new hardware alternative to Matrox TH2GO

[dnoize]

MyCockpit ®NEWS: ATI EYEFINITY

In a press meeting ATI just announced their new EYEfinity product range.

The eyefinity cards can drive 6 screens. And it even gets better, 4 eye finity cards can be combined for a total of 24 cards.

I dont know as how far FS is supported on 24 screens, but 6 should work for sure.

On pictures they show a Flightsimulator running on 24 screens, but which one was not mentioned.

The card is based on their next generation 5xxx platform.

During the demonstration they showed it running H.A.W.X. and Dirt2, so the cards seem powerfull !!

more info here:

http://pcper.com/comments.php?nid=7744

some pictures:

<img src="http://www.mycockpit.org/photopost/data/500/01z.png"/>

anandtech preview: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3635

http://www.mycockpit.org/photopost/data/500/demo03Z.png

Imagine this with samsungs new ultra thin bezel displays or cheap minibeamers...

.

[BHawthorne]

A few configuration limitations on EyeFinity...


This new display span mode uses something called SLS (single large surface) mode. This is similar to nVidia's old XP span modes, but works with up to 6 displays.

EyeFinity only works at this time with single-GPU and single-card. You can't span across mutli-GPU nor multi-card.

Crossfire does not currently work with EyeFinity. So if you're pushing all those pixels you have no scaling support from multi-GPU.

Displays must be all symmetrical in size and orientation. You can't mix and match display orientation and different resolutions within an EyeFinity SLS grid.

You can have displays that work independant of the SLS grid or you can have multiple SLS grids used. Keep in mind that displays within an SLS grid have to be connected to the same single GPU/card.

Displays grouped in an SLS grid must not exceed 8192 pixel width. This is related to the framebuffer maximum limits on the 5000-series cards.

The 5000-series cards demoed seem to have at least 2 different port out configurations -- one that uses 6 mini displayport ports and one with 2 dvi and 2 hdmi port outs.

EyeFinity can work with a grid of portrait rotated screens or a more typical landscape orientated grid of screens. You can not mix portrait and landscape in the same EyeFinity grid of screens though. They need to be symmetrical.

Mini-DP to DVI active adapters can be purchased for around $100 each, so existing DVI displays can use this new 6 head card, but it's going to cost a bit for adapters.

nVidia 300-series is still under wraps, so there is no information one way or the other to know yet how nVidia will counter EyeFinity with a competing capability.

A lot of these news reviews are writing incomplete or inaccurate information so far on this. This looks to be a knockout blow to Matrox, because who needs a TH2G if you can just make it work with the video card only?

A comment about the 24-screen X-Plane demo. This is a bit misleading. The configuration used in that specific demo is 4 instances of X-Plane running in Linux -- 1 instance per 6-port card. This is all done on a single machine but it is not in-fact an example of a single game running a DirectX based title in Windows. It's 4 instances of a game running in Linux. The 24-screen setup is not functional for use with any random DirectX Windows game. EyeFinity only scales to a maximum of 6 displays from a single GPU/card. EyeFinity can not bridge GPUs or cards right now.

While it's nice that everyone is excited about this, I want to make sure the record is set straight about this and the mechanics are not glossed over. There are specific limitations put on this technology just like any other alternative surround-gaming tech. It looks to work great if you are within those limitations though.

[autocadplease]

Awesome!
I hope it will be able to do 6x1.

[dnoize]

A comment about the 24-screen X-Plane demo. This is a bit misleading. The configuration used in that specific demo is 4 instances of X-Plane running in Linux -- 1 instance per 6-port card. This is all done on a single machine but it is not in-fact an example of a single game running a DirectX based title in Windows. It's 4 instances of a game running in Linux. The 24-screen setup is not functional for use with any random DirectX Windows game. EyeFinity only scales to a maximum of 6 displays from a single GPU/card. EyeFinity can not bridge GPUs or cards right now.



Thanks for the additional info. Indeed this is not mentioned on most tech sites.

However would this mean you could run different views on the different xplane instances and have a spanned view this way ? Thats how it looks in the demo's.
A bit like wideview ?
Xplane has excellent capabilities to adjust views and span screens. a bit like wideview built in.

but we really dont need 24 screens ;-)

6 is enough. In xplane it should be possible to give 180 degrees view this way.
Hmm are there any display port video projectors available ?

Stef

[BHawthorne]

I'm unfamiliar with how X-Plane works. I just know what the hardware setup was at the demo.

As long as the 6 screens don't exceed 8192 pixels wide total, one would assume you could do a 180 degree+ circular projection setup with one of these cards. It's one of those things that noone has done yet, so you'd have to do the experimentation though. 6 720p projectors would do 7680x720. 6 1280x1024 projectors would do 7680x1024. 6 1080p projectors wouldn't work because it pushes past the 8192 pixel width. You could use 4 1080p projectors to do 7680x1080 though. Keep in mind though that a theoretical projection setup like this could not use Sol7 simpit edition because it does not allow more than 3 projectors to be setup at once.

No need to use a DisplayPort projector, just use HDMI or DVI projectors and an adapter. The only reason why they're using mini-DP is to be able to fit the 6 ports on the back of the card.

[choffmann]

This looks to be a knockout blow to Matrox, because who needs a TH2G if you can just make it work with the video card only?

Still, as long as we don´t know the pricing conditions, we don´t have the opportunity to fuly "compare" the new product with TH2G. Having the limitations in mind, time will come to show if it pays.

[dnoize]

some youtube videos:

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/mzGtxlaPQqY&hl=nl&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mzGtxlaPQqY&hl=nl&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>



Xplane demo:


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Dirt2:


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/teE5wqT2DNU&hl=nl&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/teE5wqT2DNU&hl=nl&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>



Stef

[N242AM]

Have any of the FS9/FSX demo's shown what the FPS is with that many screens?

Even though its not the best indication of how fluid the simulation is, the FPS counter is all we have. Without FPS showing on screen, all I'm seeing is a static, one frame picture, not a fluid moving simulation.

