Cessna 172 Replica Production

[cjellwood]

Hi all,

Some may be interested in the methods and parts used in my Cessna project so over the next few week I will post lots of pictures, videos and info about it here as it happens. The interesting thing about this project is that I am attempting to have most of the parts manufacturable so if anyone see something they like then gimme a shout.

Chris @ Essex UK

[cjellwood]

Starting with the largest most expensive part, the glareshield mould as shown below took a couple of weeks to form by the pro's at my local ABS vacuum forming company. The reason for producing a custom glareshield is due to the current availability being too expensive and low quality. A few modifications were made to the traditional design to add strength and style which has worked in my opinion. It is very rigid and is very nice to look at :)

This is the tool made from some kind of resin (hand made!)
http://www.leons-world.com/img/glare_tool.jpg

And here is the first ABS form to arrive from the vacuum forming machine today. Not a very good pic sorry and has a foam panel inserted for perspective.
http://www.leons-world.com/img/glareshield_small.jpg

Chris

[fsaviator]

Nice... is it cost effective?

[cjellwood]

Edit:

This glareshield is now available from www.FlightIllusion.com . There does not seem to be much talk about their products in this forum so I will use this thread to evaluate and report on their gauges etc as they arrive. Half of my cockpit is made up of www.homesim.de products too solots to report on here.

Chris

[cjellwood]

Some more pics now it has been trimmed http://www.leons-world.com/glareshield/

Chris

[cjellwood]

Now onto what is probably the most difficult part of the project whic is the control knobs.

First they are designed in Pro Engineer and the assembly is checked for correct mating etc.

http://www.leons-world.com/img/knobs_and_blocks.jpg

http://www.leons-world.com/img/assembly.jpg

The first port of call is to have each part machined in aluminium then anodised which will be very satisfying but predictably expensive! This will be done over the next couple of weeks so will post at each stage.

There was only pictures to go on when modelling these parts and my modelling skills are not much so fingers crossed.

Chris

[No Longer Active]

Alternatively, you can just buy one of these panels when they come out, My guess is they will sell around the £100 mark:

http://www.saitek.com/uk/imgs/product/tpm_product.png

You also have nine toggles which you can take out of the casing and use somewhere else, Ie. Switch panel!

[cjellwood]

I wondered how long it would be before Saitek brought out something like that for the Cessna, but I hope they re-arrange the mix and prop knob because isn't the red knob supposed to be in the centre?

[No Longer Active]

Yes you are correct, it goes, black, red then blue, mainly larger GA aircraft such as the Cessna 182 would need prop pitch. I must admit, regarding the sequence 'yes' they have got it wrong'...but what's to stop you unscrewing the knobs and swapping them round, maybe this is a feature. They have totally killed the design by adding 9 toggles in such an odd looking grid, but they have certainly got the vernier controls right, although the actual black throttle knob looks a bit odd, the white raised label on the black knob should be inverted as to what it is, but altogether it looks 'very' Cessna and I'm liking the product overall!

[smendlik]

Did Cessna change something? I'm looking at a poster of a 182 interior and it's black, blue, red (left to right). Here's a link to Cessna's web page showing the same sequence

http://www.cessna.com/MungoBlobs/287/180/sin_lane_int01_2010_view.jpg

[No Longer Active]

I think your right smedlik:

http://alexpilot.50g.com/screeny.jpg

My first ever sim was this way too:

http://alexpilot.50g.com/1firstproject.jpg

[AK Mongo]

Saitek is correct, although it seems strange.

I am not sure why you are reinventing the wheel, unless you really just want the challenge. I got real ones from ebay for about $60.00 that were easily interfaced with slide pots. The real ones have appropriate friction locks, handles and verniers for fine tuning of mixture and prop.
http://www.cessna.com/MungoBlobs/287/180/sin_lane_int01_2010_view.jpg
http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac52/akmongo/731057be.jpg

Not belittling your design skills, as I really admire people who can do the CAD process well! I just found a different solution to the same problem.

[cjellwood]

Hmm, it seems the knob order is dependant on preference as it changes from plane to plane regardless of being the same model or not. I do not even know why I am modelling the blue prop knob because it is not a feature in my cockpit anyway?

Yes I reinvent the wheel 10 times a day but there is nothing better to do because I have MS and am stuck to a seat for at least 4 hours a day with nothing better to do. It is definately a challenge no doubt about that! The design process is easy but actually getting local engineers to work on these parts is another matter which is not so easy unless you are already in the engineering game or have your own workshop. I clearly understand why people go to China for work to be done now given my experiences the past year in the UK. There is absolutely no suport for any entrepreneurialism (<-- spell that!) or small business in this country so the challenge of producing quality parts on a budget is definately there.

But on a lighter note, Pro Engineer does not charge me by the hour and is giving me hours of pleasure :) Here is an assembly I produced this morning for the knobs and friction blocks to check everything is cool before submitting the files to the mill.

http://www.leons-world.com/img/control_assembly-sm.jpg

While goofing around with the matte/reflection I found that the knobs can look like they are resin moulded. That is a possibility for crazy looking knobs and the candy apple look is definately a good look! But before concerning about details like that I need to mate up these parts to a custom made PCB that holds the slider switches behind the cockpit. Not going to be easy :(

http://www.leons-world.com/img/resin-look-sm.jpg

Chris

[AK Mongo]

You don't need a pcb if you want to skip it. you can just ,mount a slide pot to a bracket and wire it directly to your interface solution of choice.

Your design skills are outstanding though!

[cjellwood]

for the control sliders I have reinvented the wheel again and made a slider PCB but with added functions and connections to make it economical for space and tidyness. On one side is the slider positions then on the other side there is a multitude of inputs and outputs to connect various other switches and pots to an FSUIPC interface app directly. It is very clever and works with the RS485 interface so it can connect to slave devices and send their data to FSUIPC interface too without problems.

But my favourite part is the mosfet controlled hour meter terminal. Any FSUIPC offset can turn the 12v supply on and get the meter running. I like the simple things :)
Interfacing directly to FSUIPC with dedicated terminals makes things much more tidy and less fiddling around before flight getting things set up etc.
Unfortunately none of us can get away with the need to boot hundreds of drivers for all the various gizmos on the cockpit whichever method is performed. Maybe one day we will have a standard protocol for all gizmos so just one driver/app required to drive them all.

This will be assembled in a few weeks, 10 available in the first batch.

http://www.leons-world.com/img/RS485-sm.jpg

http://www.leons-world.com/img/RS485_2-sm.jpg

Chris

[Leo Bodnar]

...There is absolutely no suport for any entrepreneurialism (<-- spell that!) or small business in this country...
Wow! This is definitely an overreaction.

