New Interface Board - FSUIPC Direct [Archive]

cjellwood

09-29-2011, 04:21 PM

Hi,

I hope to start an interesting thread here about the development of a new interface board that is being developed specifically for cockpit builders. The first prototypes are hot out of the oven as I write this so will add pics and information over the coming days/weeks as it develops. Any criticism or help is appreciated at this stage so it may be as usefull and bug free as possible on first attempt.

http://www.simbits.com/img/pcb1.jpg

The concept is simple. On the board there are several dedicated I/O's for LED's, rotaries, potentiometers, switches and a 12v mosfet switch. On the software side there is an easy to use interface that allows the user to quickly associate each connector with an FSUIPC offset. The interface then has multiple options for telling the selected I/O how to behave on certain FSUIPC parameters.

More about this soon, please subscribe to this post. There may be free baords available for field testing if you hang around long enough :)

Chris

Tom_G_2010

09-29-2011, 05:28 PM

There seem to be a plethora of I/O boards out there each with their own pros and cons. And, of course associated App's likewise with pros and cons. Sorting through the choices can sometimes be overwhelming to new builders. That's not to say there isn't room for new ideas, options, improvements, etc. so I'll be watching your work with interest as I am still early in my own pit build.

In my humble opinion you'll need to be able to distinguish what makes your board stand out among the crowd for it to be successful. Why would people choose your I/O card over the others? What can it do that the others can't? What makes it easier to configure and/or customize? Will its price point make it more attractive, or it's capabilities make its price a non-issue? Will you have well written, up to date, and comprehensive documentation (an issue with some other I/O products out there)? And so on...

From my tiny corner of the sim world though I find the biggest gap in I/O to be simple to administer and affordable solutions for rotary encoders and 7 segment LED displays. Most of the other I/O seems to be well covered. IF your board can address those two devices in simple and affordable way then it suddenly takes on great appeal.

Another challenge with many of the sim products out there comes from the fact that many are produced by individuals or small home based businesses who either don't have a good grasp of real "customer service" or are simply overwhelmed by the demands placed on them by sim builders who parted with hard earned cash to purchase their products. I don't know the size of your operation, but consider how common it is to see builders posting their frustrations over the lack of support from small home based businesses, the slow, or inconsistent responses to e-mail or online queries, and the lack of communications related to ordering, shipping, minimal to non existent tech support, etc.

Off my soapbox now and still very interested to see how this develops and if it has potential to help builders like myself. Looking forward to your updates!

cjellwood

09-29-2011, 06:07 PM

Hi Tom,

Thanks for your reply. The concerns you mention are the main reason for building this board i.e. rotary and LED display interfacing. In the picture posted initially there are 4 RJ45 sockets that connect to expansion boards for expanded use such as LED display interface etc. Generally tho', the big bee in my bonnet is the over complication of many interfaces that is not necessary. So many times I have emailed suppliers for support and left to feel dumb by obnoctious replies or no replies at all. Really with the correct simple interface and good docs there should be no need to request support unless there is a fault.

But not to knock other interfaces of course, they do their job and do it well. This is just a different flavour of interface that should encourage simplicity and compatibility by having OPEN SOURCE FIRMWARE. There you go, I said it lol. Yup, this board has JTAG connectors allowing access to the chips ROM and the firmware will be open source so allowing others to make their own expansion boards along a common protocol that will also be published.

Do you think there will ever be a day when two different cockpit parts suppliers have cross compatible software/hardware? I hope so cos we are all getting old fast !

Top view of main board
http://www.simbits.com/img/pcb2.jpg

Diagram of main board connectors
http://www.simbits.com/img/pcb3.jpg

First expansion board diagram (additional switches and LED's)
http://www.simbits.com/img/pcb4.jpg

At the end of the day the main board carries and distributes FSUIPC data for all offsets. That means any expansion board can be made to operate its specific functions once connected and even fixed modules such as radio units, flaps switches etc can be connected without the need for software configuration. This really is just an FSUIPC -> electronics bridge with some set I/O's to play with.

