FSX in 3D is it any good? # monitors ?

[roxiedog13]

I have the new computor FSX and the Saitek controls. I now need a good card or two, and monitors probably three.

If the 3D with flightsim is good I would purchase the 120 hz monitors and the Nvidia 3d vision surround system. If it
is as good as they claim of course. Anyone running 3D using Nvidia and is it worth the money ?

Options as I see it right now are:

1) Matrox TH2Go with 3 standard monitors. Cons are lower res and lack of support for new windows and cards

2)ATI Eyefinity with 3 standard monitors . Pros- can run high res, cheaper than Nvidia 3D and 120 hz monitors. Con: not 3D ?

3)Nvidia 3D vision surround with 3 24" 120hz monitors. Pros: 3D (is it worth the $$$) Cons: 24" Monitors not available in North America,expensive, not field tested yet.

3)One large monitor or TV using TrackIr 5. Pros-one card, one monitor,cheaper, can use 3D with the right display Cons: not as good as surround (questionable?)

Edit... one more option # 4

4)Replace my LCD cinema projector with a 3D model and use it for flight sim. Only one screen but 8ft so really big. Probably not an option though as this is a new
projector and the wife/missus would not be happy. Although, then I could watch 3D movies too . Hmmmmmmm?

Any experience or thoughts appreciated. l

[Sean Nixon]

Any experience or thoughts appreciated.

I have limited experience with option 1 (Matrox TH2G and 3 projectors) as I set this up last weekend for the 1st time, on a large curved screen made with 3 Asda (Walmart) King size bedding sheets! If you are considering this option, then I assume you have the space.

The visual effect really has to be seen to be believed. Lower resolution may be a con, but IMO, this far outweighs seeing multiple monitors in front of you. What's the point of pin-point high-res displays, spoilt by unsightly monitor bezels?

Sean

[Steve A]

I have to agree with Sean, I would never go back to a single monitor after getting only a dualhead2go because of space constraints, If you have the space and the cash choose 3 displays.

[roxiedog13]

I have limited experience with option 1 (Matrox TH2G and 3 projectors) as I set this up last weekend for the 1st time, on a large curved screen made with 3 Asda (Walmart) King size bedding sheets! If you are considering this option, then I assume you have the space.

The visual effect really has to be seen to be believed. Lower resolution may be a con, but IMO, this far outweighs seeing multiple monitors in front of you. What's the point of pin-point high-res displays, spoilt by unsightly monitor bezels?

Sean

I agree, the bezels are annoying but I don't have the space for that. I already have a dedicated ceiling mounted LCD projector and 8 foot screen for cinema . In the same room I have the corner computer space only that can fit 3 24"
screens only. Well, I was thinking about replacing the projector with a 3D model which could be option #4. I do think though
that 3 screens is better with trackir and maybe 3D .

[Sean Nixon]

Sorry, I mis-read your initial post, regarding 3D. I wasn't aware you could get 3D!

I would love to see that in action.

[roxiedog13]

Sorry, I mis-read your initial post, regarding 3D. I wasn't aware you could get 3D!

I would love to see that in action.

Yea Nvidia just announced support for their 3d vision surround which is true 3D surround for 3 monitors. Well not just LCD monitors, they are supporting TV and projectors as long as they are 120HZ . Normal 60HZ will not work . A friend of mine
was using the 3D system for a while but had to stop using it because he was getting motion sickness. Must be very realistic
if that is the case. Very expensive though because of the two high end cards and 3 120HZ monitors that are required.

[Airhogg]

I hope this isn't too late for you, but this month I sold my 3 projectors and TH2Go for a single Viewsonic 3D ready projector. This was mainly due to the announcement of Nvidia releasing the 3D Vision Surround which will eliminate the need for the TH2Go when using up to 3 displays. I've discovered that in FSX the 3D itself on a single screen is very immersive and honestly quite astonishing, but there is an issue with the 2D objects (sun, stars, and basically any light, like runway, taxi, and street lights.) Landing at night is a real disappointment in that you basically cannot tell how you're aligned to the runway, but I would be willing to remove the lighting effects altogether if possible to keep the 3D effect.

The TH2Go and Eyefinity will not support multi-display in 3D. The TH2Go cannot achieve the required 120hz refresh rate, so if it's 3D you want, I would go with the 3D Vision and then update to the surround drivers when they come out. I read an article at Tom's Hardware that compatible GPU's are not yet released, but that many current models of Nvidia cards will support the surround once the drivers are available, but you will need 2 cards running in SLI mode. (I'm guessing late 8000 models and above).