[cjellwood]

Wow! This is definitely an overreaction.

I have had some terrible upsetting experiences working with UK manufacturers past and present. (could just be me though lol)

btw, does anyone know what 'Finis santificat media' means?

Chris

[AK Mongo]

I have had some terrible upsetting experiences working with UK manufacturers past and present. (could just be me though lol)

btw, does anyone know what 'Finis santificat media' means?

Chris

"The end justifies the means"

It is indeed a different way of looking at the problem...

[cjellwood]

"The end justifies the means"

It is indeed a different way of looking at the problem...

Thanks! Someone emailed that quote to me when I was looking for some hard to find PCB components lol. There are plenty of 'means' around at the moment so it looks like I just need some 'ends' :)

Chris

[cjellwood]

A small animation to show how the PCB attaches to the cockpit via a bracket. Blue knob is in the middle now for the purists


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg2qMhKRruY

Chris

[AK Mongo]

Are you going to have the vernier functions and locks on the prop and mixture? Very cool animation!

[cjellwood]

Are you going to have the vernier functions and locks on the prop and mixture? Very cool animation!

no fancy functions unfortunately, just an O ring stretched around each rod to make friction for a realistic feel.

Chris

[jsfboat]

The airplane that I instruct in has a vernier throttle, which is the first airplane that I've seen that has one.

[cjellwood]

In this video, watch from 1:27 where the guy has both a lock and vernier function on the controls

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WBBHHKuk1IU?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WBBHHKuk1IU?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

At times like this I debate on whether such functions are required in a simulator. A mixture knob control system that has vernier function costs around $120 from Spruce which is good value but at what point does one draw the line between building a simulator as opposed to a real aircraft? The engineering cost for a basic knob with no special function is £30 so a complete set of knobs including electronics and rack will be around £150 (simulator - no special function). Use real knobs and the cost goes to £250+ before you have even thought about connecting it to the PCB and mounting it.

Looking at the features from an engineering perspective it would probably be easier to implement both lock and turn rather than just having turn. I will play with some ideas today to see what is possible.

Chris

[No Longer Active]

I personally, will not invest in the turn and lock feature, I am saving alot of cost and headache by not having this feature. If I was building a cockpit that was specifically for flight instruction, flight school or practicing for my ppl then I would definitely have the function. As my sim is a fun VFR Flyer with the odd bit of IFR equipment, the actual function of my sim does not require the precision of precise tuning where as flight sim simulates the lock and turn function by just providing a push and pull lever which is more than adaquate for my sim's needs. Its my cockpit, and I am totally happy with not having fine tuning on the mix knob, its something that I rarely touch and not worth the added expense where as the money could be spent on other parts!

Alex

[Leo Bodnar]

Can you place a coaxial encoder on each shaft for precise trimming?

I don't understand why Cessna decided to use Vernier friction nuts in the first place.
Other planes somehow manage to fly without them.

[cjellwood]

I personally, will not invest in the turn and lock feature, I am saving alot of cost and headache by not having this feature. If I was building a cockpit that was specifically for flight instruction, flight school or practicing for my ppl then I would definitely have the function. As my sim is a fun VFR Flyer with the odd bit of IFR equipment, the actual function of my sim does not require the precision of precise tuning where as flight sim simulates the lock and turn function by just providing a push and pull lever which is more than adaquate for my sim's needs. Its my cockpit, and I am totally happy with not having fine tuning on the mix knob, its something that I rarely touch and not worth the added expense where as the money could be spent on other parts!

Alex

There is definately no middle ground on this issue, the controls either need to be as complex as the original or completely basic. There is also the issue of FSX even responding correctly to minor screw adjustments as it would in a real plane? For teaching purposes a control system with screw function could be dangerously misleading if a student makes adjustements in a real plane according to how it reacted in FSX when turned. Given the sensitivity of the average potentiometer it would probably be a case of [7 turns in FSX = 2 turns in real cockpit] or like effect (if you know what I mean :).

But no harm with the lock function if that can be implemented easily.

Chris

[cjellwood]

Can you place a coaxial encoder on each shaft for precise trimming?

I don't understand why Cessna decided to use Vernier friction nuts in the first place.
Other planes somehow manage to fly without them.

Sensing the turn electrically did cross my mind but there is still the problem of mechanically following the adjustment that has been made.

The vernier turn mechanism seems to be popular in marine engine control too so maybe there is the possibility of buying the screw/lock mechanics off the shelf and modifying them to fit the machined Cessna knobs. All depends on price really but there is hope because the Chinese are on it.
http://www.marscable.com.tw/images/Vernier%20Head.jpg

Chris

[cjellwood]

Things have taken a rather bizarre turn since the vernier issue was raised. Obtaining vernier controls like the one pictured below is not a problem, they cost as little as £5 each from China and can have the knobs replaced with the Cessna type quite easily. The manufacturers of these verniers are also happy to modify them to have 100mm of protruding rod at the end rather than just having a hook for the cable which helps with linking to a sensor. But while going through all that trouble to adapt the vernier i wondered if it would be possible to get away from the slide potentiometer setup which I believe is a wee bit crude considering the effor that is going into other areas. Maybe there is another option?

Well it seems there is another option but it is not an easy one. If this pulls off then there will be a sensor available that will help everyone in every area of sim building, not just throttle controls. No doubt this will be controversial, allow me to explain....

There seems to be a big whole in the market where linear position displacement sensing is concerned. On one end of the market is the slide pots that are pence each and on the other end is the industrial linear sensors that are £150 each at least (below).

http://www.potentiometers.com/images/lt.gif

How perfect are those for everyday sensing of lever positions in cockpits, especially throttle quadrants! But the price makes me heave :(

The solution seems to be Optical Sensors, like the type your mouse probably uses to detect movement. It sounded like a bad idea at first but then I discovered that a steel rod was detectable over the scanning surface and was picked up perfectly. The surface of the rod is ideal due to its reflectivness and all the abrasions that are common with this material. The resolution is amazing too!

http://www.leons-world.com/img/mouse_rod.jpg

The components require to form an optical sensing circuit are simple and cheap. £1 a pop! The output from the PIC can be a voltage of between 0-5v (PWM) depending on the sensor output so acting like a potentiometer and the PIC can be programmed to output that voltage for any distance required! because it senses both x and y axis motion of a rod then it would be great for sterring yokes too. Perfect?

http://www.leons-world.com/img/ADNS-2610Circuit.jpg

So the idea is to create an Optical Position Displacement Potentiometer Module, a bit like this....

(Picture will be here when I make the drawing later)

Of course there is issues such as the position being relative, not absolute. But that is just a matter of having all controls in their default position when the electronics are booted.