[dnoize]

In the youtube videos i've posted above you can see very fluid motion in xplane, h.a.w.x. and Dirt 2. The last 2 being very gpu intensive last generation games.

however, fsx is more cpu intensive than gpu intensive and noone has seen it running fsx yet.

the 5xxx series is the next generation directX 11 cards range, so most likeley faster than anything available now.

personally im not that much interested in fsx benchmarks, but more in xplane because of its built in capability to span over multiple screens.

with 24 screens it was running 4 cards.

We just have to wait for the first full spec reviews.

price wise i doubt that it will be more expensive then a high end card + TH2GO.

I think the TH2GO will still be interesting for those using regular cards, so this will not really be a threat.

Its just a interesting new development

Stef

[BHawthorne]

I'll spell it out a bit better...

Given the choice between buying a $350 Matrox TH2G Digital plus a $300 video card to run it on or...a $450 video card capable of running twice as many displays and higher resolutions...I think the math is quite clear here.

The TH2G has less capability:

The TH2G can not push more than 3 displays for a game.
The TH2G can not push higher resolutions than 3x1680x1050.
The TH2G has a lot of compatibility issues with hardware even locking 3x1680x1050.
The TH2G can not use screens in portrait mode.
The TH2G can not use 3x1920x1200 or 3x1920x1080 or 3x2540x1600.
TH2G is limited to 57hz locking at maximum resolution.


Simply put the new 6-port EyeFinity cards can do more things better than the TH2G for cheaper. If if it's not found cheaper than the combined cost of a TH2G Digital and a mid-range enthusiast card, it still has at least twice the capability, with more options and higher resolutions. Having dealt with the compatibility issues with 3x1680x1050 for going on a year now, it can safely be said that it's a hack that doesn't work right for many people. TH2G Digital was never designed for it. It was added in after the fact and it shows that it is a hack, with how compatible it is with LCDs and video card drivers. If that doesn't spell things out, I'm willing to elaborate a bit more.

The standard 5000-series port configuration running triple-head EyeFinity:
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/1484/triplehdtvports.jpg

The 6-port mini-DP configuration running 6 display EyeFinity:
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/1641/3x2setupports.jpg

I also need to point out that EyeFinity will do triple screen just fine without the 6-port version. They used thier standard 5000-series port out cards on a few of their demo rigs at the launch. The configuration those cards had are in the photos above. To do triple-head, they plugged 2 of the displays into the dvi slots and used an adapter on the 3rd port.

Without bringing too much bias into the debate, I'm a community forum moderator over at the EVGA community forums. EVGA is a nVidia exclusive video card manufacturer, yet I am impressed with this new tech by ATI.

I've been using pretty much all variations of multi-screen gaming possible for years now. I own all the Matrox GXM products (1 TH2G Analog, 1 TH2G Digital and 2 DH2G Digital) and have also used SoftTH extensively since it's initial release. My first surround-screen gaming setup was built in 2006. I'm not coming at this from an uninformed stance. ;-)

Note: Credit goes to WSGF forum member GeneralAdmission for those photos.

[N242AM]

Sure sounds like an endorsement for a product that isn't available yet. I'll take another look at the product six months after its release.

Just curious, are all those TH2G cons you mention hardware or software related?

[BHawthorne]

The standard port-out version of the 5870 now available:
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/5479/radeonhd5870threequarte.jpg

The 5870 standard 2 dvi, 1 dp, 1 hdmi port-out version hit shelves for purchase a midnight last night EST. They're going for $379 on Newegg and almost immediately sold out of stock. Everywhere I looked this morning are back-ordered now. Still no 6-port out version on the market yet (that I can find). I'm holding off until the 6-port out version is available, as that gives us the ultimate expansion ability for that series card.

The "Six" still isn't out yet:
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/3346/eyefinityedition.jpg

[JBaymore]

The "Six" still isn't out yet:


This will add a whole new meaning to the phrase, "Watch your six." ;)

best,

.....................john

[andarlite]

Having dealt with the compatibility issues with 3x1680x1050 for going on a year now, it can safely be said that it's a hack that doesn't work right for many people. TH2G Digital was never designed for it. It was added in after the fact and it shows that it is a hack, with how compatible it is with LCDs and video card drivers.


I'm just curious, but what kind of compatibility issues are there? I finally got my 3rd 22inch LCD the other day so I am now running 3x1680X1050. I'm using 3 different LCD's (2 different Samsung model and an I-Inc) with a eVga nVidea 8800GTX graphic card. Took a bit of doing to get it going since I finally tried the wizard before being allowed to select 3x1680x1050. Once I was able to select that mode, seems to be working fine....or did I just get lucky?

Regards,
Henry

[Airhogg]

Hey BHawthorne,
Would you expect that the performance of the 6 output Eyefinity be better than say dual TH2Go's running 6 monitors on the 2 heads of a GTX295? Reason makes me think that using additional heads versus expanded resolution per head (or whatever the TH2Go does) has to decrease performance. Granted the ease of use and price difference are justified for the Eyefinity, but only if performance is not compromised. I would be using 6 undocked fSX view windows either way for argument sake.

[BHawthorne]

Sure sounds like an endorsement for a product that isn't available yet. I'll take another look at the product six months after its release.

Just curious, are all those TH2G cons you mention hardware or software related?

As far as endorsement, from what research I've done on the tech so far, it looks to be one of the best mutli-display gaming options available. All of my interest in this is because I've used Th2G and SoftTH since both came out and have used pretty much every variation of surround-screen gaming possible. This is just another variation on that tech that has me interested in how it compares to what is already out there. No, I've not used EyeFinity first hand, but my plan is to once the 2GB 6-port version is available.

Most of those TH2G limitations are hardware related. The limitations spring from several separate issues though. A few are driver related compatibility issues too. The largest issue is that you're having to push the resolution though a single dual-dvi cable for the TH2G Digital. It hits the maximum bandwidth limit on the cable and is why the TH2G Digital can't do any higher resolution than 5040x1050 at 57hz. EyeFinity has no such limitations because every display gets it's own cable. Also, because EyeFinity is done on a driver level, things like portrait display rotation can be done unlike Th2G where the capabilities of the GXM boxes are very rigid and limited as far as the specific set of resolutions available that they'll work at.

