Should I go to the next level or not ???

[Nick1150]

Hi,

Few months ago I posted this thread with subject "Help me decide which way to go... " (http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/showthread.php?p=86526#post86526). I decided then to stay in a simpler kind of layout, and I was (am) happy with that decision. I enjoy almost every day my small but fair "cockpit". I fly almsot 3 months with this layout, but as all humans, I need MORE :D

Should I start building from scratch a 737-NG cockpit or not ? That's what is in my mind during the last weeks !!! :mrgreen:

Budget is the second thing I am worried about. My number one concern is if this hobby is or will be so important to me, so that $$$$ to be spent will offer equal satisfaction, that is, equal flying time to me.

Engavity full panels, and I mean all panels + throtles + twin jokes + pilot and co-pilot full equipment and possibly a shell for housing for all these are my dream of flying as stated in a youtube video I've seen many times since I started this hobby. New PCs and new monitors, in order to keep the "old" cockpit alive and keep on flying with it until the big project comes alive. That would be my dream, but should I do it ? How much time and effort should I spend for that ? What about the budjet ? What about the space needed ? Many, many questions come in mind when thinking about this dream. Should I go to a doctor fellows ?

The other though is to go as I did up to now... That is, on a step by step basis, If I decide to do it this way.... can I have a full size cockpit with only 6 screens (3 monitors + 3 projectors) and one pc ? Meaning can I build a full size cockpit as above, and then install a new PC, new yoke and throtles, and add my twin TH2GOs and my 6 TFT monitors from my "old" cockpit and continue flying full size ?

Just wanted to share my concerns.

Don't get me wrong... if you feel I shoud see a doctor, go on just say it. After all even doctors charge less than this hobby does :lol:

Nick

:grin:

[kermit]

Hi Nick,
Its like all hobby`s you have to be pleasently insane to go,
were no normal person has gone before(is that right Captain Kirk):grin:
For the next step it is wise to know your budget and purchase the things you can, again how far are you willing to stretch your budget.
And is this hobby fullfilling enough to undergo high levels of stress,dissapointments and sleeples nights.
If you can say yes to all the above ,A new cockpitbuilder is born.
Welcome to the crazy world of mad builders:rolleyes:
greetz

[turbopropdriver]

You seem to already know the answers, but you want our advice.

As you already said;

It's going to cost thousands

You will need more than one PC and a heck of a lot more stuff too

You will need far more time spent building and less spent flying

Only you know if that's what you want, but I'm sure that almost everyone will tell you that during their sim builds there were times they enjoyed it and times they hated it. They will also tell you that it cost them more than they expected. Finally, most of them will tell you it was worth it.

Not much help, but whatever you decide, remember to enjoy it.

[Nick1150]

Hi,

Thanks for the replies ;)

To be honest I have thousand of questions... too many for one thread :rolleyes:

I guest I should make several new threads asking different things or make these questions here :roll:

.... I am stuck :razz:

[LH784]

Hi,

if you have thousands of dollars to spend - you can give a complete cockpit a thought. If budget is an issue, you don't even need to think about getting a whole cockpit, even if the idea crosses your mind.
Like most of us you would have to go step by step. And make sure both your space, your budget and family supprot the project :-)

Make a list of things what you consider most important for yourself. Is it the MCP, is it the radios, is it throttle, is it perhaps the overhead ? Then check if it fits into your budget. By now there are several suppliers if you stick to the 737NG to chose from. Like always, I suppose, the saying is true "you get what you pay for" - although you might get good value for your money, the top products have top prices. research is expensive and time consuming, and that's what you pay for, even if you think "it's just a bit of plastic with a few LEDs and switches in" with material costing a few euros :-) I think, your list is difficult to answer since the price range can be enormous.
I would not consider buying a complete setup (of course you need the money anyway) for other reasons: If you do your project step by step you have a chance to see (a) if it really is your project and really makees you happy, (b) it's always great to look forward to your new pice of equipment and to finally hold it in your hands - you appreciate it much more and (c) you grow your skills and you will need them. There are always things that don't work the way you expect them to work and if you don't have the slightest idea or knowledge of your parts, your whole system and setup you will also have problems finding the bugs.
Therefore - do it the slow, but your own way. And if you decide in a year or two to start collecting stamps rather than flying in a sim you did not waste a fortune.

Regards,
Florian

[Nick1150]

Thanks,

just a note.. I didn't mention anything about be able to buy the whole thing :shock: Or did I ?

