OC IOCard, what's the secret ?

[Wendy]

Hello,

Last week my OC cards arrived, master, usb-expansion and display cards. Ordered mounted and tested cards. Well so far for the good news... am I doing something wrong or is there a faulty card involved.

I cannot get this to work and need some help getting started. Here's what I've been doing.

-Installed the latest software from opencockpits.
-Next I've connected usb expansion to the master card via connector J1 (directly without cable). I've also connected 5 Volt to the master card.
-Then plugged it into an usb-bus and started SIOC.exe, this program showed me that 1 card is running under device number 13.
-Followed some instructions which I've found on the hispapanels website to test the card and it told me to start Controlador.exe after correcting controlador.ini. I've left the number for the device on 2048 althought i've also tried device 13. Pressed the start-button and a message tells me that the card is running.

...Well nothing happens at all, inputs don't do anything, outputs are all active (high) tested with a led and measured with a multimeter.


If someone has any idea what is wrong, I would appreciate your help.


Kind regards, Wendy

[Polmer]

You are on the right track.......

Right now, just focus your attention on the controller.exe program, dont even bother with the SIOC.exe yet, that will come later.

Do you have the opencockpits breakout board? If so, I would launch the controller program, get it running, then try and short out one of the inputs first.
When you short a input out, you will see a number flash in the controller window briefly, and the last input detected will also be shown in the small blue window.

~Polmer

[fordgt40]

Wendy

You say that you are not using a cable to join the USB and Mastercards. I assume that you have a good direct connection and have removed the screw stand offs that are used to "pull in" and secure the cable connectors

Regards

David

[tomenglish2000]

Also make sure that when you added the 5V supply to the master card that the positive was attached closest to the parallel port.

Tom.

[Wendy]

Hello All,

The positive is indeed connected to the side of the db9 connector.

For the connection between the 2 boards I did indeed removed the screws and metal and connected the both boards manually (if that is necessary i don't know).

For the J3 connector which is opposite to the parallel connector (I suppose it is J3) is it correct that pin 1 is outside, right side of the board (parallel connector facing towards me) ?

I have the board in front of me with the parallel connector showing my side. To set an input I've connected the inner row (closest to the parallel connector), 5th pin (gnd) counting from right to left with one of the pins on the right side. difficult to explain... hope you understand.

This does nothing in the controlador.exe.


Regards, Wendy

[kiek]

Hi,

Are you aware of the difference between logical pin numbers and physical pin numbers?

More info can be found here:
http://personales.ya.com/micabina737/iocards/hard/guiai.htm
and in particular numbering (http://personales.ya.com/micabina737/iocards/hard/numi.htm)

regards,
Nico

[Wendy]

Thanks for the link, this is the one I was following to get this thing going.

I'm trying to identify the pin numbers (connector) on the board and not the input port numbers.


Regards, Wendy

[Wendy]

Well, a picture says more than thousand words... the red line is what I have connected to set an input.


http://www.querit.eu/FS/iocard.jpg


Regards, Wendy

[fordgt40]

Wendy

Your pin connections for the inputs seem correct, but what are the other heavy black leads doing in the photograph?

Regards

David

[No Longer Active]

Would that be to earth the 2 boards together?

[Wendy]

Hi David,


Because I removed the metal housing, I thought I'll try to connect the grounds from both connectors, but I removed them in the meantime. That did not helped either.

Still nothing that works in the controlador, except the message that the card is running.


Regards, Wendy

[Wendy]

Yes indeed Alex,


Regards, Wendy

[fordgt40]

Wendy Alex


Edit { sorry please ignore this response - I missed your post above!!)

Thats what I was wondering - it is not necessary as the respective pins on the DB25 connectors provide any required linkage. I should remove this earth link and see if it makes any difference.

Regards

David

[twisted8]

the red circle is kind of broad, can specify exactly which pins you are shorting to test the inputs?
edit: nevermind, i see the end of the line points the inputs.. hmm..