Watch this space :)

Chris

[wannabeaflyer]

Hi Guys correct me if i got this wrong but have you guys just decribe a way to use cheap optical mouses for linear displacement measurement ?? i ask becuase whilst building my motion platform one of the issue i can across was finding good Cheap position sensors which did not really on Rotary potentiomers -- having read this thread i like the concept and can see it having applications for diy project all over the place -- so in a nutshell i need a pic Micro - the internals of a optical mouse and some reflectable medium ( steel rod ) and a little mechanical savvy :-) and a means of starting my platform at a known defualt position

[cjellwood]

well it is only a theory at this moment but I cant see why there should be any problems with it. I avoid mechanical engineering wherever possible so welcome the thought of simple rods and sensors like this. Here is a pic of how simple it should be i.e. a small box that contains the optical circuit and the rod being feed through the guide so it moves over the sensor camera.

http://www.leons-world.com/img/optical_pot_eng.gif
http://www.leons-world.com/img/optical_pot_eng2.gif

Any size rod or tube can be used but in this case it is a handy 6.35mm rod (1/4"). Quite a catchy name too, "Optical Pot"

Chris

[No Longer Active]

The idea that you have described chris is exactly what I had thought of long ago, but not for a throttle, but for a flight yoke!

This would be perfect technology for a flight yoke!

[cjellwood]

Same here, an old thought for the yoke and the idea cropped up again for the throttles levers. Both x and y axis are detected by the optic so pretty much perfect for everything.

Imagine this... there is a button on the side of the opti-pot which you press. While it is pressed you push the rod through the range of movement you are measuring (both axis) and it records those parameters in the PIC's EEPROM. Now the opti-pot is configured to measure your exact distance range and output voltage accordingly. That would be complicated for when bi-direction is required such as with a yoke but definately possible.

Chris

[cjellwood]

The interface PCB is 99% complete, just missing a couple of optocoouplers.

http://www.leons-world.com/img/RS-485_small.gif

Chris

[AK Mongo]

There is also the issue of FSX even responding correctly to minor screw adjustments as it would in a real plane? For teaching purposes a control system with screw function could be dangerously misleading if a student makes adjustements in a real plane according to how it reacted in FSX when turned. Given the sensitivity of the average potentiometer it would probably be a case of [7 turns in FSX = 2 turns in real cockpit] or like effect (if you know what I mean :).


My setup works exactly like the real thing. Twisting on the verniers moves the prop and mixture handles in small increments, and translate into smaller movements on the linear pots. I am using 100mm slide pots, and there is slightly less movement than that in the handles, so I am "wasting" a few mm of the pots capacity. So far, the engine controls are the thing I am most happy with in my "pit", and the realism of pushing in the lock for gross adjustment, or twisting for finer has been a happy surprise.

[cjellwood]

Thanks for that info, the travel distance in general is something I am concerned about at the moment. Are you using original Cessna knobs? It would be great to know the travel distance for the original Cessna throttle, mix and prop knobs; something I forgot to measure when I had time inside a cockpit. The simkits controls look like they are using 60mm pots but that seems a little bit short.

The plan at this end is to reduce the controls cost by modifying cheap vernier controls that are available from China such as this one...

http://www.leons-world.com/img/vernier_taiwan.gif

The stroke/travel available for these controls is 80mm but the 'control end' that connects to this and has the steel rod for connecting is available in 50, 75 and 100mm range. That means if I connect this to a 60mm pot then the 75mm range end will be required and will only travel 60mm due to the restriction of the pot travel. 100mm seems a bit too long but if the optical pot happens then the full 75mm travel can be used. Here is a pic of the Chinese vernier assembly that includes the control end which has a solid rod rather than cable which is handy. The length of the rod can be made longer but keeping the same travel distance.

http://www.leons-world.com/img/control_assembly2.gif

oh and I took a gamble on ebay by purchasing a cheap £2 mouse in the hope that it contained the traditional optical sensors for hacking. It is not the exact chip I required because this has a single chip solution for data/usb but I think data can still be accessed via a couple of pins listed as
Pin Description
4 DM/DATA I/O USB D- / PS2 DATA
5 DP/CLK I/O USB D+ / PS2 CLK

http://www.leons-world.com/img/SP_A2045.jpg

Is there any such software that can read and display PS2 data?

Chris

[AK Mongo]

I can't remember exactly, but can get underneath the hood and measure if you need. All 3 were more than 80 mm but less than 100 in total travel.

Reid

[cjellwood]

I can't remember exactly, but can get underneath the hood and measure if you need. All 3 were more than 80 mm but less than 100 in total travel.

Reid

That would be great if you could do a measurement. The vernier control end is restricted to 75mm but it can be modified if needed.

Chris

[No Longer Active]

Does this help:

http://alexpilot.50g.com/abe.jpg

[cjellwood]

Does this help:

Superb! Thank You! It looks like the travel of the rod is around 80mm when the knob and nut is deducted, so the 75mm Chinese vernier will be fairly accurate

Chris

[AK Mongo]

That is what I would do. The exact number of mm range to me would be less important than the function for the immersion.

My handles all came from a 210, so may have different measurements anyway than what you could expect from other models. None of the three even had the same range of travel.

On a side note, when you built your glareshield, did you use the CAD file I uploaded here for the mip outside measurements? If you did, I would be interested in getting one.

[cjellwood]

It seems I missed your mip measurements otherwise would have used them in the construction. The outside measurements of the glareshield are 1070(w) x 520(h), is that within your spec?

The inside panel area is measured from Simkits and CockpitSonic glareshields in an attempt to keep some sort of 'standard' in the production, assuming that those measurements represent a genuine panel area in a 172 which they seem to do within 3mm or so. The outside was a bit tricky because there are certain things that cant be done in vacuum forming, but mainly it was crafted by giving the designer lots of pictures of a genuine Cessna cockpit and asking him to do his best (which he did!).

I dont want to offend other producers of 172 glareshields but they did not put much effort into strengthening their design or applying much skill to reproduce the shape/curves. Simkits have still banned me from their forum so who cares if they are offended lol

Chris

[No Longer Active]

Simkits have still banned me from their forum so who cares if they are offended lol Still banned? Crazy!

It's not as if you are a threat or anything to them, Chris you are a perfectionist hobbyist and they are an overpriced business!

Chris, carry on what you are doing because you are doing wonders for the Cessna sim hobby!

[cjellwood]

thanks Alex, it has cheered me up reading that :)

Today I bought a OCZ RevoDrive in the hope it would supercharge FSX, but it only gave minor improvements over the SSD setup I had before. Kind of p'eed off because it was lots of £££ and my other half is naggin me about it lol

I have ordered those vernier throttles from China so should have something to play with in a week or so when they arrive.

