its not an issue, they could release the needed code for companies like flightsimlabs to write new drivers , or release it to the public domain so everyone can make their own drivers. (which they have not so far)

Now to get back on topic:

Mark, Ian and Dave: Well done !! great development which will make alot of people happy !

Stef

OOPs Did I say CPFlight
I meant engravity :)
In my experience nothing is uncrackable..

Anyway, the board project.
Glad you like it . All we nead now is enough interest to justify getting it
profesionaly built.
I dont fancy spending the rest of my days building them at the kitchen table
:shock:
I think we should get a real feel for demand at the show
Im realy focused on keeping the price as low as possible so the more we order the lower the price.

[mounty]

Hi Mark,

I for one would be interested in purchsing a board and the "how to connect" if you are going into production.

Sounds like you have cracked PMDG and more people will probably go that route as a result.

Rob

[dnoize]

OOPs Did I say CPFlight
I meant engravity :)
In my experience nothing is uncrackable..

everything can be cracked :-) The point is: is it legal or moral !


Anyway, the board project.
Glad you like it . All we nead now is enough interest to justify getting it
profesionaly built.
I dont fancy spending the rest of my days building them at the kitchen table
:shock:
I think we should get a real feel for demand at the show
Im realy focused on keeping the price as low as possible so the more we order the lower the price.

I definately think there is a market for it. I know so many people with a pmdg based sim.
And with FSUIPC's mousetrapping and this, it is another step closer.

However, when (and if) PMDG releases a 737NG(X) with an SDK, there will be less demand for it.

Stef

.

[mdeponeo]

Hi Mark,

I for one would be interested in purchsing a board and the "how to connect" if you are going into production.

Sounds like you have cracked PMDG and more people will probably go that route as a result.

Rob
Thanks Rob
I am sure if enough are interested we can get this board produced at a very atractive price. I think it may be usefull if I will put a webpage up with more info about how it all works . I will post a link shortly

Mark

[mdeponeo]

everything can be cracked :-) The point is: is it legal or moral !



I definately think there is a market for is. I know so many people with a pmdg based sim.
And with FSUIPC's mousetrapping and this, it is another step closer.

However, when (and if) PMDG releases a 737NG(X) with an SDK, there will be less demand for it.

Stef

.
Your right of course,
What will PMDG Do next Or Not
But as My old Pappy used to say " A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush"
Whatever they do its got to have a hardware interface and will it be just another route into more expensive hardware? who knows
what i do know is this system does the job and will for any 2 engined FS model.
Maybe they will produce a cheep rivel product

Mark

[dnoize]

well i for one look forward to see you guys on the FSweekend.

I think its a great development !


Stef

[mdeponeo]

Hi Mark,

I for one would be interested in purchsing a board and the "how to connect" if you are going into production.

Sounds like you have cracked PMDG and more people will probably go that route as a result.

Rob

Hi Rob,
I do believe we have cracked this problem. we have a little work to do but only on refining the design . ie: geting it smaller and economic to produce
I'm confident we can do this given enough demand.
Having an overhead panel that gives the correct feadback makes a masive difference to the sim Ive had mine running for some time now and the novelty
still hasnt worn off.:-D

Mark

[mdeponeo]

well i for one look forward to see you guys on the FSweekend.

I think its a great development !


Stef Make sure you Introduce yourself Stef
We are building this demo unit so everyone can have a play
Its only a mini overhead panel but it has everything on it.
Dont think Easy Jet would let us on with a full size one:shock:
We will have it hooked up to a laptop so you can see how it syncronis's
perfectly with the PMDG overhead. (see if you can trick it)
We have tried but so far cant get it to loose sync.
I'll make sure we have some technical data for you to have a look at.

Mark

[ph-yos]

Goodday all,

Reading this I have to think of my post from last week, I'm just speechless now. WOW!!!

Thank you and please let us all know when you guys put it in the market as a quality alternative for Project Magenta. Not saing that PM is bad, oh no, it's superb software

Happy landings and take care. Yos

[mdeponeo]

Goodday all,

Reading this I have to think of my post from last week, I'm just speechless now. WOW!!!

Thank you and please let us all know when you guys put it in the market as a quality alternative for Project Magenta. Not saing that PM is bad, oh no, it's superb software

Happy landings and take care. Yos Hey !
Thanks for the WOW!!!