[wannabeaflyer]

Hi Wendy , just a note of caution learnt from a mistake i made ,, i noticed in your picture that you have temporarly used Croc clips to suppley the 5V to the master card , mine slipped shorted puff of smoke burnt out track Big Homer simpson D'oh LOL:-) luckly i was able to trace and bypass the burnt track make that disintegrated track and so saved my mastercard , just athought as i know how easy it is to move stuff while learning how to use this card . my current setup is Master card driven through parallel port but will go the USB rouite when ithe funds are available will try to dig out some links i found regarding SOIC and Open cockpits stuff ( if i remember a lot was in french but Babelfish to the rescue ) have fun great product just apity some stuff get lost in the translation , but you cant fault the guys bang for bucks ..

[Wendy]

Hello,

@twisted
Here's a new picture, I have counted from the top of the picture to the bottom.
http://www.querit.eu/FS/iocard.jpg

@wannabeaflyer
Yes I know, I have to be carefully with these croc clips. If you could find some extra links even in French I would appreciate.


Kind regards, Wendy

[Wendy]

Hello All,

Still no solution for my problem. I also mailed OpenCockpits to see if they have a solution.

If anyone knows how to find out if a card (master or usb) is working ok, I would be glad to hear it.


Kind regards, Wendy

[wannabeaflyer]

http://home.hccnet.nl/jwopdenakker/IOcards.html#Ggeo159 At work now but will check my home PC for mor later like they say every little bit helps ;-)

[Wendy]

Hi All,

Thanks for all the help, unfortunately I'm still stuck with this problem. I also mailed to OC info and later to sales but... no reply. I also searched their forum for answers.

From your replies I think I can conclude that the hardware wiring is OK.

So what could it be, is it a defective card or could it be software related (I'm using sioc 3.7). What do the experts think ?


Regards Wendy

[kiek]

So what could it be, is it a defective card or could it be software related (I'm using sioc 3.7).

SIOC is not needed for this test with Controlador. Do not run it.
You should see logical pin number 08 in controlador. If not, try another input in this group of 9. Try on/off just like a switch.

Did you check with a multi meter you really have add +5V to the MC?

Try to put the MC at another connector of the USB exp card. I recommend to use a DB25 male - female cable with 25 1-1 connections, for that instead of the direct connector/connector method like you did.

If nothing still works, maybe it's controlador having problems. Then connect a real switch to an input, make a short SIOC script, run SIOC and see what happens if you toggle the switch.


Nico

[Wendy]

Thanks Nico,

I'll try your suggestions. Just have to go out first and buy the DB25 cable. Let you know how this works out.


Thanks Wendy

[Wendy]

Hello Nico,

Just made some tests.

First of all I connected the cards with a 1:1 DB25 cable. Tried all 4 connectors on the USB card.

Without starting the controlador, all outputs go high. Starting the controlador then inputs start flashing at random (wel maybe not, some ports don't appear), see picture. Even if I disconnect the MC. Outputs are all high (checked with multimeter).

Next thing I did was connect the MC directly to the parallel port, changed the controlador.ini and then I was able to put an output on or off. Inputs don't do anything at all via the parallel port.

I've added a screendump from the controlador with usb and MC. You cannot see it flashing here, but it is constantly writing inputs to the screen. I don't have this when the MC is connected directly to the parallel port.

I hope you can make any sense of this strange behaviour...

Thanks in advance for looking at this.
Regards, Wendy

http://www.querit.eu/FS/controlador.jpg

[Suggy]

Hi, Wendy.

I have found that if the master cards are not powered then the inputs start to flash just as your controladar programme is showing.

I would start at the begining and ensure that the master card is being powered correctly (5v).

Regards,
Darren Sugden
www.sugden.karoo.net
Video of my A320 cockpit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7YIWPtRuxs

[Wendy]

Hi Darren,


Thanks for replying.
The master card is powered with a laboratory power supply regulated to 5 volt. I checked on some IC's that they have power and they do have, I did'nt however checked them all.

Strange thing is, even when I use the usb-card alone flashing continues in the controlador.


Thanks Wendy

[fordgt40]

Wendy

As I understand it:-

1. Initially with a direct connection between MC and USB card - inputs did nothing and all outputs were high

2. With new cable inputs flash randomly and outputs remain high

3. Re-connecting directly between the MC and USB cards outputs now work but inputs are dead

So the new cable did nothing, but reconnecting directly you found that outputs work, whereas previously with the same connection they did not.

