Problem with PFC b737 Yoke

[Peter Nielsen]

I recently bought a Precision Flight Control B737 Yoke but have only problems as it will not work properly.

When connecting it to the USB port is does not complete any software installation, under game controllers its found and i can calibrate it ok, but the calibration does not find the trim rocket switches.

when in FS9 somehow the Yoke sends a command to FS to only default to an UP view... nice clouds but totally unflyable.

have tried to delete joystick in FS9 and calibrate via FSUIPC, but result is exactly the same.

Anyone with any ideas?
Kind regards
Peter

[Peter Dowson]

I recently bought a Precision Flight Control B737 Yoke but have only problems as it will not work properly.

When connecting it to the USB port is does not complete any software installation, under game controllers its found and i can calibrate it ok, but the calibration does not find the trim rocket switches.
I don't know the USB version, but I believe the switches and rockers on it are encoded like the CH joystick ones. You may need a CH joystick driver, or one compatible. It should have come with the device -- otherwise, have you looked on PFC's site?

Failing that I would think you could find one on the CH site? Try http://www.chproducts.com/retail/downloads.html .

Of course, my knowledge of these things dates back to the old game Port devices, which didn't automatically identify themselves. It may be that the CH USB drivers don't recognise the PFC device at all. In which case I think you will have to contact PFC -- if you bought the device new they offer free tech support. See http://www.flypfc.com .

Regards
Pete

[Peter Nielsen]

Tks Pete,

Im actually more frustated and confused today than yesterday..

Took the yoke back to the vendor.. he plugged it into his PC and it all worked perfectly.

have since this afternoon sat at home uninstalling every single USB driver i have on the PC, unplugging all devices, getting rid of Phidget/CH/GoFlght drivers and it does not want to work??? even updated windows etc etc

FS9 and PFC yoke results in a constant VIEW UP the second i remove the USB the view goes back to normal front..

Totally lost at this time...

Peter

[Peter Dowson]

Took the yoke back to the vendor.. he plugged it into his PC and it all worked perfectly.
He must have had a compatible driver already installed.


have since this afternoon sat at home uninstalling every single USB driver i have on the PC, unplugging all devices, getting rid of Phidget/CH/GoFlght drivers and it does not want to work??? even updated windows etc etc
I suspect it's more a case of finding the right driver than removing any existing ones.


FS9 and PFC yoke results in a constant VIEW UP the second i remove the USB the view goes back to normal front..
All that means is that one of the switches (probably the rockers) are getting assigned to views, like a Hat, but the data arriving is being misinterpreted. I'm sure you could re-assign things (in FSX or FSUIPC, dpeending where it's being assigned) to avoid that. FS won't be doing things with nothing assigned, so that's within your control no matter what driver you use. It's just that you need the right driver to get all the switch returns correctly interpreted.

Didn't you try the PFC website? They have a support forum too. And did you look to see if a CH driver would do the trick?

Regards
Pete

[Peter Nielsen]

He must have had a compatible driver already installed.



I suspect it's more a case of finding the right driver than removing any existing ones.


Wonderful and where do i find that? the PFC technical team basically is staying that there are no drivers and keep insisting that the Yoke is faulty. even when i tell them it works on the vendors PC


All that means is that one of the switches (probably the rockers) are getting assigned to views, like a Hat, but the data arriving is being misinterpreted. I'm sure you could re-assign things (in FSX or FSUIPC, dpeending where it's being assigned) to avoid that. FS won't be doing things with nothing assigned, so that's within your control no matter what driver you use. It's just that you need the right driver to get all the switch returns correctly interpreted.

The rockers are not working properly, in the calluibration i managed to get B 3 to light up but only by simultaneously pressing both of the rockers up, the same for button 4, by simultaneously pressing them both down.. tried to then assign via FSUIPC but there they are not found at all... so as not found i cant assign anything to them..



Didn't you try the PFC website? They have a support forum too. And did you look to see if a CH driver would do the trick?

I have created an account on their forum and logged on but see no topics at all..

Could you please explain what you mean by a CH Driver? i tried to see if i could callibrate the yoke via the CH manager but it does not see the PFC yoke..