I certainly cannot afford such an investment and even if I could I would not do it this way...

I was just refering about the total cost of a full sim theoreticaly :oops:

[LH784]

Did I confuse threads ?
You have too many open on the same subject :-)
Florian

[Nick1150]

sorry Florian for that... indeed you are right I did open another similar thread :roll:

[shearder]

OK I will respond here:

My ideas or 2cents... My ideas and plans changed a number of times. The key is PLANNING!! You need to sit down or fly for a whole weekend and make notes of what you like, what you use and what you want your end result to be. It can cost thousands or hundreds depending on what you want.

i.e. you may want a full blown cockpit with shell and 3 projectors etc etc BUT you can't afford that now... So, plan how you will get there by building stage by stage. Do you have space for your ultimate "goal"?

So put it down on paper. Mine started with a simple "i want more" and I built a very VERY bacis MCP with no LED readouts, light switch and engine panel, built a small circuit board with capacitors and relays and hacked a keyboard for inputs using toggels via the circuit board and push buttons and bought a TM HOTAS Cougar. No sooner had i flown a couple of flights LITERALLY a couple of flights that i decided i needed more.

Again, PLAN - i will build a 737ng/generic cockpit without a FO side. Why? Simple 1st i have no one to fly with!! 2nd reduces cost due to #1 and 3rd space. So now i have started to build FSBUS circuitry, bought 2 x 23" monitors for foward view - may change now to projector!! Then I have a 19" (replaced with 23" LCDs) 4:3 and this will be upper EICAS/Standby and Flag guages. Then I have a 17" CRT for PFD/ND but I think i will use a 19" wide 16:10 for that. My MIP is soon to be built and I have a guy to do panels with a CNC. With the MIP will be the EFIS and MCP and then the OH.

I will initially NOT use a yoke and throttle quadrant because for now my TM HOTAS will do the job and give me nice A3xx fly by wire LOL... but i will still have flap levers, brake lever etc etc - all other levers in the centre.

Perhaps this may change over time perhaps not. It's my cockpit and it is important that i enjoy it!!!

I hope i have shed some light?

In terms of cost - simple -

high cost - off the shelf - quick implementation
low cost (or reasonable LOL) DIYDIYDIY - slow and painful but i believe more satisfying!!!

[Nick1150]

Thanks Shearder ;)

I am still in the process of researching the project...

I know I want more, but I cannot afford a full cockpit at once.

The way I see it is to start with this http://www.flightdecksolutions.com/prod_info.php?id=500 , and then go step by step to the final goal. Eventhough I can afford this first step, I am some how thinking alot about those 7000 euros for start up... Dont get me wrong... If I start, there is no way back for me. I know my self... I will have to go till the end, and it will cost $$$$ for that.

The last thing I am worried about is that I do not want at the time being to spend on a second pc. I would like to stay in one pc with 6 monitors as I am right now.

[shearder]

You could spend a fraction of that and build it yourself or get buddies to help you if you can't and use the balance of the 7000 euro for OH, Pedestal ETC - like i said DIY DIY lol

[Sean Nixon]

If you are willing to spend that amount of $$$ on a single purchase, then why are you wanting to stay away from multiple PC's? It can't be the money.

I just think your sim is going to suffer at some point with just 1 PC.

[shearder]

I just think your sim is going to suffer at some point with just 1 PC.

I agree!! I have 4 PCs with 3 currently running. AND they don't all have to be new. 3 of them are dug out of boxes and throw away areas hat never were thrown away - LOL now i know why i don't throw stuff away!!

You need multiple PCs!! get OLD ones and they work.

[Sean Nixon]

I agree!!

Your quad 2.83GHz OC'ed to 3.15GHz, 5GB DDR800 ram and a GTX250 graphics card starting to creak a little then???:mrgreen:

[shearder]

Your quad 2.83GHz OC'ed to 3.15GHz, 5GB DDR800 ram and a GTX250 graphics card starting to creak a little then???:mrgreen:
LOL not at all. I don't know what life is like below 35fps ;) but then again i don't know what life is like over 215fsp either ;)

OK this may seem like a little contradiction because IF i limit my FPS to 20 then it dips to 17 and 18 at places like Heathrow and JFK but then again i run around 350+ AI airlines. BUT, if i make it unlimited i never drop below 35FPS that i have ever noticed - strange but true - try that!!