There is a new 23" 3D monitor available from Dell. IMO, for the price, 3 22" monitors in 3D surround would not be a bad result and the 1 large display you mentioned with a TrackIR isn't a bad idea either, but I'm not a huge fan of the TrackIR. It works great once you have it set up, but I'm learning that the more I have to "set up" the less I get to fly. It's just too messy, but when you're on a budget it's a great alternative.

My choice would be a single large display (DLP TV or Projector both 120hz 3D ready) or 3 22" 3D LCD's with the 3D Vision Surround. You'll have much better clarity and field of view with the LCD's, but more realistic "size" of your world with the single display.

Sorry I can't answer this more definatively, but it really all comes down to personal preference and budget.

[roxiedog13]

I hope this isn't too late for you, but this month I sold my 3 projectors and TH2Go for a single Viewsonic 3D ready projector. This was mainly due to the announcement of Nvidia releasing the 3D Vision Surround which will eliminate the need for the TH2Go when using up to 3 displays. I've discovered that in FSX the 3D itself on a single screen is very immersive and honestly quite astonishing, but there is an issue with the 2D objects (sun, stars, and basically any light, like runway, taxi, and street lights.) Landing at night is a real disappointment in that you basically cannot tell how you're aligned to the runway, but I would be willing to remove the lighting effects altogether if possible to keep the 3D effect.


The TH2Go and Eyefinity will not support multi-display in 3D. The TH2Go cannot achieve the required 120hz refresh rate, so if it's 3D you want, I would go with the 3D Vision and then update to the surround drivers when they come out. I read an article at Tom's Hardware that compatible GPU's are not yet released, but that many current models of Nvidia cards will support the surround once the drivers are available, but you will need 2 cards running in SLI mode. (I'm guessing late 8000 models and above).

Their is a new 23" 3D monitor available from Dell. IMO, for the price, 3 22" monitors in 3D surround would not be a bad result and the 1 large display you mentioned with a TrackIR isn't a bad idea either, but I'm not a huge fan of the TrackIR. It works great once you have it set up, but I'm learning that the more I have to "set up" the less I get to fly. It's just too messy, but when you're on a budget it's a great alternative.

My choice would be a single large display (DLP TV or Projector both 120hz 3D ready) or 3 22" 3D LCD's with the 3D Vision Surround. You'll have much better clarity and field of view with the LCD's, but more realistic "size" of your world with the single display.

Sorry I can't answer this more definatively, but it really all comes down to personal preference and budget.

Thanks for the input and sorry for the late reply. I will probably go with a single monitor now as my needs have changed. I have recently purchased a 172 on floats so the budget is cut back quite a bit.
I think I will wait until the 24" monitors are available and then start out with one. If I like it enough I
would then get two more including the necessary hardware to run in 3D.

[AK Mongo]

If you have anything less than full surround with full instrumentation, Trackir should be on the priority list. Flying is so much more immersive and fun when you "look" around vs using the keyboard/hat switch.

[Airhogg]

If you have anything less than full surround with full instrumentation, Trackir should be on the priority list. Flying is so much more immersive and fun when you "look" around vs using the keyboard/hat switch.

...unless you end up using 3D. 3D isn't designed to move your head around alot.

[roxiedog13]

...unless you end up using 3D. 3D isn't designed to move your head around alot.

Why then would Nvidia go with tripple monitor? Makes sense though.

[roxiedog13]

If you have anything less than full surround with full instrumentation, Trackir should be on the priority list. Flying is so much more immersive and fun when you "look" around vs using the keyboard/hat switch.

OK, so with three monitors trackir is not really required? Right now I'm on a tighter budget since I bought a real plane. Well ,I
had a two seater already, but needed something a little bigger, so I now have four seats . I think I will start out with a single
large 120hz lcd or tv with TrackIR and see how tha works for me. Right now I only want to learn to use IFR instruments.

[Airhogg]

In my opinion...

TrackIR is not required when using 3 monitors, especially if you are undocking windows for each of them. You can get 180 degrees FOV with just 3 monitors when using the undocking window method and proper zoom settings. I don't yet know how well this will work with the 3D surround. My guess is that it's workable but Flight Simulator is the only program that I'm aware of that has the ability to undock and move view windows. Most games will simply span a single view across the 3 screens. This is fine in Flight Simulator too, but you don't get the FOV you could achieve by using multiple view windows, so the TrackIR would come in handy for a single spanned view on 3 monitors. I'm also curious if there will be bezel management software included in the 3D surround release. I would think this would be important for 3D image alignment. I've experimented with 3 open windows on a single 3D monitor to get an idea on how the 3D effects will line up. The 1st thing I noticed was the 2D white window border lines jumping out at me, but monitor bezels might actually help in this case when using 3 actual monitors. I was unable to get a lined up image well enough to feel good about it, but again, bezels may fix this.