What i will try tonight is to keep the CH yoke connected and then connect the PFC as well and see what that may or may not result it.

Could it perhaps have something to do with my FSUIPC settings? could I mail them to you Pete?

Regards
Peter

[Peter Dowson]

Wonderful and where do i find that?
Sorry, no idea. Did you look at the CH site?

Another possibility, if it is supposed to work okay with default Windows drivers, is that your USB port is broken. Obviously the device is okay as you proved that at the dealer. So, try a different USB port or even a different PC, just to check. If you are using a USB hub, bypass it and plug directly into the PC.


The rockers are not working properly, in the calluibration i managed to get B 3 to light up but only by simultaneously pressing both of the rockers up, the same for button 4, by simultaneously pressing them both down.. tried to then assign via FSUIPC but there they are not found at all... so as not found i cant assign anything to them..
But since something is most obviously assigned -- to get your consistent view up -- you need to find it and unassign it. If not in FSUIPC then it must be in FS. There is no way FS is responding to things which aren't assigned.


Could you please explain what you mean by a CH Driver?
"A CH driver" means "A driver for a CH joystick". But as I said right at the very beginning, my experience in this area was all with Game Port connected devices. USB devices tend to identify themselves so presumably only get associated with specific drivers automatically. It was only a shot in the dark.


Could it perhaps have something to do with my FSUIPC settings?
No, no way. If you can't see the buttons responding correctly in Windows "Game Controllers", and can't assign them as you wish in FS assignments, then FSUIPC has no chance. You are jumping ahead of yourself. Don't bother trying with FSUIPC until you can use it normally. FSUIPC offers additional and switchable assignment facilities, not superior hardware drivers. it just uses the standard Windows interfaces.

Regards
Pete

[Peter Nielsen]

But since something is most obviously assigned -- to get your consistent view up -- you need to find it and unassign it. If not in FSUIPC then it must be in FS. There is no way FS is responding to things which aren't assigned.

Tks Pete,
I managed to get the callibration to accept VIEW Forward when pressing the rocket switches, but all it results in is that the view starts a constant "round and round tumble", just goes round and round.. the spot view defaults to a DOWN view and is stuck in place.
I even went so far to delete the (i kept a back up) the entire Fs9 cgf file and still no result.
I have deleted all key presses for the yoke in the callibration section of FS9, removed all key and button presses in FSUIPC. result still the same..
With the CH Yoke and PFC Yoke connected at the same time, seems the PFC overrides as the view is as aboe, if i disconnect the PFC yoke the view reverts to normal. i have tried connecting to all the USB slots and nothing..
Am I loosing it? it feels that way...

[Peter Dowson]

I managed to get the callibration to accept VIEW Forward when pressing the rocket switches, but all it results in is that the view starts a constant "round and round tumble", just goes round and round.. the spot view defaults to a DOWN view and is stuck in place.
I even went so far to delete the (i kept a back up) the entire Fs9 cgf file and still no result.
That wouldn't help in any case as Fs simply automatically reassigns. You'd need to disable joysticks in FS completely, OR go through every assignment and delete it explicitly.



I have deleted all key presses for the yoke in the callibration section of FS9, removed all key and button presses in FSUIPC. result still the same..
Key presses are totally irrelevant. you have to delete all assignments to buttons in FS! The device will not be making any keypresses, it is pointless deleting any of those assignments.

Also, if FS ever sees the joystick as "newly connected" (which could be just it waking up after USB power management put it to sleep) it could do its auto-reassignments again. There are ways around this, like editing the DEVICES CFG and DEVICES2 CFG files for your device name -- that's where FS gets the data for the auto-assignments -- but it might be easier, when finding the button assignments responsible, to assign them to some thing else, something more innocuous.


With the CH Yoke and PFC Yoke connected at the same time, seems the PFC overrides as the view is as aboe, if i disconnect the PFC yoke the view reverts to normal. i have tried connecting to all the USB slots and nothing..
There are most certainly button or hat (POV) assignments you've not explicitly unassigned. There is no other possible explanation. Test by turning off the joystick (disable in the FS menus).