This suggests to me that you are making an intermittent connection when not using the db cable. This is not surprising as a direct connection is not advisable

The strange thing is that the new cable did not improve matters. Are you certain that you purchased a direct 25 to 25 way cable - this is not the same as a "typical printer parallel" cable which does not actually connect all pins. It might be worth checking the pinouts continuity with a meter.

Good luck

Regards

David

[Suggy]

Hi, Wendy.

Could you post (or paste here a copy) your iocard.ini and controlador.ini files for me to have a look at.

You never know, it might be an incorrect setting in the *.ini file and is software related rather than hardware.

Regards,
Darren

[Wendy]

Hi All,

@David
Well the new cable brought live into it. Althought not the kind of live I was expecting. But it actually did something especially when connected directly to the parallel port.
I just checked the pins from the DB25 cable and they are all connected 1:1.

@Darren
I do not find a iocard.ini file.
Here are the settings of the controlador.ini.


Thanks for looking at this.

Kind regards, Wendy


[ fichero de configuracion para el programa CONTROLADOR ]
[ Configuration file for CONTROLADOR ]

[ Uso de Expansión USB ]
[ Iocard Master expansion USB ]
USB=yes

[ Múltiples USBs ]
[ Non unique USB ]
MUSB=No

[ Número de periférico para el USB ]
[ USB Device number ]
deviceUSB=2048


[ Número de A/D a usar de la placa de Expansión USB ]
[ A/D used by Iocard Master expansion USB ]
USB_AD=0


[ Puerto donde se encuentra conectada la IOCard Master ]
[ Iocard Master, parallel port address ]
Port=$0378


[ Modo compatible yes/no , necesita cable especial ]
[ Compatibility Mode yes/no, needed special cable ]
FullCompatible=No


[ Utiliza placa de expansión yes/no]
[ Use Expansion card yes/no]
Expansion=yes

[ Activar en modo SIMULADOR yes/no]
[ Use simulated card yes/no]
simulator=no

[ Numero de tarjetas Master inter-conectadas ]
[ Number of connected master cards ]
NCards=1

[ Refresco de poll tarjetas Master ]
[ Master cards refresh ]
MasterRefresh=10

Filter=no


[ End of File ]

[Suggy]

Hi, Wendy.

I have compared my controlador.ini to yours and there are two differences which you may want to experiment with:

#1
[ Número de A/D a usar de la placa de Expansión USB ]
[ A/D used by Iocard Master expansion USB ]
USB_AD=0

My file shows: USB_AD=4

#2
[ Utiliza placa de expansión yes/no]
[ Use Expansion card yes/no]
Expansion=yes

My file shows: Expansion=no

Maybe worth changing since mine definitely works!
Fingers crossed..........
Failing that, have you attached the USB module to another computer and tried it that way?

Regards,
Darren

P.S. Ignore my request for IOCard.ini - you obviously haven't ued it (From your previous posts, I'm assuming you are intending to use SIOC only).

[Wendy]

Hello Darren and all helpfull members,

Followed your ini settings, without succes. I also connected the usb and MC to another pc and guess what... same problem. Also rechecked the cable.

So I did a little experiment and went back to the direct parallel port connection, so without the usb card.

I found out that all outputs work, but about 50% of the inputs do not work. The one which I used to test earlier does not work either. The inputs that do not work are spread over the 2 connectors.

Can I be sure now that at least the MC is defective or could it still be something else ?



Regards, Wendy

[maliga00]

Hi, my controlador .ini is:

[ fichero de configuracion para el programa CONTROLADOR ]
[ Configuration file for CONTROLADOR ]

[ Uso de Expansión USB ]
[ Iocard Master expansion USB ]
USB=yes

[ Múltiples USBs ]
[ Non unique USB ]
MUSB=No

[ Número de periférico para el USB ]
[ USB Device number ]
deviceUSB=2048


[ Número de A/D a usar de la placa de Expansión USB ]
[ A/D used by Iocard Master expansion USB ]
USB_AD=4


[ Puerto donde se encuentra conectada la IOCard Master ]
[ Iocard Master, parallel port address ]
Port=$0378


[ Modo compatible yes/no , necesita cable especial ]
[ Compatibility Mode yes/no, needed special cable ]
FullCompatible=No


[ Utiliza placa de expansión yes/no]
[ Use Expansion card yes/no]
Expansion=no

[ Activar en modo SIMULADOR yes/no]
[ Use simulated card yes/no]
simulator=no

[ Numero de tarjetas Master inter-conectadas ]
[ Number of connected master cards ]
NCards=1

[ Refresco de poll tarjetas Master ]
[ Master cards refresh ]
MasterRefresh=10

Filter=yes


[ End of File ]


It´s works OK. Please try it.

