2d panning with track ir

[abxnightpilot]

I have a four monitor setup using two Nvidia 8800gt's. Three of the four monitors are outside views while the fourth is the cockpit. I have been able to tweak the panel.cfg to get the 2d visuals on the three monitors lined up perfectly. Is there a way to pan all three monitors together in the 2d mode with a Trackir 5? I have given up on the 3d VC mode because I can't get a continuous picture without investing in a TH2GO.

Thanks

[wledzian]

Are you using FS9 or FSX?

If FSX, I may be able to help you set up your views to align properly with the VC.

[abxnightpilot]

wledzian
I have tried to set up the VC views several times. The problem is that if you look up or down the cockpit is not continuous. If I pitch up the horizon seems to bend like a smile. If I pitch down the horizon frowns. The horizon and continuity of the cockpit gets worse the farther I get from the starting point. The 2D visuals are perfect however but I don't know how to pan with Trackir. If you have had sucess with getting the 3D visuals on all three monitors to line up please tell me how you did it. I think without a TH2GO (5040 x 1080) I will have to figure out how to pan the 2D views. I saw a post how to do it but it didn't work for me. Thanks

[wledzian]

The smiling/frowning of the horizon is perfectly normal when you're using auxiliary windows to increase your field of view. Take a look at my screenshot with a full 360° view:

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/showthread.php/20216-Borders-on-windows-window-alignment-tool?highlight=

The outside views were all generated as virtual cockpit, but with the internal model commented out of the model.cfg file. The 2-d panel is just part of one more view set up with the outside window very small and placed under the rest.

Notice that the horizon is most definitely NOT a straight line. With the plane in a level turn, the horizon directly in front and behind the plane (center and edges) is centered, while the horizon off the left wing is low and off the right wing is high. This is exactly as you'd expect in real life.

If I had that 360° view projected onto a full 360° display, the horizon would look right all the way around. Compressed into about 20° true field of vision, it looks really weird.
If your windows are set up to properly reflect the position and FOV of your monitors, the smiling/frowning will look correct.

I can help you, but I need some information. I'm assuming that you have three of the screens set up in an arc in front of you, so that each screen is pointing right at you:

http://publish.comcast.net/dpath/jvT50coCNoLZ_80NmPc01wxFTyj88x8WJtnUXFUa7WW6BzlLHfAhN8nGSlaZ_NXYtiNKJkpqloUzvwmSxnAqKmeycPgXUkbp-7bcDJXWwN4/

Take the three measurements indicated. Advertised size is not enough; use the actual dimensions.
Do the following calculations (or I can do them for you):

Field of View per screen:
FoV = 2 * arctan( W_screen / ( 2 * D_eyepoint ))

Yaw angle of side screens:
Yaw = 2 * arctan( W_monitor / ( 2 * D_eyepoint ))

Zoom level to get the proper FoV as calculated above:
** VERY IMPORTANT! **
Wideviewaspect=true MUST be enabled in the FSX.cfg file located in C:\Documents and Settings\Application Data\(Your Windows User Name)\Microsoft\FSX. (Location for XP. may be different for Vista or Win7)

Zoom = 34 / FoV

Once you have those values, start up FSX and create your default flight. Switch to the VC view and create three new windows, also with VC view. Save this flight and exit FSX.
Find the .flt file (I don't have FSX in front of me, but it's somewhere in your Documents and Settings folder (for XP).

Within the .flt file, there should be a [Window.X] section and lots of [Camera.X.Y] sections for each of the four windows.

[Window.1] is the forward view. make sure Maximized=True. Leave the rest of it alone.
Find the [Camera.1.Y] section where the GUID matches the CurrentCamera value in the [Window.1] section.
Set the Zoom value to what you calculated. Make sure Rotation=0, 0, 0.

[Window.2] is the left view. Make sure Maximized=False. We'll worry about that later. Leave the rest alone.
As with Window.1, find the matching [Camera.2.Y] section.
Set the zoom value to what you calculated. Set Rotation=0, -Yaw, 0 (where Yaw is the angle you calculated. Negative angles look left, positive looks right.)

[Window.3] is the right view. Do as you did for [Window.2], but use a positive yaw value.

[Window.4] is the forward-down view. I'm assuming this is below the forward view monitor. Set this as you did for [Window.1], but set Rotation=Pitch, 0, 0 (where Pitch is the downward angle. I think positive is up and negative is down, but I haven't tried it. To get the pitch value, perform the same calculation you did for the yaw angle, but use the monitor height instead of width.

Once those values are set, save the .flt file and open the flight in FSX. You should have the forward view maximized, with the other three views properly zoomed. Now, it's time to place them.

Drag each window onto the proper screen and drag it to maximum size.

Now, save the flight.
(you may need to drag and resize each time you start the flight - I haven't found a way around that yet.)


Good luck, let me know how it goes.


Edit: For the pitch setting, positive is down, negative is up.

[abxnightpilot]

Wledzian: Thanks!!
I Haven't used Trig in about 15 years so I was hoping you could verify my answers.

W_screen = 17.1875
W_monitor = 18.625
D = 30

I got:
fov=0.557974833611776
yaw=0.601971521731606
zoom=60.9346478584306

I think I did something wrong because I'd expect zoom to be about 1.

The link you posted took me to another thread that you had replied to. There was a picture at the bottom of the post. Was that the picture you wanted me to see? Thanks

[wledzian]

You did the calcs in radians, but FSX works in degrees. Otherwise, those numbers are correct.
So you don't have to re-do them, here are the converted values:
fov = 31.9696
yaw = 34.4909
zoom = 0.94028

Clarification:
[Window.4] should have Maximized=False just like [Window.2] and [Window.3]
If you want to turn off the momentum effect, add the line "Momentumeffect=No" to each relevant [Camera.X.Y] section.