Pete

[Aaron]

Hi!

I have the PFC Jetliner column Yoke too (usb).

As far as I know, there is no need to install any drivers, as windows detects the yoke and install everything itself. Do not remeber by memory whats the manual says, buts I think its there.

You says that during instalation no software its installed (wich is normal, only the driver its auto-installed, no aditional software its necessary) but I dont know if you say software when you mean driver.

One thing that should happends, is this: In very USB devices, its there is a usb-extended-cable (usb male to female attached to the joystic USB cable, or maybe you are using a too large usb cable for your yoke. Thats depend on your motherboard, your powersuply and the quality of the USB cable (try using just the yoke without any other USB device, and try with your shortest cable)

But all this makes no sense when you say you can calibrate it perfectly. If you can calibrate, your problem is within FS and not with the yoke/installation/driver. As Peter say, look inside FS assignaments and remove all axis and buttons asignations, because FS assigns automaticaly everytime a new joystic is detected.

One more thing about the trimming buttons. They dont work as individual switches, you need to press both (both nose up, or both nose down) to send the key command to the PC. I think its works this way because its this way that works on the aircraft (but I dont know this, just assume it).

[Peter Nielsen]

I think im getting there..
played around with various USB ports, deleted all buttons/key assignments and now at least the view is facing front..

the problem now is that if i go into FSUIPC and say assign PTT to button 1 the view snaps back to up...

Lets see, there may be light at the end of this tunnel..

[Peter Dowson]

the problem now is that if i go into FSUIPC and say assign PTT to button 1 the view snaps back to up...
You have something very wrong if merely assigning one control results in another activating. Enable Button and Event logging in FSUIPC and see what the log shows when you do that. I suspect there are still assignments you've not found. The CH-encoding of buttons on yokes, which I think is emulated in the PFC yoke, uses combinations of 4 button signals (the max in an old-fashioned game port device) to produce 15 different button signals, plus an "off". I suspect this is where it's all going wrong -- if they still do that, which of course they may not.

I really have no information so I cannot tell what is going on. I'm only trying to help because I have had dealings with PFC devices -- but not the USB ones except their recent consoles.

If you purchased this recently and you aren't getting support for something which doesn't work, why aren't you creating hades (this forum won't let me use h e l l ! At least not all joined up!) with your supplier, rather than allowing them the complacency of saying "it works here"? I'd demand better suport or your money back!

Pete

[Peter Nielsen]

Tks Pete for the hints,

i enabled logging and this is a part of the log.. there is a constant command for PAN UP from button 32???

789360 [Buttons] 52=R1,32,C65734,0
789360 Repeating flag set: bRef=0, Joy=1, Btn=32 (RepeatDelayCtr=11)
789360 FS Control Sent: Ctrl=65734, Param=0
789360 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 65734 (0x000100c6), Param= 0 (0x00000000) PAN_UP
789422 [Buttons] 52=R1,32,C65734,0
789422 Repeating flag set: bRef=0, Joy=1, Btn=32 (RepeatDelayCtr=11)
789422 FS Control Sent: Ctrl=65734, Param=0
789422 [Buttons] 52=R1,32,C65734,0
789422 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 65734 (0x000100c6), Param= 0 (0x00000000) PAN_UP
789469 [Buttons] 52=R1,32,C65734,0
789469 Repeating flag set: bRef=0, Joy=1, Btn=32 (RepeatDelayCtr=11)
789469 FS Control Sent: Ctrl=65734, Param=0
789469 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 65734 (0x000100c6), Param= 0 (0x00000000) PAN_UP
789516 [Buttons] 52=R1,32,C65734,0
789516 Repeating flag set: bRef=0, Joy=1, Btn=32 (RepeatDelayCtr=11)
789516 FS Control Sent: Ctrl=65734, Param=0
789516 [Buttons] 52=R1,32,C65734,0
789516 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 65734 (0x000100c6), Param= 0 (0x00000000) PAN_UP
789563 [Buttons] 52=R1,32,C65734,0
789563 Repeating flag set: bRef=0, Joy=1, Btn=32 (RepeatDelayCtr=11)
789563 FS Control Sent: Ctrl=65734, Param=0
789563 [Buttons] 52=R1,32,C65734,0
789563 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 65734 (0x000100c6), Param= 0 (0x00000000) PAN_UP
789625 [Buttons] 52=R1,32,C65734,0
789625 Repeating flag set: bRef=0, Joy=1, Btn=32 (RepeatDelayCtr=11)
789625 FS Control Sent: Ctrl=65734, Param=0
789625 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 65734 (0x000100c6), Param= 0 (0x00000000) PAN_UP
789625 [Buttons] 52=R1,32,C65734,0
789672 [Buttons] 52=R1,32,C65734,0