Chris

[jackwall]

Chris,

this thread is a great resource to spur the innovation and home build DIY activity. Thanks for sharing the experience. I genuniely do not intend to bandwagon here but I have to fully agree with post #43.

Many thanks for the inspiration Chris.

jack

[cjellwood]

The standard vernier controls arrived from Taiwan last week. Here is a pic of me holding both ends

http://www.leons-world.com/img/vernier_comp.jpg

It already has an advantage over the original Cessna control because it has a solid rod at the linking end rather than just a cable protruding. The in/out travel of that rod is 75mm. Going back to the control end (not knob end), this is what it looks like when the plastic knob assembly is removed (with a hammer)

http://www.leons-world.com/img/control_knob.gif

The plastic knob was attached to the metal tube by a process known as 'necking'. Unfortunately I cant use that process when attaching a Cessna knob so it looks like a grub screw setup will be holding that piece together later. The biggest problem is where the push button is concerned. The rod that is pushed to remove the lock is a seperate piece that falls out of the assembly i.e. not fixed. That means I need to find a way of installing the push button inside the Cessna knob so that it does not fall out, maybe the Cessna knob will need to be made in two pieces? Or apply some more grub screw magic to stop it coming out of the knob assembly?

Chris

[wojteku]

Hi,

Where did you byu these vernier controls? and how much were they?

thanks

[AK Mongo]

Chris,

The original cables do terminate in a solid rod. I can't see how you would make the knobs in one piece and have the lock function. In the real thing, the lock is a push button loaded with a heavy spring, probably much as the one you are using is. If you can copy the function of yours, with a more realistic knob, you are there!

Reid

[cjellwood]

£12 each (including control cable and end) + £30 shipping :)

http://www.aliexpress.com:80/product-gs/245080856-Y-Series-Throttle-Control-wholesalers.html

Chris

[cjellwood]

Chris,

The original cables do terminate in a solid rod. I can't see how you would make the knobs in one piece and have the lock function. In the real thing, the lock is a push button loaded with a heavy spring, probably much as the one you are using is. If you can copy the function of yours, with a more realistic knob, you are there!

Reid

There was an error in my previous post regarding the push rod not being fixed. It turns out that it is fixed but I broke it when hammering the plastic knob off.

The push button on this vernier does not have a spring inside the knob as I think you were describing AK. The rod travels in 8-10mm to release the lock and the spring must be in the vernier section somewhere. But now I know the rod is meant to be fixed and not drop out like it does now, the seperate push button can simply screw onto the end of the push rod while the knob itself just hold to the casing with some grub screws.

Btw, I think this vernier has 14 complete turns from open to closed from what I recal before beating the knob off. Is that unlike the original?

Chris

[AK Mongo]

Just checked and the mixture is 14.25 turns.
Prop is 16.5 turns

Fourteen is pretty close, I would be happy with it.

[cjellwood]

Superb! Thanks for that info.

The supplier of this vernier have agreed to sell it with no default knob attached and 10mm of thread on the push rod. Hopefully they will sell me a single piece first for testing. They also sell a choke control that can be used for the throttle. Here is their catalogue..
http://www.leons-world.com/files/Wholewin_Catalogue.pdf

Chris

[Cessna172sim]

This is how we did it:
http://www.lentosimulaattori.1g.fi/kuvat/assorted+construction+pictures/throttle+and+controls/

[cjellwood]

thanks for the pics! Is that a complete cockpit now?

Chris

[Cessna172sim]

Yes. www.lentosimulaattori.com

[cjellwood]

This week I got a slightly customised vernier control delivered from the Taiwan suppliers so began milling parts for the control levers. This picture shows the first part to be fitted to the vernier which is the holding nut, or 'friction nut' as I like to call it.

http://www.leons-world.com/img/nut2.jpg

It was very easy to fit, it simply screws on where the original nut was positioned.

http://www.leons-world.com/img/nut1.jpg

Milling next is the red control knob and push button which I am excited about. Before that happens I need to take some measurments so that the vernier travel will be exactly 60mm, 65mm or 70mm to match the slide pot at the other end. It looks like 70mm will be the travel for the mixture knob so I need to trim the nut and knob length to meet that distance.

Chris

[cjellwood]

Hi all, sorry for the absence. Had a few dramas over xmas but settling back into the project now.

Back to work on the vernier controls now and have begun checking the 3D knob designs by blagging parts from a 3D printing company. Still a few parts to come, here is a pic of how they look on the vernier...

http://www.leons-world.com/img/vernier_RP.jpg

The central vernier is the only one which is sort of complete, the others are showing part completion or the standard vernier as it came. Rapid Prototyping has solved many issues with the vernier and highlighted errors which previously would have gone un-noticed. Just a shame it is so expensive.

Chris

[AK Mongo]

Those are great looking knobs! You certainly don't do anything half-vast.

Reid

[cjellwood]

Thanks AK! These RP parts are nearly good enough to use as final production parts but there is an issue painting them as TasKiNG (Dave Ault) found out recently when he tried painting a learjet panel I had made for him. The material is tough as nails but is porous (30% air). Paint goes on the surface then absorbes into it. No doubt 500 coats would sort it out or I may experiment with undercoats later.

Parts made in an Objet30 machine are not porous and has smooth surface but unfortunately brittle. Another 5 years and RP may be worth checking out for final production parts.

But there is nothing like having a good aluminium milled part in hand so likely to stick with that for production.

Chris

[AK Mongo]

Before you order the aluminium, you could try this on the prototype:http://www.plastidip.com/home_solutions/Plasti_Dip. If you want aluminium, go for it. The real thing is plastic though, so plastic would not be "inauthentic".

[cjellwood]

hmmm, that stuff looks handy! shame it is only sold in USA :(

So it looks like I need to plastic coat my plastic? :)

Chris

[AK Mongo]

It comes in different colors, so would solve your finishing issue. Check Local tool suppliers. It is most commonly used to add grips to metal tool handles. Maybe they have something similiar. Just a thought.

Reid

[cjellwood]

there is a product around called Plasti-Kote which is described as a super enamel paint. Might be worth grabbing a tin to see how it fairs. The plastidip stuff might go on a bit thick and end up messy which is likely where my handy work is concerned. I might get away with spraying

Chris

[Jordan Farmer]

it depends how pourous it is, but yeah, ive used plasticote on many things before now, should work fine, easiest place to pick it up is your local bodge it quick (B&Q) :p

[cjellwood]

it depends how pourous it is, but yeah, ive used plasticote on many things before now, should work fine, easiest place to pick it up is your local bodge it quick (B&Q) :p

what is plasti-kote exactly? How is it different from normal paint?