So the answer is no :) no creaking and in fact it does the job wonderfully and believe it or not it is only around a year old. Processing power is fine, RAM is much of a muchness even if i went to DDR3 1333 ram I wouldn't notice any speed difference. When i bought the GTX250 the GTX series had JUST come out and that card cost me around $250!!!! But I am planning a GPU upgrade but It isn't urgent by any stretch of the imagination - it will be the new ATI series 5000 cards.

[mabderezai]

Hi Sean,
I am sketching out plans for a full 767 Sim.
...side note, I had first wanted a 747, but the PMDG offsets not being available changed my mind...
I was interested to know how you are using old PCs (how old?) to run your sim? Are you using project magenta? Because the price tag on that would over shadow the usage of old PCs. I am trying to figure out how to connect 3 HD TVs for outside view, and 3 monitors for instruments... I am thinking about using AMD 965 3.4 GHz (equivalent to a 2.8 GHz Intel Chip but much cheaper)...

I am also thinking about 3 graphic cards, and connecting 2 screens to each card... but something tells me thats a bad idea... so maybe I can use another PC... an old PC?

Thanks,

[Nick1150]

You could spend a fraction of that and build it yourself or get buddies to help you if you can't and use the balance of the 7000 euro for OH, Pedestal ETC - like i said DIY DIY lol

that sounds fair.... but how can one do that ? do we have specific dimensions ? :roll:

[shearder]

Hey Nick - to answer you first:

If you go to the file library and look around there I know there are files you can download. Also, do a search for DWG here in the forums and you will get some cad files. Also you can try http://www.737ng.co.uk/ for some ideas.

What i did was i cut the FO side after the landing gear out so i am doing a pedestal, OH, MIP etc but just excluding FO side.

mabderezai: Ok here is an idea of what i am doing:

PC 1: Quad core INTEL @ 3.15GHz; 2.2TB hard drive space; GTX250 graphics and 5GB Ram - This is my main machine that i use for everything incl. FSX - used for front view primarily - have 2 x 23" LCD attached but may go to 1 x 23" and 1 x projector
PC2: old Athlon 2600+, 512MB ram, 80GB hard drive; Nvidia 5200 graphics card: used for PFD/ND and possibly Sim Avionics (good replacement for PM Systems - personal view) - 19" Wide view 16:10
PC3: Athlon XP 1600+, 256mb ram, Nvidia (something) graphics card; 40GB hard drive: used for EICAS/Standby Instruments and Flaps Gauge. - Using 19" standard 4:3

I have a 4th machine which i may use for i.e. weather generation etc etc etc.. can't remember its specs but it is an old Compaq server with SCSI drives etc.

The DWG files i found i edited with a CAD package to my dimensions in terms of switch holes etc as you will probably find switches you find are NOT the same as those in the CAD drawing. The idea is not to use someone's plans 100% UNLESS it suites YOUR purpose. It did NOT suite my purpose 100% and switches i have already from a prior set-up had smaller hole requirements.

If you don't come right PM your email address to me and I will send the original DWG files to you.

To link the PCs you will need Peter Dowson's FSUIPC and WideFS.

Trust me, I also could not afford PM Systems (or rather WON'T pay that price LOL - not that I don't believe it isn't worth it but I have other responsibilities) BUT if you do a little searching there are a couple of alternatives about i.e. Ellie Systems, Sim Avionics etc. Some are instruments only like FSXpand. Just see what you want to do, how far you want to go with logics for example and you will know what you need to use - or just ask :)

You could also modify guages you already have etc to work. See the site i gave you :) He used PMDG guages.

Hope this helps a LITTLE. I am also new to this and there are guys on here nthat have ALL The answers :)

Also. last but definitely NOT least checkout http://www.mikesflightdeck.com/ (Mike Powell's Site) - was a great source of inspiration, NOT forgetting ALL the assistance i got here, and also helped me arrange my thoughts so that I had a GOOD idea of what i wanted!!

[mabderezai]

Hi Shearder,
I looked into Ellie Systems and Cockpitware, The only two that can fit in my budget :D
Would it be possible to run either one over a network through different PCs? That I can reduce the workload on the main computer...

Thanks for your help

[shearder]

As far as i am aware with WideFS from Peter Dowson you would be able to but if i can make a suggestion get a demo of them though this is basically what they were developed for - home cockpits which basically requires networked machines/PCs.