I also experimented all weekend using a 3D projector and 3D Vision with and without TrackIR. I actually had better results this time around with the TrackIR. I adjusted the speed settings and killed every axis except pitch and yaw which really helped. I'm ordering some of the reflective dots in an attempt to mount them somehow to the 3D glasses as I don't always wear a baseball cap or headphones when flying the virtual skies. :idea: As much as I'd love to use 3 projectors in 3D, the cost and questions of undocked window compatibility make me think the TrackIR on a single display is a great solution. 3D was great without the TrackIR as well, and I'll probably only enable TrackIR for takeoffs and landings.

Just a side note...
I moved my projection screen around and tried to find the best position for it when using 3D. I tried it about 5 feet out in front of me, as well as hanging it just about my instrument panel. I finally moved it directly behind my instrument panel (actually touching the back of it and resting about 18 inches below it). In this position, I was able to adjust the convergence settings (F5 and F6) to make the instrument panel of the virtual cockpit "blend in" with my actual panel. I was using the F-18 and adjusted my eyepoint to only allow me to see the HUD of the virtual cockpit which gave the appearance of it resting on top of my actual instrument panel! It was really a remarkable effect merging me and my pit into the flight simulator world! :razz: I then lowered my actual canopy to "meet" the virtual windscreen and I would go as far as to say that it's the closest I've felt so far to the "suspension of disbelief" and before this, I was using 3 projectors for a 180+ degree FOV...only in 2D. So to finally answer the question of this post. YES, 3D is un-freaking believeable when properly set up. :-D

[roxiedog13]

In my opinion...

TrackIR is not required when using 3 monitors, especially if you are undocking windows for each of them. You can get 180 degrees FOV with just 3 monitors when using the undocking window method and proper zoom settings. I don't yet know how well this will work with the 3D surround. My guess is that it's workable but Flight Simulator is the only program that I'm aware of that has the ability to undock and move view windows. Most games will simply span a single view across the 3 screens. This is fine in Flight Simulator too, but you don't get the FOV you could achieve by using multiple view windows, so the TrackIR would come in handy for a single spanned view on 3 monitors. I'm also curious if there will be bezel management software included in the 3D surround release. I would think this would be important for 3D image alignment. I've experimented with 3 open windows on a single 3D monitor to get an idea on how the 3D effects will line up. The 1st thing I noticed was the 2D white window border lines jumping out at me, but monitor bezels might actually help in this case when using 3 actual monitors. I was unable to get a lined up image well enough to feel good about it, but again, bezels may fix this.

I also experimented all weekend using a 3D projector and 3D Vision with and without TrackIR. I actually had better results this time around with the TrackIR. I adjusted the speed settings and killed every axis except pitch and yaw which really helped. I'm ordering some of the reflective dots in an attempt to mount them somehow to the 3D glasses as I don't always wear a baseball cap or headphones when flying the virtual skies. :idea: As much as I'd love to use 3 projectors in 3D, the cost and questions of undocked window compatibility make me think the TrackIR on a single display is a great solution. 3D was great without the TrackIR as well, and I'll probably only enable TrackIR for takeoffs and landings.

Just a side note...
I moved my projection screen around and tried to find the best position for it when using 3D. I tried it about 5 feet out in front of me, as well as hanging it just about my instrument panel. I finally moved it directly behind my instrument panel (actually touching the back of it and resting about 18 inches below it). In this position, I was able to adjust the convergence settings (F5 and F6) to make the instrument panel of the virtual cockpit "blend in" with my actual panel. I was using the F-18 and adjusted my eyepoint to only allow me to see the HUD of the virtual cockpit which gave the appearance of it resting on top of my actual instrument panel! It was really a remarkable effect merging me and my pit into the flight simulator world! :razz: I then lowered my actual canopy to "meet" the virtual windscreen and I would go as far as to say that it's the closest I've felt so far to the "suspension of disbelief" and before this, I was using 3 projectors for a 180+ degree FOV...only in 2D. So to finally answer the question of this post. YES, 3D is un-freaking believeable when properly set up. :-D

OK so now I'm sold on the 3D thing, but I am going one large TV only with a smaller 19" square lcd for instruments only. Can I do a 120hz main screen and 1 60hz small screen for instruments? If not then what will I need? Any suggestions for hardware appreciated too as I returned the system I had.