Chris

Tom_G_2010

09-29-2011, 09:02 PM

That sounds very interesting. I'll watching this thread for updates and may be interested in beta testing.

jrowland

09-30-2011, 12:33 AM

This definitely looks interesting. As a rookie pit builder, still in my "initial design phase", I'm reading as much as possible about everything I can find. One of the areas that intimidates me is the I/O board stuff -- there seem to be so many options that I'm not even sure where to begin, and each of those options seem to have great support sites with a lot of forum stuff to read through... but, rather than being reassuring that support will be available, it's actually more intimidating because of all the back-and-forth between people who are trying to get these to work. As a guy who once touched a soldering gun 15 years ago, while "playing around" connecting two stands of 18 gauge wires together, I'm not the most adept at electronics. Mind you, I'm more than willing to role up my sleeves and get my hands dirty - just trying to figure out where to start seems to be keeping me from starting.

My pit is starting out from a "bought it all", rather than a "build it all", standpoint... I have a whole bunch of Saitek crap all over a desk, and I'm going to start by organizing it into a "panel looking configuration". Since this will be a generic small-GA pit, all I'm really missing is a few rotary encoders to dial in the instruments. That will be my starting point, and this card looks like it might be simple enough that a "point and click" guy like myself can get his toes wet, maybe whet his appetite, and launch him down the path toward a "build it all" version 2.

I'm definitely interested in watching the developments of this thread, and if you'd like a beta tester / writer-upper from a newb perspective, keep me in mind.

kiek

09-30-2011, 02:33 PM

At the end of the day the main board carries and distributes FSUIPC data for all offsets. That means any expansion board can be made to operate its specific functions once connected and even fixed modules such as radio units, flaps switches etc can be connected without the need for software configuration. This really is just an FSUIPC -> electronics bridge with some set I/O's to play with.

Hi,
I admire your enthousiasm (!), but I have to agree with Tom_G: What are your unique selling points?
There are already plenty of interface cards at the market. Imho hardware interface cards is not the problem, it is the programming system that comes with the board that makes the difference.

Do note that for a lot of cockpit functions, especially for the add-on aircraft, there are no FSUIPC offsets available... You need software to add the missing cockpit logic. Just 1-1 clicking of an I/O port to an FSUIPC offset will not alway be possible. Your competitors (such as FSBUS and Opencockpits) fill that gap by offering programmability.

Just my 2 cts.

kind regards,
Nico Kaan
http://www.lekseecon.nl

willwallace

10-03-2011, 08:36 PM

I am interested in building a black shark cockpit but I'm so confused to what interface hardware to buy. i see all these cards but i cant find information like how many switches i can put in. It looks like, from Australia, i will need to get it right before i buy because it will be near impossible to return any products around the world. Can anyone help me find the right hardware for me and a place to buy it from through the net.

cjellwood

10-23-2011, 07:28 AM

Here is the main interface board fresh out of the oven. It would be hard work to explain how this works in one hit, so I will update this post with more info in the coming weeks.

http://www.simbits.com/img/pcb5.jpg

Chris

mondo50m

10-23-2011, 09:09 AM

This is very interesting. I have both FSBUS and OPENCOCKPITS that I have been working with. The first FSBUS was great. No programming, just tell it what you wanted it to do and it did it. I am not a programmer, a board that will work without any programming on my part would be sweet. Looking forward to this board coming out.

Milt

AK Mongo

10-23-2011, 10:45 PM

Chris,

This is pretty neat, but the software interface is what will make or break it, imho.

That being said, if you can find a way to drive steppers and/or servos for creating analog gauges (can't even afford those things secondhand from the plug and play manufacturers) that are easy to calibrate and interface you will be at the top of my list for King of the Sim World!

Tom_G_2010

10-24-2011, 06:02 PM

. . . a board that will work without any programming on my part would be sweet . . .

. . . the software interface is what will make or break it . . .

Chris,

The board looks good from a physical design perspective. However Milt and Reid have nailed the paradox you'll need to address for your board to be any more successful than all the other I/O cards: 1.The non-programmer like Milt must be able to hook up some switches or pots and with a few mouse clicks have them controlling their sim software; and, 2. For someone like Reid or myself who wishe to do more advanced functions we'll need an interface that will accomplish that but preferably without needing to learn a new programming language. The ability to open up an advanced settings window for example with a series of robust options and settings, and/or graphical drag and drop configuration manager where logic and variables can be built in for example.