A few people over at the Wide Screen Gaming Forums have already purchased their 5870, so there should be some gamer first impressions soon posted over on that forum. They're pretty much the #1 site for surround-screen gaming troubleshooting and new tech. I agree that unless you want to be the one bug squashing video card driver issues, that it would be a good idea to hold off a bit on this new tech. There is a lot of things that can be improved that they've not addressed yet. Things like Crossfire not working with it is a big minus. Then again, I prefer using the largest monolithic video card possible.

[litebkt]

I purchased three 1920X1200 monitors and an ATI 8500. I also purchased the active adaptor for the display port.

I have tried every configuration possible from three, down to two, and finally down to one monitor. Only on one monitor does FSX fly. The others must be unplugged.

X-Plane seems to handle the three monitor eyefinity configuration quite nicely.

Needless to say, I'm quite discouraged. I really wanted to use FSX because it is so extensible and I've purchased software explicitly to fly with FSX.

So, here I am out somewhere around $1500 and can't use this equipment for which I purchased it.

Can someone recommend a good Nvidia card(s)? I've got two slots and would like to run at least 4 monitors (the three big ones) and a smaller one (around 17" wide display) for the cockpit instruments.

Michelle

[Airhogg]

Hi Michelle,
Nvidia will soon release a new line of cards (GF100 series), but if you don't want to wait, I would go with the GTX295. It has plenty of power for FSX and the prices are now reasonable. I would also use a TH2Go digital with one of the outputs for your 3 main monitors and the other ouput for your 17". There's really no need to use both slots for SLI in that FSX doesn't utilize SLI and my experience is that the more cards you install, the worse the performance....(unless using it for SLI with apps that support it.)

I've used 3 cards and a single monitor for each output as well as 1 and 2 cards with dual TH2Go's and found that the fewer cards used to get the job done is the best route. Others may have had different experiences, but that's what I recommend.

[litebkt]

[QUOTE=Airhogg;99699]Hi Michelle,
Nvidia will soon release a new line of cards (GF100 series), but if you don't want to wait, I would go with the GTX295. It has plenty of power for FSX and the prices are now reasonable. I would also use a TH2Go digital with one of the outputs for your 3 main monitors and the other ouput for your 17". There's really no need to use both slots for SLI in that FSX doesn't utilize SLI and my experience is that the more cards you install, the worse the performance....(unless using it for SLI with apps that support it.)

QUOTE]

Thanks Airhog for the advice. Unfortunately, the Matrox unit will not run the large 1920x1200 pixel displays.... at least in the native resolution. I've been pricing hardware today on the GT 285's ugh! To run 4 monitors would cost me over $700i... and to run 5 (I'd like two glass cockpits) it would be another card.

I think that what I am going to do is to limp along for a while to see if ATI gets their drivers fixed. I still have to build my "flight desk" to hold all of this stuff and I'm still a total noob when it comes to actually flying the planes. I'm still stuck in the Piper Cub with any proficiency.

I do have an old DELL XPS that has an Nvidia 8600 in it. I'll see if it will run the 17" widescreen displays and then play the network interface games.... boy do I want to steer clear of that. It's not the networking that's problematic for me.... it's working with this mesh of drivers and software you have to pull from several sites that is scaring me.

Michelle

[twisted8]

I purchased three 1920X1200 monitors and an ATI 8500. I also purchased the active adaptor for the display port.

I have tried every configuration possible from three, down to two, and finally down to one monitor. Only on one monitor does FSX fly. The others must be unplugged.

X-Plane seems to handle the three monitor eyefinity configuration quite nicely.

Needless to say, I'm quite discouraged. I really wanted to use FSX because it is so extensible and I've purchased software explicitly to fly with FSX.

So, here I am out somewhere around $1500 and can't use this equipment for which I purchased it.

Can someone recommend a good Nvidia card(s)? I've got two slots and would like to run at least 4 monitors (the three big ones) and a smaller one (around 17" wide display) for the cockpit instruments.

Michelle

Can you tell us exactly what happens when you run the 3 monitors together? do you have them grouped in the ATI control panel? It sound like you might be missing the grouping part.
Also do you have the right display resolution set on FSX? it should match your desktop resolutions.

[litebkt]

Can you tell us exactly what happens when you run the 3 monitors together? do you have them grouped in the ATI control panel? It sound like you might be missing the grouping part.
Also do you have the right display resolution set on FSX? it should match your desktop resolutions.

I finally did get FSX to sort of run today by shutting down ALL other background processes on the machine with a two monitor Eyfinity group. X-Plane runs fine with all background processes and a 3 monitor Eyefinity group. But in FSX, instead of giving you the additional physical space to the left and right, it simply expands what you would see on one screen and chops off the top and bottom with horribly low resolution. So, a single guage is something like 8 inches tall and you can't keep some of the cockpit on screen and see any sky. I'm sure that with the three monitors enabled, it would be even worse, so I didn't even try it. This is the furthest I got with an Eyefinity group and FSX. Before I disabled my machine for any other use, FSX would start up, show the outside view and the lower half of the screens were black (the cockpit bitmaps I suspect) and FSX would freeze with the mouse shaking, quivering, and going back and forth betwween a cursor and the little wait symbol.

I had tried running split monitors before as well and FSX would eventually crash with any scenario you care to think of. But now, with the machine devoted to it, I can run separate undocked windows (left, center, and right) smoothly (at least with two 30 minute tests of just flying around). If I save the flight and resume, the undocked windows will go to the correct monitor but they all need to be resized. I suppose I can deal with that.

In researching this problem, I read from the ATI site that this is a problem related to Microsoft's implementation of DirectX and ATI will not address it. Microsoft says that it is an ATI driver problem and Microsoft will not address it. I suspect that there is also a problem in the FSX software itself that no one owns anymore.

And get this.... from what I've been able to read on the ATI site, you can't run two cards in your machine for extra monitors. Three is the limit. If I'm wrong on this, they need to fire their writing staff, because they are not clear in their description.

So, my advice to anyone reading this thread.... don't buy ATI cards if you are running FSX.