With these values, you may notice that the images do not line up perfectly (a feature moving from one screen to the next will disappear for a bit). This is intentional, in order to compensate for the monitor bezel.

The linked thread was started by me, to show off the capability of a really wide view approximating a real cylindrical projection, with hopes that someone would know how to deactivate the 1-pixel border around every window. I wanted you to see what the horizon looks like at all angles around the plane, to show that the smiling / frowning effect is normal.

[abxnightpilot]

wledzian:

Hi. Ive been spending hours on this and I'm no closer to a continuous view than when I started. I re-measured and that was all correct. I think the zoom should be 34/31.9696 = 1.0635. My monitors are set up a little different than yours. My
[Window.1] is the instrument panel.
[Window.2] is the left window.
[Window.3] is the center window
[Window.4] is the right window ___________
[ 2 | 3 | 4 ]
----------------
[1]

I changed the FSX.cfg as follows: Wideviewaspect=true

My .flt file is as follows:

[Window.2]
Order=0
Active=False
Undocked=True
Maximized=False
ScreenUniCoords=128, 96, 8158, 6212
UndocCoords=-1678, -1049, 1673, 1048
CurrentCamera={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}

[Camera.2.2]
Guid={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}
Zoom=1.0635
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, -34.4909, 0
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
[Window.3]
Order=1
Active=False
Undocked=True
Maximized=True
ScreenUniCoords=256, 192, 8172, 6206
UndocCoords=4, -1048, 1676, 1047
CurrentCamera={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}

[Camera.3.2]
Guid={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}
Zoom=1.0635
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 0, 0
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
[Window.4]
Order=2
Active=True
Undocked=True
Maximized=False
ScreenUniCoords=1314, 619, 8182, 6218
UndocCoords=1682, -1048, 1678, 1049
CurrentCamera={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}

[Camera.4.2]
Guid={C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}
Zoom=1.0635
Translation=0, 0, 0
Rotation=0, 34.4909, 0
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Can you see anything wrong? My #3 window is too low and the #2 and #4 windows needs to be angled inward.

Thanks again for your time and patients. Rich

[wledzian]

I don't see anything wrong; I'll play with it when I get home, around 8:00 tonight.

[abxnightpilot]

Thanks Wledzian:
While messing around I changed the FSX.cfg back to Wideviewaspect=False and the Horizon looks great. The VC however is Horrible.

[wledzian]

Can you be a little more descriptive about "horrible"?

Ah yes, my mistake.
For Wideviewaspect=false, the horizontal FOV is held constant and the vertical FOV is derived from the aspect ratio of the window. For wideviewaspect = true, the vertical FOV is held constant, and the horizontal FOV is derived. I remember running into that too, they've got it backwards where I found the formula, but I forgot that yesterday.

Another thing I noticed about the VC views when VIEW LINK ALL is active is that the views are only aligned when Pitch=0. If you pitch up or down, they all pitch together, but maintain their yaw and roll. At the extreme end (looking straight down, for example), you'll have all three views centered on the spot directly below you, but rotated with respect to each other. I hadn't noticed this before last night, as I don't typically pan around.

Is this the "horrible" you describe?

[abxnightpilot]

wledzian
Yes that is the horrible I was describing. Is there any way to correct that? if not, how can I remove it? Thanks again for all your time and help. By the way here is a program you might find useful. It eliminates dragging the views after you load a flight. You mentioned in your first post that you "haven't found a way around that yet."

http://www.casawave.fr/upload/fsx/Panel_Position.zip

- Unzip it in a folder
- Open Fsx in windowed mode
- Open the panels you need, undocked them, and place/resize them the way you want.
- Launch "Panel Store.exe" and wait a few (2 to 5 secondes)

Move, resize the panels or load/create a flight.

- Open the panels you need (undocked)
- Launch "Panel Restore.exe"

The size and the positions of your panels will be recalled.

More details :
When you execute "Panel Store.exe", it scans all the open windows, keep only the panels, and store their name, size and position in a .ini file. The .ini file name should be the aircraft name but I noticed it could be different with some addons.

When you execute "Panel Restore.exe", it search the aircraft name, scan for the .ini file that match and move/resize the panels if they are opened and undocked (otherwise the software can't do anything).

When you launch "Panel Store.exe", and if a corresponding .ini file is already created, it will delete it and create a new one.

Tips :
Create a shortcut for the two .exe, and assign a free keyboard shortcut.
For example : Ctrl+Alt+F11 to save and Ctrl+Alt+F12 to restore.

[wledzian]

I don't know of a way to keep the views from doing that, it's just a consequense of the order that the rotations are performed. I seem to remember seeing a plugin that would keep the windows aligned for use with WidevieW, but I can't find it anywhere.

I don't have TrackIR, but a partial imperfect workaround may be to configure it to function only in yaw and position, but not in pitch or roll.

[abxnightpilot]

wledzian
Is there a way to remove the VC from the 3D view? I would like the my top three screens to be three aircraft windows. Your method for lining up the 3D horizons worked perfect but I'd like to get rid of the cockpit. I was able to remove the 2D cockpit but I can't pan in 2D. Thanks.

[wledzian]

You could comment out the interior model line in the model.cfg file for your selected aircraft, but then you'll have no panel in your bottom screen.

If you'd be happy with the 2-d panel on the bottom screen, just set that window to the 2-d cockpit, shrink the associated outside view (I'd also suggest zooming all the way in to minimize the polygon load from that window) and hide it behind the 2-d panel. That's what I did in the 360° view screenshot.

[abxnightpilot]

wledzian

Thanks again for all your help.