I don't want to sound harsh, but if you can't hit both targets dead on then it will be just another I/O card option among MANY and will add to the confusion over which one really is the right one. I really do want to see you succeed as I don't know of a card that actually does hit both targets well. Just look at all the posts that ask can I make card X do such and such with an answer of NO, or the hundreds of threads showing exasperation over scripting challenges with CARD Y.

Some of what I'm building in my sim only needs simple straight forward single function switch or pot interfaces. Other I/O functions I'm working on though really need some robust logic and variables management. To do this presently I am using a mix of cards and /or software and it's a bit of a pain in both complexity and expense. I'm still looking for that perfect card and really hope yours might be it.

. . . That being said, if you can find a way to drive steppers and/or servos for creating analog gauges (can't even afford those things secondhand from the plug and play manufacturers) that are easy to calibrate and interface you will be at the top of my list for King of the Sim World!

And, to add to Reid's stepper and servo motor drive I'll echo what I said in an earlier reply, rotary encoders and 7 segment LEDs.

Can you provide some overview on the software interface?

Thanks!
Tom G.

PS - still interested in Beta testing if you need the help.

smendlik

10-24-2011, 08:47 PM

I'd love to get a timeline for these cards. I'm close to being ready to order an I/O card and as of now am leaning towards Leo Bodnar's card one they come back in stock.

mondo50m

10-24-2011, 09:25 PM

Tom G., awesome response. I often have a problem with putting into words what is in my head. You did this quite nicely. Hopefully, this card will do what we need for it to do. I am really anxious to see what it can deliver.

Milt

AK Mongo

10-24-2011, 10:57 PM

I do love the fact that it has the ability to do inputs and outputs. It would have saved me a lot of grief if the Desktop Aviator, Bodnar and Phidgets LED card were all combined into one easy to use solution. It would be even better if it supported Rotary Encoder speed differentiation.(i.e. slow turn slow change, fast turn fast change) That is something that requires a lot of coding to do with the Bodnar board, but can be done thanks to Tom_G.

mondo50m

10-25-2011, 08:53 AM

Has anyone else clicked on the picture of the board and then zoomed in to see what the little white sticker in the middle of the board says? It is really difficult to see, but it looks like the address of a website that is VERY expensive for their products. I hope that I am wrong. Let me know what you think it says.

Milt

AK Mongo

10-25-2011, 09:06 AM

Milt,

Simbits is Chris's enterprise. Not the expensive guys.

Reid

mondo50m

10-25-2011, 09:54 AM

I am glad that someone else looked at this. It would have been scarey if it had been the other company. Would have had to take out a mortgage loan to pay for the board.

Milt

DaySim

10-30-2011, 10:33 PM

I am another "beginner" of sorts although I have a background of interests that make this venture very appealing as I build a cockpit. I would rather have one system that covers a lot of my needs than piece together bits. I too am looking forward to seeing a production version! It certainly looks promising.

mondo50m

11-10-2011, 04:09 PM

Hello!! (knock, knock,knock). Anybody home? Hmmmmm, everyone must be on vacation. I'll come back tomorrow.

Milt

cjellwood

11-10-2011, 04:42 PM

Hey all sorry for not posting recently, I have not been getting notifications of posts to this thread until now. I am building up to a post that will explain everything about this IO board. What I can tell you now is that it is script based like opencockpits and others but with a difference. That difference is that the config/script is loaded to the board by the user via USB flash after it is created in a supplied script editor, not a script handled on the PC side.

This method allows a user to associate an IO with an FSUIPC offset at the lowest level. Say for example you wish to turn on an LED if the oil temp goes above 80 degrees, find an available LED IO on the PCB and load this script to the chip....

if ((FS#08B8) > 80){ IO#7 = 1 }

Not a revolutionary idea but it allows for a multitude of expansion boards to be created because the firmware will be open source. Anyone can create a custom IO board and attach it to the PCB network because there are no software restrictions. The PC software side simply transmits FSUIPC data to the PCB's and recieves instructions on what to write to FSUIPC when required. The firmware and script in hardware memory does all the hard work associating offsets with IO's and their instructions.