I'm still going to start with FSX, because I have purchased training books and some add ons and just bite the bullet with the inconveniences. But as soon as I get through the training materials, I'll be going to X-Plane. I'll need to play the multiple computer network games with both programs though. And there isn't all that much in the way of add on guages for my glass cockpit screens for X-Plane. I can't afford to go to an Nvidia setup at this point. I've spent my wad ;)

Such is life when you break the norm and go with "cutting edge" technology, no? I read so many great things on the web about this eyefinity thing and figured that I could not go wrong. And so, I built my machine to support an Eyefinity set up..... it's a nice beefy machine but it won't handle three Nvidia cards (not enough PCIe slots and too much power required). I think that it turns out, those talking about eyefinity had never really tried an eyefinity set up. Even the game that comes with the card (Dirt2) only runs on one monitor! Fortunately, I have no interest in playing stupid games like that.

Do I ramble or what? ;) Thanks guys for all your comments and help. I can't tell you how much I've learned in reading this forum. Hopefully, I'll get to "know" a few of you somewhat better.

Michelle

[twisted8]

I have an ATI 5850 and a 4670 working together with FSX (6 monitors) it is possible. Are you using directX 10? I get a lot problems with directx 10 enabled so make sure it's not on. Also do you have the wide view mode enabled in your config file? that might help too. What windows version are you running?

[litebkt]

I have an ATI 5850 and a 4670 working together with FSX (6 monitors) it is possible. Are you using directX? I get a lot problems with directX enabled so make sure it's not on. Also do you have the wide view mode enabled in your config file? that might help too. What windows version are you running?

Wow Twisted8, now I'm getting somewhere..... you actually are running it! I have DirectX11 running with Vista (soon to be upgraded to Windows7). I thought that FSX required DirectX, silly me. How do you disable it?

I have a 3Ghx dual core Intel with 8Gb of memory. I might have to throw a larger power supply in there if this will work. Currently, I'm running a 600 watt Cooler Master PSU. How many watts does your PSU support?

And wideview (the third party package, I assume?) in the config file? Nope. So far I'm only running one machine. I haven't hooked up the additional two monitors for the glass cockpit views yet. I've got an ATI Radeon 4550 that I'd love to throw in the single machine and that would really save me a lot of hassle (it is not eyefinity capable but does have two useable ports). I did install it initially but the Catylist drivers didn't seem to see it. While browsing through the ATI site I read "the use of an additional PCI card is not supported". Now, that can be read several ways, ya know? Perhaps I should give that another try. In your configuration, do you use Wideview on a single machine?

Thanks for all of your help. Really.... I sincerely appreciate it.

Michelle

[twisted8]

Not a problem!
The wideview I'm reffering to is not the software that you are thinking of. Just a setting in the cfg file.
Sorry i meant disable directX10, not directX, but I think you got what I meant. Check these two things:
1. Under the display settings in FSX make sure DirectX 10 preview mode is NOTchecked, that'll disable it!
2. in your FSX.cfg file (usually in C:\Documents and Settings\USERNAME\Application Data\Microsoft\FSX) set WideViewAspect=True
Makes sure you backup you cfg file first!
Are you running 32bit or 64bit? I'm run windows 7 64bit

[litebkt]

Hey, I found the setting for using DirectX 10 and it was indeed disabled. I've heard lots of negatives about DirectX, so I never thought about setting it up before. I enabled it to see if it would work. And it does. But a single control guage in the virtual cockpit fills one entire 25.5" screen! The outside views look pretty good though and that is what I really want out of these three monitors.

Now, I just need to figure out these Wideview and two card issues on the machine.

Michelle

[litebkt]

Twisted,

you are the bomb! Thanks for help with the Wideview setting. That indeed did work with the virtual cockpit. The 2d cockpit doesn't work but that's fine. I'll not need it. I still get a quivering mouse, but perhaps I'll lower some of the graphics settings to see if that can resolve that problem.

Can you tell me how big your computer's power supply is? I might take a look at the specs of your second video card and see if that might work for me.

Michelle

[twisted8]

glad that helped!! :cool: my PSU is 850W, I had a 500W PSU and it the PC would randomnly shut down. This problem was solved with the 850W PSU. I think ATI recommends at least 650W, specially when running 2 cards. You should look into that too! check out my temp site for all my specs.

[litebkt]

I have an ATI 5850 and a 4670 working together with FSX (6 monitors) it is possible. Are you using directX? I get a lot problems with directX enabled so make sure it's not on. Also do you have the wide view mode enabled in your config file? that might help too. What windows version are you running?

Okay, yours is working, so I'll give it a go. I just need a bit more juice so a larger power supply is in order. I like the idea of using a cheaper card for the smaller two monitors.

I do have a question for you though. Do you manage all of your monitors in the Catilylist manager? I really want to make sure that there is some way to push that little mouse pointer to every monitor and that I can it all working together.

I really do appreciate your help.

Michelle

[twisted8]

Not a problem, glad to be able to help!
Yeah I use Catilylist manager and you can set up all your monitors in any layout you want and you can get to all of them with your mouse, that won't be a problem!

[litebkt]

You know.... I look at your avatar pic and I swear that my set up looks darned close to what you've done. Do you have any pictures available on line of it?

I meassured the total current draw of my current set up with 3 25.5" monitors and the computer with the ATI 485 last night. It was only 2.75 amps. Without the monitors running, it was 1.75 amps. I might be able to get by with my 600 watt power supply with the ATI 4670 card in there as well. I have to keep everything on that circuit under 15 amps. The silly nits that built this house (in 2001) only ran 14 gauge wire. I wish I would have known that was what they had planned and I'd have made them run 10 gauge! I know it is overkill, but.... well... you understandd ;)

Michelle

Michelle

[RhodeNet]

You know.... I look at your avatar pic and I swear that my set up looks darned close to what you've done. Do you have any pictures available on line of it?

I meassured the total current draw of my current set up with 3 25.5" monitors and the computer with the ATI 485 last night. It was only 2.75 amps. Without the monitors running, it was 1.75 amps. I might be able to get by with my 600 watt power supply with the ATI 4670 card in there as well. I have to keep everything on that circuit under 15 amps. The silly nits that built this house (in 2001) only ran 14 gauge wire. I wish I would have known that was what they had planned and I'd have made them run 10 gauge! I know it is overkill, but.... well... you understandd ;)

Michelle

Michelle

Hi folks, Love to join in here. I have Eyefinity running on a 5850, and I think Michelle has answered a question I had in my mind, since I now have a 4870 and a 4890, and only one is in use, I'd like to add the extra GPU horsepower with crossfire, with one these . Will this work and not mess up Eyefinity?