[Peter Dowson]

i enabled logging and this is a part of the log.. there is a constant command for PAN UP from button 32???
Okay. Button 32 is the forward press of a Hat -- FSUIPC numbers the 8 possible positions of a Hat from 32 to 39, clockwise.

789360 [Buttons] 52=R1,32,C65734,0

And that clearly identifies the line in your FSUIPC INI file which assigns button 32, i.e the line reading

52=R1,32,C65734,0

in the [Buttons] section. You said you'd got rid of all FSUIPC button assignments, but evidently not the very one which was troubling you! How did you miss it?

If you aren't sure what you are doing with FSUIPC it would be best to delete your INI file so nothing is set and everything returns to defaults!

Regards
Pete

[Peter Nielsen]

Tks Pete

I deleted this entry

52=R1,32,C65734,0

And all now works PERFECT!!

I am extremely grateful for your hints and replies as this did solve the issue.. Having used CH for the better part of 10 years and also FSUIPC i never ever had this kind of issue and it was driving me nuts..

Only draw back now is that as i went in and killed all my USB drivers i gotta start all over again, as now my Flight Illusion set up is complainig about not existing ports, the TQ on Phidgets has decided it does not like me either and the Rudder has decided it has become a permanent brake.

A well, wonders of Windows!

Pete, Aron Tks gents!

PS.. forgot to say.. the PFC Yoke is wonderful.. very very good.

[Peter Nielsen]

bad dream...
as of last night the aieleron input is as dead as a dodo..

Elevator works fine, calibration does not help, has anyone else had this breaking down on them?
Peter

[mounty]

I had this problem with my PFC yoke some years ago and they told me it was a dysfunctional potentiometer. Didn't do anything with it, sold the unit as was to someone.

Rob

[OmniAtlas]

Had a similar problem with the trim on my PFC Beech Yoke. Regardless of what I programed in FSUIPC, trimming down would cause the plane to go down (and not up), and trimming up would cause the plane to go up (and not down).

Ended up having to delete the aircraft settings in FSUIPC and reprogramming everything again (it was previously assigned with a saitek yoke).

[Peter Dowson]

Had a similar problem with the trim on my PFC Beech Yoke. Regardless of what I programed in FSUIPC, trimming down would cause the plane to go down (and not up), and trimming up would cause the plane to go up (and not down).

A simple reversal would have fixed that. Both FS and FSUIPC have reverse options. You don't normally need them for trim, but maybe yu had one set in one of the places.

Pete

[OmniAtlas]

I tried the reverse option, didn't work :( but resetting FSUIPC did the trick.

Theres something funny with the PFC yoke buttons; when I enter bios, my key selection (cursors) go crazy -- its like I'm holding down the down-cursor key. I can only enter my bios submenus if I disconnect the yoke first.

[Peter Dowson]

I tried the reverse option, didn't work :( but resetting FSUIPC did the trick.

Sounds like you had conflicting assignments.


Theres something funny with the PFC yoke buttons; when I enter bios, my key selection (cursors) go crazy -- its like I'm holding down the down-cursor key. I can only enter my bios submenus if I disconnect the yoke first.

You have a button assignment with "repeat" enabled" for a button or switch which is either stuck "on" or "pressed", or a button which does not actually exist but for which Windows is signalling "pressed". The former is more likely.

Pete