Just let me put this in perspective. We are not trying to compete here with PM. We are not PM builders or bashers
We are just saying in this case there is a cheaper way to get your overhead working . Most of us cant afford PM as we are just home builders
And its not Just the Software , Its all the interfacing hardware that goes with it. And lets face it some of it dont work as it's suposed to anyway and
costs a fortune.
This alternative way I'm sure will have a few critics from the PM camp
giving it a good bashing. and we will still be the poor relatives;)
But at the end of the day its cost right?
but most important IT WORKS!!
its proved possible to get the overhead locked to the PMDG overhead with all the switches and anunciators working as they should.
Its proved possible to display correct Voltage , Current and availability
on 7 segment displays. Its possible to drive gauges. (even if they are not in the software) we can drive six packs , anything realy is possible useing this technique.
Even if you are using the stock FS 737 it will still work. (minus the sexy sounds you get with PMDG)

Glad I got that off my chest

Thanks fot the suport ;)
Mark

[mounty]

Hi Mark,

Even if PMDG come up with an SDK, I'm not sure it will be as easy as what you have descibed so far. Not only that bust as you say it can be applied to any twin jet. My guess is that people won't have tuo buy PMDG, they can use the default with other addon software and your board/solution. I would think there is a good market for this.

Rob

[mdeponeo]

Hi Mark,

Even if PMDG come up with an SDK, I'm not sure it will be as easy as what you have descibed so far. Not only that bust as you say it can be applied to any twin jet. My guess is that people won't have tuo buy PMDG, they can use the default with other addon software and your board/solution. I would think there is a good market for this.

Rob
Yep any twin engined Jet.
I use PMDG because I have the FMC by engravity and the CPFlight MCP and expantion board. etc. But any setup will work because the logic board relies
on ONLY stock FS offsets
As for the Market Well who knows. I have had 3 aproaches in the last 24hrs from companies offering to distribute it if we get it into prodution so there is some interest.

Mark

[vybhav]

Hey !
Thanks for the WOW!!!

Just let me put this in perspective. We are not trying to compete here with PM. We are not PM builders or bashers
We are just saying in this case there is a cheaper way to get your overhead working . Most of us cant afford PM as we are just home builders
And its not Just the Software , Its all the interfacing hardware that goes with it. And lets face it some of it dont work as it's suposed to anyway and
costs a fortune.
This alternative way I'm sure will have a few critics from the PM camp
giving it a good bashing. and we will still be the poor relatives;)
But at the end of the day its cost right?
but most important IT WORKS!!
its proved possible to get the overhead locked to the PMDG overhead with all the switches and anunciators working as they should.
Its proved possible to display correct Voltage , Current and availability
on 7 segment displays. Its possible to drive gauges. (even if they are not in the software) we can drive six packs , anything realy is possible useing this technique.
Even if you are using the stock FS 737 it will still work. (minus the sexy sounds you get with PMDG)

Glad I got that off my chest

Thanks fot the suport ;)
Mark


Mark totally appreciate your views here. If i just talk from my point of view 'a limited budget home cockpit builder' i like the idea and hope one day we will be able to purchase this at an affordable prices.

Regards
Vybhav

[Anderson/SBSP]

This board make all overhead annunciators work? You can give more details?

[ian@737ng.co.uk]

hello anderson.......
what mark did was sit down and emulate the exact behaviour of the overhead starting at the bottom. there is a hierarchy in the logic of the overhead which dictates what happens when certain criteria are met. e.g from ground power only thru to in flight fully powered up there is a sequence of events that make certain things happen and illuminate or extinguish paticular annunciators.
the first time i saw it working i was blown away and that was just the prototype :o
once you have the logic sorted, it then becomes possible to control all the systems as they actually are controlled.
i have a working model on my workbench and watching it work, i honestly think he is onto a winner here.
so in short to answer your question, it is possible to control just about everything.
all the words in the world cannot do this justice. you have to see it working, it's just brilliant.
regards ... ian.

[Anderson/SBSP]

Great Ian!! Please i first in the line to buy my board!! hehehehe

Make more videos or pics to show this wonderfull piece of gold!!!

[Bob Reed]

Let me start out by saying I am a PM user from way back. I think this is a wonderful development for all pit builders especially the ones not building a 737 / A3xx! Because get away from those 2 aircraft and there is not much out there to work with for logic. Price is always a huge issue for the home builder. I know when these become ready I will be in line for one. Great work!!

[mdeponeo]

Let me start out by saying I am a PM user from way back. I think this is a wonderful development for all pit builders especially the ones not building a 737 / A3xx! Because get away from those 2 aircraft and there is not much out there to work with for logic. Price is always a huge issue for the home builder. I know when these become ready I will be in line for one. Great work!!
Thanks Bob,
I must admit I'm amazed at the positive responce from everyone
even got a PM user interested eh ;)
Im starting to believe there realy is a demand out there for this .
We are working very hard here to make this happen .
The only delay we have is getting this thing moved on from prototype
to a profesional looking piece of kit. without the cost running away
We have a few ways lined up for this and we should be in a better
posision at the November show to start talking leed times and most
important -cost and We are shooting for the lowest possible .