As far as the cockpit, 2d is disappointing, but I am using wideview (with FSUIPC), and the PM GA panel. Have to find something less expensive for the jets - can't afford PM's jet packages. Also using GoFlight panesl for control. Rumors are out that ATI is developing bezel management, can anyone confirm this?

Running an asus p6, i7 920 oc to 3.8, 12 GB Corsair DDR3 1600 Ram, 1000W Corsair psu, air cooling temps maxing out at 68-70 c. All on a desk now and Hope to see a pic of Twisted or Michelle's cockpit as I am in the planning stages now.

I appreciate your input and help

[twisted8]

Michelle here is a pic of my setup, I have updated several things but you get the idea. The 3 monitors on the top are hooked up to the 5850 and the 2 monitors for instruments are hooked up to the 4670 all in one PC.

As you can see my 2d panels are not streched out using this setup. You can run any aircraft in FSX and just drag the 2D panels to the bottom monitors without worrying about networking the gauges.
Have you guys tried simply resizing the 2D panel? you should be able to grab the edge and make it smaller until it looks proportionate.

RhodeNet, I've heardthat crossfire is a waste for FSX, it doesn't take advantage of it. Better off just running more monitors which is really nice to have, specially with your setup!
I run the Level-D 767 with nico's lekseecon and opencockpits hardware. Haven't had a need for networked PC's or expensive software.

I've heard too about bezel management but as of right now it's not there!


http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3035

[RhodeNet]

Michelle here is a pic of my setup, I have updated several things but you get the idea. The 3 monitors on the top are hooked up to the 5850 and the 2 monitors for instruments are hooked up to the 4670 all in one PC.

As you can see my 2d panels are not streched out using this setup. You can run any aircraft in FSX and just drag the 2D panels to the bottom monitors without worrying about networking the gauges.
Have you guys tried simply resizing the 2D panel? you should be able to grab the edge and make it smaller until it looks proportionate.

RhodeNet, I've heardthat crossfire is a waste for FSX, it doesn't take advantage of it. Better off just running more monitors which is really nice to have, specially with your setup!
I run the Level-D 767 with nico's lekseecon and opencockpits hardware. Haven't had a need for networked PC's or expensive software.

I've heard too about bezel management but as of right now it's not there!


http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3035

This is GREAT information, I really like the idea of using the video from a second non-crossfired radeon. I am going to give this a try.
Your cockpit, is essentially what I had in mind. It would great with some birch face plywood. Also your throttle quadrant is really nice, did you design that yourself?
Thanks
Chuck (Rhodenet)

[litebkt]

Michelle here is a pic of my setup, I have updated several things but you get the idea. The 3 monitors on the top are hooked up to the 5850 and the 2 monitors for instruments are hooked up to the 4670 all in one PC.


Yup. I'll follow your lead on this one. Your setup looks very nice. Mine will be somewhat less cool. I've got the three large monitors up in back so that will be similar. However I'm planning on the dash landscape monitor right in front of the yoke, then some GoFlight controls to its right. Then I'll put another monitor in portrait mode directly above where the throttle controls "should" go. My Hubby got me a Logitech flight stick, pedals, and throttle for Christmas. The throttle is left handed. So, for a while, I'll use it on the left but I'll leave space for a throttle quadrant on the right. I'll disable the stick but keep the trim controls it has on it, so I'll need to find a place for it. My goal is to lower the top edge of the flight panel so that I can get the best view possible of the monitors behind it. Besides, one or two of those big monitors in back will have to perform double duty as a TV and computer monitor for other necessary stuff.


As you can see my 2d panels are not streched out using this setup. You can run any aircraft in FSX and just drag the 2D panels to the bottom monitors without worrying about networking the gauges.
Have you guys tried simply resizing the 2D panel? you should be able to grab the edge and make it smaller until it looks proportionate.


I can't display the 2D cockpit at all in my eyefinity setup (3D only). But that's okay because those 3 big monitors will be dedicated to the outside views which does work. However, I can call up any of the extra controls available from the menus. As for resizing them.... I haven't had much luck while on the eyefinity screens. We'll see when I get the new video card what I need to do. BTW, I think that I'm going to keep the 600W power supply for the moment. I really think that I'll be able to run both video cards off it. I'm metering current flow and it's less than 2 amps. I can't believe that this monstrosity I built is so power efficient.


...Haven't had a need for networked PC's or expensive software.

That's my direction. I don't mind spending a few bucks though if someone has gone through the effort to create something I'm interested. I know that there are some cool panels and such out there. I'll wait and see what I can do on my own first. I do know that there's a lot of free stuff as well.


I've heard too about bezel management but as of right now it's not there!

Bezel management is not an issue for me. My mind totally ignores the problem. The key thing is having that unobstructed monitor in the middle. If you had only two monitors, it would be staring you in the face every time you sat down.

I'm upgrading to Win7 today.... I'm sad to see my Itunes app go bye bye. I'll have to fire up one of my old machines to serve as my itunes music repository and update my Ipod.

Michelle

[twisted8]

This is GREAT information, I really like the idea of using the video from a second non-crossfired radeon. I am going to give this a try.
Your cockpit, is essentially what I had in mind. It would great with some birch face plywood. Also your throttle quadrant is really nice, did you design that yourself?
Thanks
Chuck (Rhodenet)
Glad to be able to help!
Thanks! the throttle is from a company called vraircraft, a beautiful unit but unfortunately they charge double the price for it now, not sure why. It used to be a good deal.
Good luck with your set up, you have a nice rig which is great a foundation!

[twisted8]

Yup. I'll follow your lead on this one. Your setup looks very nice. Mine will be somewhat less cool. I've got the three large monitors up in back so that will be similar. However I'm planning on the dash landscape monitor right in front of the yoke, then some GoFlight controls to its right. Then I'll put another monitor in portrait mode directly above where the throttle controls "should" go. My Hubby got me a Logitech flight stick, pedals, and throttle for Christmas. The throttle is left handed. So, for a while, I'll use it on the left but I'll leave space for a throttle quadrant on the right. I'll disable the stick but keep the trim controls it has on it, so I'll need to find a place for it. My goal is to lower the top edge of the flight panel so that I can get the best view possible of the monitors behind it. Besides, one or two of those big monitors in back will have to perform double duty as a TV and computer monitor for other necessary stuff.