Chris

[Jordan Farmer]

well, its just a spray type of paint, and it seems to go on fairly nicely, but im thinking sany thick oil based paint could work fairly well, maybe a hobby paint?

[cjellwood]

Thanks Jordan, I can see a new thread happening on this subject :)

There is lots of bizarre stuff out there like this juice

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/EasyFlo-95-Polyurethane-Liquid-Plastic,-Casting,-1Kg_W0QQitemZ220502359008QQcmdZViewItem?rvr_id=215103287483&rvr_id=215103287483&cguid=9621885012b0a0e2043007f0ff746eef

Chris

[Matt Olieman]

@cjellwood, Thanks for the link.

If you haven't played with making molds.... watch out, you may end up with another hobby. :) :) :) Lot's of fun making casts and molds.

Matt Olieman

[No Longer Active]

I am very impressed with your throttles.

I actually think you have produced throttles that look better than the real thing. For sim use they are awsom. Many of the GA aircraft today (ie 1970's Cessna's) still have original equipment of their times and can look very worn and tatty. U have produced these lil fellas from scratch and your throttles are a real winner.

Proud to be British!

Alex

[cjellwood]

Cheers Alex, I am blushing slightly lol :)

Chris

[Jordan Farmer]

I second that Alex, they do look awesome, and i hope that you will be making some to sell on, because i want ot get my hands on these babys! :p I look forward to seeing more :D

[cjellwood]

Here is a pic of the verniers again but with the prop knob attached. A friction lock was printed for the throttle assembly but is currently going for a spin in a polishing tumbler to see if that process will smooth the parts. It will probably not make it out alive but worth experimenting.

http://www.leons-world.com/img/vernier_RP2.jpg

Chris

[Jordan Farmer]

wow! they look great, im looking forward to seeing more of this!

[RojanTrojan]

They are looking great Chris! Nice work.

Rhydian

[cjellwood]

leaving the old unpaintable parts behind, I am now having them made in a Objet30 machine which is delivering a nice smooth finnish and perfect tollerance. A 20mm hole on these new parts is coming out as 20mm on the calipers which is great compared to the old Dimension parts that were off 0.20mm off and wonky. Objet is king, let the painting begin!

http://www.leons-world.com/img/vernier_RP3.jpg

Chris

[Jordan Farmer]

Well, they look damn fine! Im glad to see that things are working, and i really really cant wait too see the final product in action! :)

[cjellwood]

oh dear, i setup a virtual dedicated server last night and it seems I have lost all the pictures that this thread links to. ouch!

Chris

[cjellwood]

recently I have teamed up with a programmer to create a browser based STL file viewer http://www.leons-world.com/stl.php (http://www.leons-world.com/stl.php).

Here are some of the Cessna parts as rendered by the facility

http://www.leons-world.com/stl.php?show=787360320306de5430a74a5f12d87142
http://www.leons-world.com/stl.php?show=aeab6f546aa8346e6107d6c658ca2523
http://www.leons-world.com/stl.php?show=36fe686c6cd89613f334804b8967c11a
http://www.leons-world.com/stl.php?show=4e15621809a3693fc5046409735b2a5a

It is a handy app if you want to show someone an stl file and they dont have a viewer. Just link to the output like I have done above

Chris

[AK Mongo]

Chris,
What is the 4th picture? Is it a bushing for passing a yoke through the MIP?

[cjellwood]

Chris,
What is the 4th picture? Is it a bushing for passing a yoke through the MIP?

yes it is a yoke mount/bush whatever its called. Completely different from the original ones, the design around the yoke holes went a bit wrong generally so I used artistic freedom to patch it up lol

Chris

[cjellwood]

Things are getting hot now so watch this space. Parts are now being moulded etc so over the next few weeks there is lots to report. To start the ball rolling again here is a pic of the cockpit ready for painting and laser etching. lets see how it comes together :)

http://fsuipc.co.uk/img/11052011002.jpg

Chris

[AK Mongo]

Looking great sir!~

Are you still using the Saitek panel for the electrical stuff?

Reid

[cjellwood]

Looking great sir!~

Are you still using the Saitek panel for the electrical stuff?

Reid

yes still using the saitek panel now but will get round to designing an insert plate to replace it soon making the saitek optional. Its kinda silly i know but will phase out the saitek thing eventually, it just made sense at the time for various reasons

Chris

[Cessna172sim]

Hi,

Great work! How have you planned to do the gauges and avionics for the panel?

[cjellwood]

Hi,

Great work! How have you planned to do the gauges and avionics for the panel?

the gauges are mostly from www.home-sim.de and Flightillusion,
com/nav radio and transponder from homesim.de,
custom AP, DME and ADF avionic being made that work with my FSUIPC breakout board,
flaps and pitch wheel assemblies are in prototype stage of development,
throttle, mix and prop are being crafted now which will cause a stir when released :)

Chris

[cjellwood]

Hi,

Great work! How have you planned to do the gauges and avionics for the panel?

the gauges are mostly from www.home-sim.de and Flightillusion,
com/nav radio and transponder from homesim.de,
custom AP, DME and ADF avionic being made that work with my FSUIPC breakout board,
flaps and pitch wheel assemblies are in prototype stage of development,
throttle, mix and prop are being crafted now which will cause a stir when released :)

Here is the cockpit mounted to the glareshield which I am producing.

http://www.fsuipc.co.uk/img/sim.jpg

Mounting the cockpit seems to be an issue, looks like the mount points will need to be at the yoke positions.

Chris

[cjellwood]

I had my first lesson in a Cessna 152 last week, sure was bumpy but a nice day flying around the Southend coast. The instructor here must have balls of iron cos sure I would be a nervous wreck letting someone like me on the yoke at 1,500ft ! After all the years of simming I took to it naturally and was only suprised that there was so much correction to be made on the yoke all the time and how much resistance on the yoke. Steering this plane is nothing like how it is with the spring loaded sim yokes so that may need addressing in this sim.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hpQ5tGoxY4

i like the 'exit' sticker on the planes window lol

Chris

[Cessna172sim]

Been also flying C152 here in Finland appr. 30hours. During the wintertime the air is thicker and more calm most of the time but during summertime the ride is almost always constant bumbing and shaking. The dynamic forces in the yoke also can be really hard if the trim is not in the right position. It's been a good reference when we have now constructed our sim. We don't have the trim/aerodynamic forces modelled either so the sim is not 100% accurate compared to real life flying.

FS Force software and MS Force Feedback 2 yoke are cost effective and pretty good way to do this modelling when using stick instead of Cessna-style yoke. But in general the real life flying is still completely different thing.