[Airhogg]

Can I do a 120hz main screen and 1 60hz small screen for instruments? If not then what will I need? Any suggestions for hardware appreciated too as I returned the system I had.

You definitely can mix and match monitors with different refresh rates, but I haven't been able to use an additional monitor while running 3D on another one. However, the 3D vision surround drivers that are supposed to be released soon may allow it. We'll have to wait and see unless someone else has read something about it. The other way around it would be to use a networked PC for your instruments and some 3rd party software like Project Magenta. This is the route I've gone and am impressed with how well it works. I did it mainly for better performance. The frame rate tends to drop off when dragging another window of any kind over to another monitor on your primary flight sim system, so networked PC's are a highly used method. You also don't need a monster system for your instrument panel. I'm using an older system that was basically collecting dust otherwise. One downfall of a non-3D monitor is that the image of the non-3D monitor through the LCD shutter glasses gives a similar effect as looking at an LCD screen through polarized sunglasses. It's not a game ending result, but it's just something to get used to. Luckily, my monitor is low enough that I can manage to look "under" the glasses to see the instruments and through the glasses for the outside 3D view. :idea: Using a CRT for instruments may do the trick though! (I'll have to try that). Anyway, your large 3D tv idea should have a great result! ;)

[IanH1960]

Hi Airhogg,

Great thread...

Can you describe how the 3D shutter glasses affect the appearance of the physical cockpit?

Ian

[Airhogg]

Can you describe how the 3D shutter glasses affect the appearance of the physical cockpit?

Ian

Hi Ian!

The only 2 negative effects through the shutter glasses that I have noticed are:
1. Everything is slightly tinted....very much like weak sunglasses. Although this is a negative, it's not bad by any means.
2. Viewing non-3D LCD's (glass cockpits or whatever) may appear with a little color distortion. To me it's still worth the 3D effect, but there may be a screen filter or something available that I'm unaware of that could remedy this.
The remainder of the cockpit is fine (just tinted), but the fact that the glasses are now refreshing at 60hz per eye, there is no noticible flicker as there was before with the lower refresh rate systems. I'm using the Nvidia 3D Vision setup and the glasses have much wider lenses....very much like wearing sunglasses and 1 of my sessions was about 2 hours long. I had no eye fatigue or discomfort, but I'm sure that will vary from user to user.

It really gives a great sense of immersion and IMO is worth trying. I hope this helps!

[MBlazerGuy]

This is an interesting thread.

I just purchased the 3D Vision Shutter glasses myself, and after a few days of messing around with other games, started up the old FSX to see how it would look.

I downgraded my main monitor from a 24 inch 1920x1200 to a 22 inch 1680x1050 to get the 120hz. But the 24 inch still makes a good 2nd screen for realistate.

Eventually, I would love to upgrade my 285 GTX for two GTX 480's in SLI (when they're available), and then expand to using 3 screens.

I flew for a bit in the F-18, and the 3D was amazing! Although, I found that I do get the error message on the 2nd monitor about running out of memory, and that stereo is turned off, but it still works fine for dragging out the ATC messaging, and GPS.

The one problem I did notice, is the same problem that is mentioned on the screen when the game starts up, about the glowing objects not looking correct. Boy, they sure are right about that! And unfortunately, the glowing objects show up next to the runways that you are trying to land at. It's very distracting, almost like the polarity on the glow is reversed, so the glow appears closer, instead of in the correct position.

Maybe I'm speaking too soon and haven't checked for an update to this problem yet. Does anyone else get this problem with the glow being so overwhelming that it distracts from being able to make an accurate approach? Or is it just me? Is there a solution?

[Airhogg]

There's not yet a fix that I'm aware of on the 3D objects placement. The only "remedy" I've been able to use is to rename the "halo.bmp" file to something like "halo backup.bmp". This file is for airport lighting that is only rendered in 2D. If you rename that file, the airport lights (runway, taxi, beacon...etc.) will not display at all. This is a pretty rough fix, but it makes it playable in 3D at night. My guess is that someone that's programming saavy will fix this since 3D is becoming more and more popular. It's really the only 3D downside I've found in FSX. I purchased the VRS Hornet add-on and the light from the fire in the missles are also in 2D, but the smoke appears to be correct. It's just a matter of time.