Bezel management is not an issue for me. My mind totally ignores the problem. The key thing is having that unobstructed monitor in the middle. If you had only two monitors, it would be staring you in the face every time you sat down.

I'm upgrading to Win7 today.... I'm sad to see my Itunes app go bye bye. I'll have to fire up one of my old machines to serve as my itunes music repository and update my Ipod.

Michelle

Ah ok that sounds like a good idea, my setup is pretty basic and I enjoy it very much. I'm sure you will too. Def try the 600W PSU and see how it goes, it might be OK. At least if the PC gives you trouble you know where to start looking. Very nice of your husband getting you that stuff, does he use it too?

Regarding the lack of bezel management I'm doing this little trick where you put the 2 side monitors a bit behind the center monitors and it work's pretty good. You also get less bezel from the monitors. Something you might want to try. Here is a shot:
http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3417

[Matt Olieman]

Clever idea, but it seems to work.

I've got to tell you folks, this has been a fascinating topic and am really amazed at the new video technology available, this is exciting!!! :) :) :)

Thanks for all of your comments.

Matt Olieman


Ah ok that sounds like a good idea, my setup is pretty basic and I enjoy it very much. I'm sure you will too. Def try the 600W PSU and see how it goes, it might be OK. At least if the PC gives you trouble you know where to start looking. Very nice of your husband getting you that stuff, does he use it too?

Regarding the lack of bezel management I'm doing this little trick where you put the 2 side monitors a bit behind the center monitors and it work's pretty good. You also get less bezel from the monitors. Something you might want to try. Here is a shot:
http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3417

[ECMO1]

Very interesting read so far. Thanks for all the ideas. I'm facing similar issues: running (3)ViewSonic VA2323WM monitors in a 1X3 Eyefinity configuration with my XFX Radeon 5870 and (1) ViewSonic N2750W on my XFX Radeon 5770. I'm running Win 7 Pro 64 bit and according to Catayst (v10.2) this configuration works fine. I can display webpages and play video with media player through either card. I can drag stuff from one monitor to another (one card to another). When I attempt to run FSX (with Acceleration installed) I can get the 1x3 (on 5870) to run and display fine with DirectX10 selected. However, when I try to place a view/window onto the N2750W (via 5770) the image will not display and more often than not, locks the program. I don`t believe it`s an ATI/Eyefinity issue. More likely a FSX/DirectX issue. But, just in case: is there any known issue with running a set-up like this in conjunction with eyefinity? Do I need to use a second 5870 instead of the 5770 for compatability even though I'm not in Crossfire and Catalyst 10.2 supports both? I'm going to try deselecting DirectX10 as mentioned in a previous post. But Win 7 installs DirectX11 anyway. Is there a way to disable DirectX all together, and do I want to? Frustration with FSX has me considering a move to X-Plane but to get the right visuals would require slave PCs in a LAN since it won't display multiple undocked views (hope they fix this). As Michelle pointed out, I don't want to go there. Thanks in advance.

CPU: i7 920 (unclocked and cool: 102 Deg F)

MOBO : ASRock X58 Extreme

Memory: Corsair XMS3 (3X2GB DDR3) (unclocked)

GPU 1: Radeon HD5870 (Eyefinity 1X3)

GPU 2: Radeon HD5770 (Single monitor)

PSU: Corsair HX1000W

OS: Win 7 Pro 64bit

Driver: Catalyst 10.2

Directx 11

[rjvcarvalho]

Michelle here is a pic of my setup, I have updated several things but you get the idea. The 3 monitors on the top are hooked up to the 5850 and the 2 monitors for instruments are hooked up to the 4670 all in one PC.

As you can see my 2d panels are not streched out using this setup. You can run any aircraft in FSX and just drag the 2D panels to the bottom monitors without worrying about networking the gauges.
Have you guys tried simply resizing the 2D panel? you should be able to grab the edge and make it smaller until it looks proportionate.

RhodeNet, I've heardthat crossfire is a waste for FSX, it doesn't take advantage of it. Better off just running more monitors which is really nice to have, specially with your setup!
I run the Level-D 767 with nico's lekseecon and opencockpits hardware. Haven't had a need for networked PC's or expensive software.

I've heard too about bezel management but as of right now it's not there!


http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3035

Hello, very good information, thanks for sharing.

Could you post your pc specs? I would like to know what motherboard are you using for non crossfire setup, thanks.

[RhodeNet]

Hi Kurby,
I am using an ASUS p6, I7 920, overclocked to 3.6ghz; 12 GB corsair RAM (OverKill, but I do some virtualization), 2 WD 1500, 10000RPM velociRaptor in a Raid 0.
Current video card, Sapphire radeon 5850 (Eyefinity) and will add a radeon 4870 for my instruments. Running Windows 7, 64 Bit

[ECMO1]

Hello, very good information, thanks for sharing.

Could you post your pc specs? I would like to know what motherboard are you using for non crossfire setup, thanks.

Kurby,

I'm using an ASRock X58 Extreme motherboard. Might upgrade to ASUS if necessary. I have 2 ATI graphics cards installed: (1) 5870 and (1) 5770. Although they are each capable of Crossfire (not with each other until Catalyst 10.3 is released, so I'm told) I run them as seperate cards. Both cards are supported by Catalyst 10.2. The 5870 is running 3 X 1080p monitors in Eyfinity and the 5770 is only running 1 monitor (not eyefinity). I'd hoped to use the widescreen Eyefinity for the main view and the 4th monitor (or more, if able) for panel/exterior views. But so far I can't.

I'm stumped but not defeated!