[cjellwood]

Hi all,

sorry I have not updated the progress for a while, things are getting hot again now so will be posting pics of the final vernier assembly, pitch wheel, flaps and of course the sensor solution which we were discussing a while back. I cant wait to show you all what solution has evolved from the sensor problem, it is a great idea that will help all cockpit designers, not just Cessna. For now here is a pic of the cockpit which is now being drafted in CAD because it is a complicated **** working on 10 parts at once

http://www.leons-world.com/img/172_CAD.jpg

oh and a very nice PCB is on its way that interfaces pots, switches and encoders directly to FSUIPC

http://www.leons-world.com/img/pcb.JPG

Chris

[cjellwood]

something about 'boats' just came and went on this thread?

[RojanTrojan]

Nice work Chris. out of interest, what CAD design program are you using?

Cheers

Rhydian

[cjellwood]

Nice work Chris. out of interest, what CAD design program are you using?

Cheers

Rhydian

Solidworks for the assembly, Pro-E for the individual parts. I have a copy of Rhino here which I am eager to fire up but my PC is just way overloaded with progs, the case is bulging at the sides. Here is a sneaky of the R22 being worked on now too :) (glareshield design and faceplate fitting)

http://www.leons-world.com/img/R22_st1.jpg

Chris

[RojanTrojan]

Never tried Solidworks. Looks good though. I've looked at TurboCAD as a cheap solution. I currently use QCad which is fine for basic 2d CAD work but it would be nice to move to a 3D CAD program.

Great looking R22 glareshield. Does it come with a free cat??? :)

Cheers. Keep us all posted. It's all looking very good.

Rhydian

[cjellwood]

oh yes, free mischievous cat included lol

http://www.leons-world.com/img/R22_cat.jpg

Chris

[Tom_G_2010]

Chris,

Not sure if these would be of interest, but in case they are, thought I'd let you know what I had in my collection.

I haven't had a chance to post these in the classified section or on eBay, but I have two sets of controls that I'll be selling. One has throttle prop and mixture, the other only throttle and mixture. I got a reasonable deal on three sets in the process of hunting for a single set for myself, so I'm making the others available . I haven't settled on a price for sure but I'm only looking to cover my costs.

If you or anyone else might be interested PM me. There are more pic's in my albums.

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5279&d=1307801669

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5266&d=1307800308

[cjellwood]

I have grabbed those controls shown in the previous post, there is another set available if anyone is interested. A lovely yoke arrived for me to play with this morning and proof of concept for the steering system went swimmingly!

http://www.leons-world.com/img/yoke_1.jpg
http://www.leons-world.com/img/yoke_2.jpg

Chris

[No Longer Active]

Great work, really like it, Chris where did the R22 come from, you sure do have all your fingers in the pie!

Southend Airport Train station opening next month, so looking forward to my day trips to the flying clubs, considering Im only 4 stops away in Wickford!

Top stuff guys!

BTW: If you need any vinyl decals, let me know and I will see what I can do for you!

[cjellwood]

Hi Alex, i hope all is good at your end! The R22 glareshield design was aquired from Helicopter Simulators LTD who allowed me to vacuum form their design for any future possible purpose. The R22 is interesting me more and more each day, it is such a nimble little beast! Most of the gauges and components from the Cessna will work on the R22 so I cant see any reason why an R22 sim cant be knocked up pretty soon too, but I will need to send lots of beer to the above firm first for their design.

Btw, I have found a great answer to the sensor issue we was discussing before i.e. the infra red movement and all that. I wont say too much now but get ready for a sim design revolution once I get the part manufactured :)

Chris

[No Longer Active]

Hi Chris

Coming away from the R22....

Have you had any more thought as to the glareshield enclosure for the C172? It would be nice to see an ABS box just like the R22 box but for the C172 instead.....

Alex

[cjellwood]

Hi Chris

Coming away from the R22....

Have you had any more thought as to the glareshield enclosure for the C172? It would be nice to see an ABS box just like the R22 box but for the C172 instead.....

Alex

you mean an enclosed box like the one simkits do? I am planning that but cant make any prototype until the yoke steering is worked out. This is the glareshield on its own as you have seen previously
http://www.leons-world.com/img/glare_1_proto.jpg

Chris

[cjellwood]

Here is the spec for a LED display block which I am being put under pressure to authorise this week. Next will be the ADF display but I have lost the spec. Let me know if I am missing something please because this is an expensive manufacturing run

http://www.mycockpit.org/photos/DME_proto.gif

Chris

[cjellwood]

btw, all parts will be available from www.simbits.com and co.uk very soon :)

omg i am gonna be in so much trouble soon lol

Chris

[No Longer Active]

trouble.....but good trouble :)

[cjellwood]

here is a peek of the flaps mechanism which is going into production within 4 weeks, but a working prototype is being made now. It is based on the original Cessna mechanism which uses micro switches and a bendy lever. I really dont know why simkits did not do it like this.

If you have Solidworks Edrawings viewer then here is a link to the 3D file http://www.fsuipc.co.uk/img/cessna_flap_lever_assembly_05072011.easm

http://www.fsuipc.co.uk/img/flaps_1.jpg
http://www.fsuipc.co.uk/img/flaps_2.jpg
http://www.fsuipc.co.uk/img/flaps_3.jpg
http://www.fsuipc.co.uk/img/flaps_4.jpg

Chris

[cjellwood]

Here is something that may be of help to Cessna cockpit builders. Bendix King style radio button caps that fit the existing MEC style switch bases.

http://www.fsuipc.co.uk/img/BK_MEK_Buttons.jpg

Now I am trying to work out how to print on them. Hmm...

Chris

[Ronson2k9]

A couple of idea's you could use a dry transfer sheet. I'm not sure if they are as widely used as the days before digital technology but they perhaps could still be found. You could also get a custom stamps made. Then rig up a jig to make the stamp quite accurate. You wouldn't want to stamp without some kind of support. There are a ton of stamp shops out there mostly for scrap booking but should be able to perhaps make one stamp (buttons are small) that would do every button.

Design a Custom Rubber Stamp Online (http://www.thestampmaker.com/)

You would need to make a kind of mini printing press to hold the buttons and stamp for a clean transfer. Afterward a few coats of clear should keep the button from wearing out it's stamped identifier.

Just some thoughts.
Ron

[cjellwood]

Thanks Ron,

Transfers are unreliable and expensive so not going down that route. The idea of putting them through a commercial flatbed printer seemed ideal but my recent attempt to get one from China resulted in me being ripped off to the tune of £900 by a nigerian :( But luckily paypal are mediating and should get a refund hopefully.