If it not work, may be an electronics damage in the master card.

Regards
Alberto

[Wendy]

Hello Alberto,

Always the same, flashing inputs and all outputs high.

See my previous post, MC directly connected is the best (oh well) result I can get.


Regards, Wendy

[RadarBob]

Hi Wendy,

Do you have a copy of the IOCards User Manual Annex 1/3 available from OC Website?

This describes an incremental setup/test procedure for the Master, starting from the direct Parallel connection you have.

It also talks about the possibility of similar symptoms you describe ie a number
of inputs (4 I think) in each group failing to be detected if the Parallel Port Mode is not correct - Suggests that user checks the PPort address supplied to controller is same as set in PC Bios and that user experiments with PPort Mode in Bios until it works(!)

If it still doesn't work, then the Manual describes a solution using a 'Compatibility Cable' (details in Annex 3)

Hope this helps - I don't have any of these myself, but I do have the manuals and I remembered reading something about what sounds like your problem a while ago.


Best Regards,

Rob

[Wendy]

Thanks Rob,

I will have to search the OC Website, because I don't have it. This could maybe be a solution as to which card, MC or USB, that does not work.


Kind regards, Wendy

[RadarBob]

Ok Wendy,

I would send it to you but I only have dialup mail at the moment, and it is
quite large.

It seems to me that your Master is probably ok, but if you can prove that first then you can move on to the Expansion.

You should also find the circuit diagrams for the cards on the OC site somewhere.

I had a quick look at the Master circuit diagram last night and as far as I can see, the inputs are read directly through the Parallel Port, and the 'Ground' pins for each group are multiplexed.

As you have at least one input in each group that works, it would appear that the addressing/multiplexing/data selection part is working, and that the problem is in the reading of the port.

Have a try with the Parallel settings, and let us know how you get on.


Cheers,

Rob

[Wendy]

Hi Bob,

Found the manual, thanks.

Did some experimenting with the parallel port settings but with all settings the result is the same as described in the manual. Maybe then it works only with the special cable, which I'm not going to try.

Have again sent a mail to OC but for now no sign of live. If I do not receive any answer from them by this evening, I'll sent both cards back to them.


I want to thank everybody for replying and being so helpfull.

Kind regards, Wendy

[iwik]

Hi Wendy,
Sorry to hear your o/c cards arnt working.Ive been reading your threads and tend to think your USB expansion board is faulty.
If your testing of the mc via parallel port is as per the manual ie only some inputs on each connetcor.This is usually indicative of a non compatable
// port.Some pc's are like that.When i was testing my mc cards i had that problem but i had other pc's to try and found it worked fine.Thats why they came up with the USB expansion bd,to many people had incompatable ports.What i find suspicious is that when mc and usb connected you get all 72 inputs active.Pity you dont have someone handy
so you could swapp.I think your quickest remedy is to return them.
The two mc/usb combos i use worked fine with no probs.
Your .ini files look good.
Good luck,thew boards ar great and work well.
Les

[Wendy]

Hello Les,

I'm sharing your opinion about a faulty usb-card. But just I don't know that for sure.

Received an answer today from OC via the sales mailbox. They are suggesting a few things which I already tried.

They also told me that I can return the cards for checking, and that's what I'm going to do tomorrow.


Thanks again to all members that replied to this thread and I'll keep you informed how this story ends. Happy end I hope.


Kind regards, Wendy

[RadarBob]

Right decision I think Wendy - Hope you get them back soon.

You have probably tried this already, but before you send them back, can I just suggest that you take a close look at the Expansion PCB and make sure that there aren't any bridged tracks/solder splashes and so on - Just a thought.