[twisted8]

No problem, glad to be able to help!
I really didn't have to do anything special to get the two cards working. Two things I would highly recommend to be able run FSX in full screen is to disable directx10 preview and to check, double check and triple check that the display resolution set in the FSX is the same exact resolution you are using in windows for your desktop, if I have a different resolutions in FSX I get blank screens. I have a 7" monitor and FSX likes to force a different resolution, different than my desktop so I have to manually set the resolution in the fsx.cgf
So what i mean is make sure the resolutions when you righ-tclick on your desktop and go to screen resolutions is the same as when in FSX you go into the display settings.

here is my pc specs:

* ATI Radeon HD 5850 1GB
* ATI Radeon HD 4670 512MB
* Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor (OC to 3.6Ghz)
* Foxconn BlackOps X48 LGA 775 Intel X48 ATX Intel Motherboard
* 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333
* CORSAIR 850W PSU

*Windows 7 ultimate 64bit

I'm using the latest ATI drives 10.2 I believe but it has work with any 10.x version.
Hope this helps!

[litebkt]

twisted8,

After installing the 5670 card, I was able to connect all 5 monitors. However, I'm still having problems with the 2D cockpit with an unacceptable "quivering" mouse which makes it impossible to do anything and a flight will eventually crash. I unplugged the big monitors and plugged them into the 5670 leaving the ports on the 5850 unused. The problem went away. I've got a bad 5850 card!

Can you tell me which brand of the ATI 5850 card you are using? Mine is an XFX. I don't know if I can return it to NewEgg or not but I can't deal with this problem any longer. I'm ready to fork out whatever it takes to get this working.

Thanks again for your help.

Michelle

[RhodeNet]

Hi Michelle,
Well, seems I had better luck today, than you did, Michelle!
Moved my FSX box to my den, where I am going to build my simpit.
I configured my t hree Dell 24" monitors in a group, and no problem. Added my 4870, and put another monitor off that for the panels and now have 3 running in a wide configuration. Opened up a window for the instrument panel, undocked it and moved the window to the nuimber 4 monitor on the 4870, with no problems.
I will say, the frame rates dropped dramatically, but did did a short flight from KBOS to KPVD at sunset, and it was great. In fact, my wife joined me in the cockpit and we did cocktails as we did the flight (thank God for ILS).
Honestly, we have to keep in mind the Eyefinity is brandy new and they do have a lot more work to do. I still have my PM GAIFR panel, and it works great too. Not difficult to setup, and offloads a lot from the FSX maching. Found some good open source panels for the jets, so I may look at this as "plan B".
Twisted, I really appreciate you pointing me this w ay, and you have me interested flying the "heavy iron"

By the way, updated Catalyst today, and the quivering mouse went away. I have the Sapphire 5850 and sapphire 4870.

[ECMO1]

O.K. I think I've put all of the pieces together and figured it out. Thanks to everyone for

the ideas and help.

Multiple issues are at work here.

1. When I open FSX it causes Catalyst to "forget" my carefully planned desktop

configuration. The position and resolution settings for the monitor connected to my second

graphics card (not in eyefinity) is zeroized somehow.

Answer: After starting FSX, check and set display options for each card. Minimize FSX and

open Catalyst. Setup desktop displays and resolution to match what you set in FSX. For

example: I run 3 monitors in eyefinity (1080p) on a 5870 card; on a second card I run a

signle monitor that likes 1280 x 720. FSX allows me to set the resolution for each card

seperately.

2. FSX doesn't like DirectX and causers all sorts of bad display stuff.

Answer: Ensure the DIrextX 10 option in the FSX display settings page IS NOT CHECKED before

starting your flight!! Seems to be very important.

3. FSX doesn't seem to like creating and moving undocked windows while the primary display

(eyefinity) is in full screen mode.

Answer: Before selecting full screen mode on your primary display (eyefinity) create, undock

and move your undocked alternate screens to the monitor you want to put them on. Resize as

required. Then, switch primary discplay into full screen. Always pause and come out of full

screen before adding new undocked windows.


I also added a TrackIR head tracker to use in virtual cockpit views. Just playing with it

right now but it's very easy to install and use.

Next, I'll connect and configure my CH Products Flight System.

See attached picture for my first success. I love it!!


CPU: i7 920 (unclocked and cool: 102 Deg F)

MOBO : ASRock X58 Extreme

Memory: Corsair XMS3 (3X2GB DDR3) (unclocked)

GPU 1: Radeon HD5870 (Eyefinity 1X3)

GPU 2: Radeon HD5770 (Single monitor)

PSU: Corsair HX1000W

OS: Win 7 Pro 64bit

Driver: Catalyst 10.2

Directx 11 (Win 7) Don't select in FSX!!

[twisted8]

that's good news, glad it's working now!
Haven't had issues with #3 but that's good to know just in case. Looking good!


twisted8,

Can you tell me which brand of the ATI 5850 card you are using? Mine is an XFX. I don't know if I can return it to NewEgg or not but I can't deal with this problem any longer. I'm ready to fork out whatever it takes to get this working.

Thanks again for your help.

Michelle
Michelle, in case you didn't get my PM my 5850 is a Sapphire card


Hi Michelle,
Well, seems I had better luck today, than you did, Michelle!
Moved my FSX box to my den, where I am going to build my simpit.
I configured my t hree Dell 24" monitors in a group, and no problem. Added my 4870, and put another monitor off that for the panels and now have 3 running in a wide configuration. Opened up a window for the instrument panel, undocked it and moved the window to the nuimber 4 monitor on the 4870, with no problems.
I will say, the frame rates dropped dramatically, but did did a short flight from KBOS to KPVD at sunset, and it was great. In fact, my wife joined me in the cockpit and we did cocktails as we did the flight (thank God for ILS).
Honestly, we have to keep in mind the Eyefinity is brandy new and they do have a lot more work to do. I still have my PM GAIFR panel, and it works great too. Not difficult to setup, and offloads a lot from the FSX maching. Found some good open source panels for the jets, so I may look at this as "plan B".
Twisted, I really appreciate you pointing me this w ay, and you have me interested flying the "heavy iron"

By the way, updated Catalyst today, and the quivering mouse went away. I have the Sapphire 5850 and sapphire 4870.

Not a problem, glad you can enjoy it now! for better FPS also try a lower display resolution, it might still be sharp enough for your liking! also are you using full screen?

[litebkt]

3. FSX doesn't seem to like creating and moving undocked windows while the primary display

(eyefinity) is in full screen mode.