If at first you dont succeed......give up lol

Chris

[Ronson2k9]

I know that model railroad model manufacturers use a stamp process to 'paint' their equipment with. The detail in that process is easily greater then what you would need. I think a stamp is the way to go. In as much as it's not sprayed on like an inkjet would do. With a porous surface 'paper' you can get away with that because the pigment has a place to go but you're working with plastic so it won't absorb the pigment it will sit and dry on the surface. If you plan on making a ton of buttons then that process while perhaps pricey up front goes done quickly per printing and you can get white ink for printing/stamping on black.

You could make a holder for the buttons. Then put that onto a scanner and get the position of them then make your stamp template from. The holder has to of course be the same when you stamp your buttons.

The only other way would be the 'button makers' way of CNC the letters into the surface then add ink. They are most likely made with the lettering already there that is the mold they use has the letters shaped into the surface so then they just add ink and remove the excess.

However I took a look for DIY printing presses and you could perhaps build a small one that is cantilevered that would hold the stamp when stamping. A bit similar to the rudder pedal mechanism. You need to hold the stamp vertical/still while you stamp to minimize smearing. If the buttons are CNC'd first that takes out some of the guess work but adds to the time and cost.. It would also help if you know what kind of plastic the buttons are made from when selecting an ink.

Buying stuff from the orient is never something I do unless I absolutely have to / never. I've been tempted a few times but I always work hard to find a work around. I use that info though to find a better way. :)

Depending on how many you want to make you may want to seek out a professional printer. If you can supply the buttons then they might be able to print them cheaper then you could (all things considered).

Cheers
Ron

[webitman]

Hi chris
Can you mention where these radio buttons can be purchased from, i have searched and cant find anyone selling them.
And thanks for all this great advise your giving just what i need to help my cessna build, great info
keep it up.

Paul

[cjellwood]

Hi Paul,

The buttons are prototypes I had made pending being produced in quantity next month. If all goes to plan they will have lasered icons/numbers etched on too. If you are subscribed to this thread then you will be updated about it very soon

Chris


Hi chris
Can you mention where these radio buttons can be purchased from, i have searched and cant find anyone selling them.
And thanks for all this great advise your giving just what i need to help my cessna build, great info
keep it up.

Paul

[cjellwood]

Another development on the parts front. Custom LED displays for DME and ADF radio units. Buying light boxes and 7 segment LED's separately is very expensive, but after paying for the initial tooling costs these custom displays are very cheap. There is a problem with the lettering on one unit which is being ironed out now.

http://www.fsuipc.co.uk/img/8UR.jpg

http://www.fsuipc.co.uk/img/9UR.jpg

Chris

[webitman]

Hi Chris
I have been re-reading all the posts since you started the original, but for some reason i cant view any of the pictures that you have posted, and when i click the link for ( leons-world.com ) all i get is a blank page or "internet explorer cant show this page" am i missing somthing.

Paul

[No Longer Active]

My internet explorer (google chrome) says that if I click on leons-world website I will get a virus.....

[cjellwood]

sorry, I have recently changed servers and waiting for my mate to set up the domains. Should be back up by tomorrow

Chris

[Anderson/SBSP]

Hi Chris
I have been re-reading all the posts since you started the original, but for some reason i cant view any of the pictures that you have posted, and when i click the link for ( leons-world.com ) all i get is a blank page or "internet explorer cant show this page" am i missing somthing.

Paul

Same problem here!!!

[hyamesto]

Great work. As you say, its the real flap lever of cessna planes, but I can´t understand the logic of microswitchs.
My idea was put the microswichts in certain positions for the next logic:

Switch 1=0 and Switch 2=0 ====> (0,0) Flaps 0 Degrees (up)
Switch 1=1 and Switch 2=0 ====> (1,0) Flaps 10 Degress
Switch 1=1 and Switch 2=1 ====> (1,1) Flaps 20 Degress
Switch 1=0 and Switch 2=1 ====> (0,1) Flaps 30 Degress (Full)

With only 2 inputs of your interface, you can handle 4 values.
My first design, was with a potenciometer, but I´m not happy with this.
I´m working with opencockpits interfaces and SIOC.
Can you explain how can work the switchs.?
Sorry if my english is not good.
Thanks and continue this great work.

[cjellwood]

opencockpits should have a switch interface card available but I dont have a clue how to configure SIOC to handle logic from 2 switches. This is the reason why I am producing an FSUIPC breakout board and interface software which will be posted about here soon. It is simple mapping between FSUIPC offsets and physical IO connectors on the PCB. There is a feature being added to the software that allows inputs to be linked to create a further FSUIPC instruction ex:

1) Switch 1: on/off = offset 4785 write value 1/0
2) Switch 2: on/off = offset 4786 write value 1/0
3) Custom link operation: If (Switch 1 = on) and (Switch 2 = on) offset value 4787 write value 1

or direct PCB instruction if a PCB IO is not assigned to an offset

3) Custom link operation: If (Switch 1 = on) and (Switch 2 = on) LED4 = on

A nice GUI for all this called 'no more tears' (just kiddin' lol)

Chris


Great work. As you say, its the real flap lever of cessna planes, but I can´t understand the logic of microswitchs.
My idea was put the microswichts in certain positions for the next logic:

Switch 1=0 and Switch 2=0 ====> (0,0) Flaps 0 Degrees (up)
Switch 1=1 and Switch 2=0 ====> (1,0) Flaps 10 Degress
Switch 1=1 and Switch 2=1 ====> (1,1) Flaps 20 Degress
Switch 1=0 and Switch 2=1 ====> (0,1) Flaps 30 Degress (Full)

With only 2 inputs of your interface, you can handle 4 values.
My first design, was with a potenciometer, but I´m not happy with this.
I´m working with opencockpits interfaces and SIOC.
Can you explain how can work the switchs.?
Sorry if my english is not good.
Thanks and continue this great work.

[cjellwood]

This dude went slightly over budget on his sim


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb4GaOyxgV0

lolz

Chris

[No Longer Active]

Ol my god, I can print one of them sims right now! woohoo

[webitman]

Chris
Just a thought about these RP parts being porous, i'm wondering if giving them a couple of coats of diluted PVA to seal the surface before painting, this is the way i use to overcome problems with porous surfaces when i was a builder, you never know it might work in this senario.

Paul

[webitman]

Chris
There is a plastidip in the UK, they dont seem to have a website but i have their address, tel No, and sales email address, can PM if you would like it

Paul

[cjellwood]

Chris
There is a plastidip in the UK, they dont seem to have a website but i have their address, tel No, and sales email address, can PM if you would like it

Paul

There is a special solution for sealing the RP parts which I will be discovering soon as I have just ordered some vernier parts to be prototyped and painted by a RP specialist http://www.impossiblecreations.co.uk/

Chris

[cjellwood]

Here are a few random pics of todays developments.