All the Best,

Rob

[Wendy]

Hi Rob,

I also thought about that possibility, but checked and found no problems.

Thanks anyway. The boards are already packed and leave today direction Spain.


Kind regards, Wendy

[Wendy]

Last week I have received my cards back from OpenCockpits. I had to wait until now to test them. Well... everything works now from the first time, no flashing, no strange things, just as it should be.

Asked OpenCockpits what the problem was, but haven't received an answer on this question. However on the mastercard they have done some soldering to 1 IC (I think they replaced it) and several diodes. On the usb card I can't see anything except that it is the same card I've sent to Spain.

So at last a happy end and ready to start working with these cards.


Thanks again for all your replies and helpfull suggestions.


Kind regards Wendy

[fordgt40]

Wendy

Good news - now you can have some fun!

Regards

David

[RadarBob]

Hi Wendy,

Pleased to hear you have everything working now.

Best Regards,

Rob

[iwik]

Grood news Wendy,
Now you get to enjoy a great interface and hope all goes well.
les

[Tomlin]

Im contemplating checking out the Open Cockpits hardware. Ive heard that the documentation is scarce at best, but my understanding is that they are excellent products that work well (except in your hopefully rare case, Wendy).

I was going to ask, since I could order 2 Master cards (144 inputs) as KITS for less than the price of 1 Master card (72 inputs) that comes built and tested, which route would you guys suggest that have actually used these products or know first hand?

After reading through this nightmare thread, I think now it's best to order a prebuilt and test card...

Thoughts?

[kiek]

Hi Eric,

I would go for the already built and tested cards (I bought 5 Master Cards and 2 USB expansion cards, no problems).

Unless:
* you have experience in soldering electronic components at a pcb, and
* you have test equipment (voltmeter, ...)

regards,
Nico

[Wendy]

My opinion, go for the finished and "tested" cards, when something is wrong you can contact OpenCockpits. I don't know if the kits come with assembly instructions but if the instructions are like the manuals to get it working...

I think the difference in price is to small between kits and ready made. And as Nico states in his reply, you need good soldering skills and a multimeter and I would like to add a temperature controlled soldering station.

Luckily not all OpenCockpit cards end up in a thread like this. But I found myself very happy that I had bought the ready made cards.

Hope this will make it easier for you to make the decision.


Good luck, Wendy

[vcimmino]

I do agree that having the mastercard prebuilt is better.There are 72 tiny diodes to solder apart all the ICs, connectors... there are at least 400 solders to do. That can take up to 7 hours of work if you want to do it carefully and doublecheck every time each solder. And even so you won't be sure that the components have been placed the right way and no shorts are present.

I have 2 mastercards, 1 Output and 1 USB expansion since 2005. Those cards are rock solid, and apart this one thread I've never heard of damaged ones.

[737NUT]

Ever find out what they did to fix the cards? I have some that aren't working as well

[Wendy]

Hello 737NUT,

Asked OpenCockpits what the problem was, but haven't received an answer on this question. However on the mastercard they have done some soldering to 1 IC (I think they replaced it) and several diodes. On the usb card I can't see anything except that it is the same card I've sent to Spain.


Regards, Wendy

[Depth08]

Hello Wendy,

I think they sent me your expansion USB card!
Exactly the same symptoms, the bastards gave me the dissease
I'm gonna have to send them back too

[Wendy]

That would be impossible, because I had put some small markings on the card, these markings were hard to see unless you know where they are. I have received the card back with all markings in place.

Regards, Wendy

[Depth08]

Found out what the trouble was for me.
I was running win7 where it didn't work.
So i tried to run it on 32bit xp, where it did.

So now on win7 I must first connect mastercard & power.
With the usb card having the cable inserted at it's side.
When i'm in Iocards, i connect the usb pc-side & it works.
If there is any more trouble i'll post it here ;)

[Hessel Oosten]

I think they sent me your expansion USB card!
Exactly the same symptoms, the bastards gave me the dissease
I'm gonna have to send them back too

Depth08 (sorry, don't know your name),

Nice to hear that you solved your problem !

With regard to what you wrote above:

Do you think it's now time to make apologies to the OpenCockpits people ?

Hessel Oosten