Answer: Before selecting full screen mode on your primary display (eyefinity) create, undock

and move your undocked alternate screens to the monitor you want to put them on. Resize as

required. Then, switch primary discplay into full screen. Always pause and come out of full

screen before adding new undocked windows.

How do you start FSX "not" in full screen mode?

Michelle

[litebkt]

Okay..... I think I've got my set up working.... at least with a 20 minute flight, the system did not crash. Here is what I did.

I paused the flight. I made sure that the menu bar was visible and that the window's control boxes (in the upper left of the screen) were visible. Alt + Enter puts/takes the view in and out of the full screen mode and makes this happen. My outside view filled the three big screens.

Then, I still had problems opening a control guage. It would be three times to wide and about a third taller than it should be with horrid resolution. Note that my cursor was still quivering. So, I resized my window on the big screens (making it smaller) to where it fit on one screen. This was done in 2D mode with a full view outside forward (don't do it with the 2D cockpit showing because it just plain won't).

I opened the guages I wanted and a couple extra views and placed them on to my smaller screens. Note that my cursor was still quivering. I sized the extra views to where I wanted them. The guages looked fine. I saved the flight and then reopened it and paused the flight.

The guages went where they were supposed to be as well as the additional views. But they were not displayed properly. There was a box outlining their proper size but the guages themselves were very small and located in the upper left corner of each box. I clicked on each and they assumed their shape and size as I had placed them. The additional views however were also small and I had to resize them.

But... no quivering cursor! And everything looked great and performed quite nicely.

Note that with my setup working I can not do anything that invokes any thing involved with the 2D cockpit controls. So, if I try to bring up the mini display.... the cursor starts acting up again (the W key) If I try to swap the outside view to the 2D cockpit, the cursor goes nuts and I lose the bottom third of my large display. I may have to remove the W and F10 keys from a keyboard to prevent this from happening.

I'm hoping that ATI addresses this problem. It is strange that their lower end cards handle this without any problems. It's when you get to the cards that run 3 monitors that the problem shows itself. I've been scouring the web about this problem and many people are having similar issues.

Now that I have the hardware working. It's time to build the flight desk! I've done some pencil drawings. I've thought about doing a CAD drawing of some sort... but nah.... I'll just go cut some wood.

Michelle

[ECMO1]

How do you start FSX "not" in full screen mode?

Michelle

Michelle,

Sorry, you are absolutely correct. FSX does start in Full Screen mode. The first thing I do is Pause and deselect Full Screen in the Views Menu. Then, I open and undock add'l views and place them on my 4th monitor, resize them and finally return my primary display to Full Screen. This may just be a peculiarity of my setup. If I try to open and move windows around while I'm in Full Screen mode FSX becomes unstable and usually locks my system.

I did one other thing that I forgot to mention before but don't think it matters. I downloaded and installed DirectX 9.0C. I don't know if it helped and don't even know if it runs with DirectX 11 already installed by Win 7 and the DirectX 10 option not selected on the setup page. Can multiple DirectX versions be installed and run at the same time? I don't know. DXDIAG reports DirectX11 running and I have not tried to stop it or remove it. In retrospect, maybe it's just the DirectX 10 option that crashes FSX and not DirectX 11. I think DirectX 11 runs even if I don't select the DirectX 10 option (running Win-7).

[twisted8]

In case anybody missed it, ATI's CC 10.3 now supports bezel management! I tried last night it works good on both windowed mode and full screen! Good stuff

[ECMO1]

Kurby,

I'm using an ASRock X58 Extreme motherboard. Might upgrade to ASUS if necessary. I have 2 ATI graphics cards installed: (1) 5870 and (1) 5770. Although they are each capable of Crossfire (not with each other until Catalyst 10.3 is released, so I'm told) I run them as seperate cards. Both cards are supported by Catalyst 10.2. The 5870 is running 3 X 1080p monitors in Eyfinity and the 5770 is only running 1 monitor (not eyefinity). I'd hoped to use the widescreen Eyefinity for the main view and the 4th monitor (or more, if able) for panel/exterior views. But so far I can't.

I'm stumped but not defeated!

OK. My ASRock X58 MoBo burned up (don't know why) and I finally upgraded to the ASUS P6X58D Premium board, added 6 Mb more RAM, and replaced my HDDs with (2) 300Mb Western Dig VRaptors in RAID 0. I didn't want to spend the $$ but, the results were phenomenal! I can run FSX maxed-out and sweamlessly smooth.

Upgraded to Catalyst 10.3 but, still have problems with FSX reseting my Catalyst settings when I start it. Also, FSX forgets my video settings every time I start it. What I've had to do as a work around is:

1. Create a profile in Catalyst with the Eyefinity set-up (including bexel management) that I want to use for FSX.

2. Start FSX and minimize it.

3. Open Catalyst and select my save flight sim profile.

4. Check and set video settings in FSX.

5. Open and place FSX views where I want them.


Catalyst also drops my configuration every time I restart/reset my computer. It's annoying but, it works so well once I reload my desktop settings that I'm not too worried about it. I have posted this problem on the tech-help page at ATI.

Over-all I am very satisfied with this set-up. It cost a little more than I wanted to pay but, for the FIRST TIME EVER I can really run Flight Sim like I've always wanted.

[twisted8]

I have the same problem with Catalyst dropping my configuration. I have a shortcut to my profile that I have to run every time
Good to hear is running good tho otherwise. If you find a way around that bug please post!

[Stevsky]

Not a problem, glad to be able to help!
Yeah I use Catilylist manager and you can set up all your monitors in any layout you want and you can get to all of them with your mouse, that won't be a problem!

Hi everyone
I just started using ATI 5870. Only problem I have with a 3 monitor setup is in full screen. In full screen I get a clone of the virtual cockpit on each monitor. The only way I can use it is to alt-enter out of full screen and then stretch that across all three monitors, then I end up with the tool bar at the bottom and the menu tabs at the top. Does anyone have a work around for this in order to use the full screen across all 3 monitors. I do have them grouped 3X1 and using Win 7 64 bit. Also is there a way to zoom below the 30% limit to get a better view of the cockpit along with the outside?