Mark

[shearder]

Oh there definately is a demand for it. I was/am a home builder and built a prototype panel to give me lights, engines and MCP control. The bug bit me and ran off with most of my money so now i am busy with a 737/generic cockpit (based on 737) but with limited space and money - i am married!! LOL

So i am building HALF (captain side) a cockpit with part of a pedestal and an overhead. How would this compare with FSBUS as i am busy awaiting the components...

WOuld it be available as a "self build" download ciircuit board and buy and program components etc? How would you envisage selling this?? Especially for people with LESS money :grin::grin:

Anyways - from the video I would be interested. I also hope PMDG get a FSX version of 737 out soon!!! I love heavies but reasonalble build would be generic as i fly A3xx, B7xx, Antonov etc

GREAT "product"!!!

[mdeponeo]

Oh there definately is a demand for it. I was/am a home builder and built a prototype panel to give me lights, engines and MCP control. The bug bit me and ran off with most of my money so now i am busy with a 737/generic cockpit (based on 737) but with limited space and money - i am married!! LOL

So i am building HALF (captain side) a cockpit with part of a pedestal and an overhead. How would this compare with FSBUS as i am busy awaiting the components...

WOuld it be available as a "self build" download ciircuit board and buy and program components etc? How would you envisage selling this?? Especially for people with LESS money :grin::grin:

Anyways - from the video I would be interested. I also hope PMDG get a FSX version of 737 out soon!!! I love heavies but reasonalble build would be generic as i fly A3xx, B7xx, Antonov etc

GREAT "product"!!!

I know how you feel money wise:?
lack of lolly !!!
your not on your own there mate
Most of us have a very limited buget . lets face it we build these things for fun not for a living.
I'm just like you trying to build a home built sim. As there was no obviouse way of geting my overhead working without some very expensive software
and hardware, I started experimenting and developed a solution .
Im an electronics engineer by trade so That helps .
this is not a project that would be easy to publish as I suspect most would
find it problematic to build from scratch.
however, as Ive said before Im happy to get it produced as a kit if there is enough interest. I've got a demo version that I will be taking to the FS weekend in November. If it goes down well I will get the main board produced
I cant see why it could not be in kit form if thats what some people want.
It would help to keep the cost down
Of course, even pre built you will have a lot of work to do conecting it up
:shock:
I'm not trying to start a company out of this, I just think this is a good solution to the overhead problem and if enough guys are interested I could
get the board profesionaly built. If I make any profit it will get spent at
aviationmegastore.com :-D
watch this space

Mark

[ian@737ng.co.uk]

gentlemen......
trust me, this idea is brilliant, i've seen it develop from the start and actually sat in marks cockpit with dave holt and mark to watch it working in the actual overhead. i had to keep wiping my mouth because i was 'dribbling' :o
if you are going to Lelystad, then come and see this demo working. you will want one believe me. i'll post some more details on my website when i've spoken to mark about showing the demo.........
hope to see you there......
regards ... ian

[kiek]

I think this is a wonderful development for all pit builders especially the ones not building a 737 / A3xx! Because get away from those 2 aircraft and there is not much out there to work with for logic.

Well... now you forget the 767 cockpit builders. We already have for a number of years the Level-D Boeing 767 with its SDK!

Together with my free lekseecon program you can build a complete cockpit. We 767 builders already have a fully working Overhead, MCP, CDU, MIP, Pedesteal and so on.

We do not have to build extra logic on top of the logic of the Level-D or FSUIPC offsets. We simply interface knobs, switches, annunciators, buttons, displays, and so on, cheap and reliable, always synchronised.

Extra features provided by lekseecon: Your hardware switches are always leading over the ones in the panel, cold and dark cockpit support and lights test support.

Just for the record ;-)

[shearder]

kiek!! I am very impressed with that cockpit!! It proves it can be simple and yet VERY effective/functional!!

I just bought a bunch or electronics yestdrday for my FSBUS boards. Spent over 700 in Rands - which is not too bad so i just need to etch now - my prototype has served me well... But i take my hat of to you guys that have cockpits - I must admit that, and this is simply personal, having the simpit is great but i believe what is better than that is the knowing that you did it your self!! I can't afford off-the-shelf solutions anyways LOL