Custom LED displays have arrived for ADF and DME radio modules. This is 90% of the work done for any builder that wants to replicate the Cessna radios. I am building my own radios with these but of course these components are available to anyone building from their own spec.
http://www.fsuipc.co.uk/img/ADF_DME_Radio_LED_Displays.jpg

and how cool is this ! Recently I bought a laser cutter/etching machine and am amazed at the level of detail it can cut to on balsa of all materials :)
http://www.fsuipc.co.uk/img/R22_panel.JPG

Chris

[webitman]

Chris

You have done an exellent job with these, and i'm sure many simmers will be greatfull for the amount of work this will save them building their avionics panels, "i know i am", and with your buttons as well it should make the task a lot simpler.
If you dont mind me asking, as you are building your radios, do you have any measurements for the faceplates that you would be willing to share, or where i could find the right information i need to design them with "Front Panel Designer". I'm hoping to build the standard cessna 172R avionic stack.
and have been trying to find some faceplate DFX files on the net so that i could get some ideal of sizes but having no luck.

Paul

[cjellwood]

Thanks Paul!

The radios are generally around 168mm wide and variable height for each radio. My designs are not to spec so not much use sorry.

Chris

[cjellwood]

Simkits flaps lever for sale, pm me if your interested or http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SIMKITS-Cessna-172-Flaps-Switch-Flight-Simulator-TRC-USB-Aircraft-Simulation-/200651609282?pt=UK_CPV_Aviation_SM&hash=item2eb7c494c2

http://www.fsuipc.co.uk/img/DSC_2924.JPG

Chris

[cjellwood]

This is how NOT to bend acrylic when trying to make a prototype lol

http://www.simbits.com/img/flaps1.jpg

http://www.simbits.com/img/flaps2.jpg

but it still worked !

Chris

[webitman]

Thats why they call them "prototypes", cant wait untill you have ironed out your bends, Great project needed badly for simmers that cant aford the extream prices asked by some companies, any ideal how long it will be before full production. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.

Paul

[cjellwood]

The flaps assembly is pretty much ready apart from the stainless steel chassis which is represented here by the acrylic. A chassis was produced but there was a major error in it that cost me lots of dough so I am checking switch positions with acrylic for now while saving up for a new batch of chassis'.

Here is how the micro switches work to get the positions
http://www.simbits.com/img/flap_pos1.jpg
http://www.simbits.com/img/flap_pos2.jpg
http://www.simbits.com/img/flap_pos3.jpg
http://www.simbits.com/img/flap_pos4.jpg

There is also a clever but simple mechanism at work to create the lever friction that I will detail later in a seperate thread. The same mechanism could be used for 737 landing gear levers etc so it is worth threading on its own

Chris

[iwik]

Chris,
Well Done, Id be starter for one of these, i built my own one but since have worked out how the real one goes and you appear have nailed it.I didnt do
a good job.
Keep up the great work, there are plenty of GA builders out there.

Regards
Les

[No Longer Active]

Hi Chris

Excellent work as always mate! Keep it up!

Put me down for a flaps lever! I'm interested!

Cheers,

Alex

[webitman]

Chris

Is there any special reason you want the chassis in "exspensive stainless," just looking at the prototype with the acrylic chassis surely has to be better, why hide the incredible work you have done here for us fellow simmers, isnt it better to see all the mechanical parts working in harmony, i for one enjoy that sort of thing and im sure there are others out there who feel the same "or mabe i'm just sad" and off course it must be a cheaper opption.

Paul

[cjellwood]

Here is the original prototype where the chassis was cut from mild steel. Unfortunately this is the version that had a multitude of errors hence why returning to the acrylic chassis.

http://www.simbits.com/img/flaps_3.jpg

After two weeks in a dry environment it looks like this...

http://www.simbits.com/img/flaps_4.jpg

It is not possible to use acrylic because the flap lever is spring metal like the original lever that bends into the notch positions. When it bends there is lots of stress on the chassis so the acrylic bends too (not good)

Stainless is expensive but there are alternatives such as aluminium or just paint the chassis to protect it.

Today I bought some acrylic glue so will attempt to make a new acrylic chassis but this time there be no bending, just cutting the sections out seperately and sticking them together. Will post results this evening

Chris

[webitman]

Thank you for the explanation Chris i didnt realize it was spring metal point taken about the stress, then would it not be better to stick with alluminium as this will be lighter material to keep the weight to a minimum and cheaper than having the metal chassis painted or powder coated.
Which ever way you go i want one

Paul

[cjellwood]

Thank you for the explanation Chris i didnt realize it was spring metal point taken about the stress, then would it not be better to stick with alluminium as this will be lighter material to keep the weight to a minimum and cheaper than having the metal chassis painted or powder coated.
Which ever way you go i want one

Paul

my gut feeling is to go with aluminium. It will need to be a good tough grade to be strong at only 1.5mm thick.

Chris

[webitman]

Is there anyway you can use a thicker aluminium say 2-3mm for the strength and countersink your fittings, providing your design allows for this.

Paul

[cjellwood]

Here is a better prototype fresh out of the laser cutter. This time I just made snap fits and glued it to get the correct dimensions.

http://www.simbits.com/img/flaps_5.jpg

http://www.simbits.com/img/flaps_6.jpg

If anyone would like to pre order one of these then please pm me. Raising a few quid now will help pay for the chassis cost to get it complete. I also have a design for a pitch wheel mechanism that would be next on the table.

Chris

[iwik]

Excellent, have sent you a PM.
Les
P.S are you going to supply without servo as i have plenty floating around spare.

[No Longer Active]

Hi Chris.

How much do these cost?

Cheers

Alex

[webitman]

Chris

You can put me down for one of these.

Please let us know what the cost will be as some of us will have to save hard.

Are there any more updates on the displays.

Paul

[cjellwood]

The casing has finally been produced from 1.5mm mild steel that has been pre zinc coated. It was just going to be plain mild steel until I got a call from the laser cutter asking if I wanted zinc coated mild steel, because they had run out of the standard material. I did not know this stuff even existed? It is a good thing because it saves a trip to the electroplaters and does not add to the build cost.

http://www.simbits.com/img/flaps_7.jpg
http://www.simbits.com/img/flaps_8.jpg
http://www.simbits.com/img/flaps_9.jpg

Chris

[webitman]

Chris
have you finished making these bushings, if so have you made any extra as I would be very happy to install them into my MIP.

If by any chance you do have some spare what would be the price.

Paul