In the same way FSUIPC opens doors for interfacing software to FSX, this opens doors for easy interfacing of hardware to FSX. Dont worry if you are not a PCB designer because once this catches on there will be hundreds of expansion boards available from other developers commiting to the protocol (hopefully). Or simply pick a board that has the IO's you need and modify the script to your offsets and instructions

Chris

No Longer Active

11-10-2011, 04:50 PM

We cant underestimate Chris, because he is a complete perfectionist with unrivalled skills in product engineering and product design. He has excellent ideas and creates concepts and then makes them happen with his cold hard cash resulting in a flawless engineered products. We are blessed that this guy is an aviation fan and particularly a GA fan. Chris is the new Simkits, he can slash their costs and expose the profit margins! Give it time, as soon as he ventures into usb gauges then boy wont the sim industry know about it.

Steve masters is also a powerful contender to the avionics market, could you imagine a Steve Masters and Chris Ellwood partnership? Two brits that can take on anyone! Watch out simkits, that's all I'm saying!

cjellwood

11-10-2011, 05:20 PM

thanks Alex, I salute you! :)

It has taken a long time to find the right guys in the industry to produce this stuff, expensive time. But now everything is in place there is lots to look forward to and it is happening fast. Guys like simkits priduce low quantity and charge lots due to that financial concept. My concept is to produce lots and sell lots, set a ball rollling so that parts are affordable for everyone. Affordable parts means high sales, means high turnover that makes affordable parts. Personally it is a gamble for me because nobody has ever attempted to push into this market like it is mainstream, when it is not. My bet is that flight simulation is going to be a houshold hobby like train sets were in the 80's within 5 years. Lets see !

btw, I was the kids that didn't get train sets for xmas in the 80's, so you can see where I am coming from here lol

Chris

Tom_G_2010

11-10-2011, 05:20 PM

if ((FS#08B8) > 80){ IO#7 = 1 }

Any chance your script editor will be either graphical or plain language? Many who have avoided OC and other script based I/O will be put off by anything that resembles coding. I think I fall halfway between the code writers and the code phobic extremes. I'm ok with some coding as long as I don't need a week or two of online reading to figure out the scripting language. BUT, I'd much rather have a graphical interface like Alan Dyers FS2Phidgets V5.

Can you speak more about the script editor you envision for this?

cjellwood

11-10-2011, 05:49 PM

Tom_G_2010

11-10-2011, 05:57 PM

Hi Tom,

I brainstormed the interface concept for months trying to figure out a simple way to configure hardware via software but it is like finding an easy way to bake a cake. Even when all the ingredients are pre packaged and weighed, it is still down to the baker to know how the oven works.

Personally I think graphical configs are more complicated that writing a bit of high level code. But I am thinking of a way to produce the script graphically to please every one in a sense. The script editor will simply be a text editor with a read and write button, connection via JTAG connector or USB for simple flashing of a config.

If a user does not have coding skills then a graphical interface can still be made to alter the config. More on this in a moment...

Chris

Good to hear that both may be available. Given a good gui I can fly (pun intended) with a graphical interface. However, I am also not afraid to to go under the hood when I run into something the gui can't emulate. Being a visual learning and very visual in my approach I will always opt for the graphical interface since past experience has shown me that I'm so much faster with it. Additionally having a background in electrical engineering I prefer a schematic over a logic table any day...

I guess my thinking is I'd rather be flying than coding and I can code faster graphically.

Everyone's different and the broader the appeal of your product the better for you and us. Just my 2 cents worth...

Thanks for all your work on this!!!!!!!!

AK Mongo

11-11-2011, 01:33 AM

If the code is as simple as your example, then It would get interesting. Maybe even have a sort of "code bank" or "project library" where people could submit their projects, to save work for people scared to get started?

mondo50m

11-28-2011, 06:21 PM

Looks like nobody is home again.

Milt

iwik

11-29-2011, 01:17 AM

Hi Milt,
I think Chris is a very busy man, between his sim building and components he is making. I just received a Flaps
unit. Very well made and at a price which was very good.
Give hime some time im sure he will pop up shortly.
Les

cjellwood

11-29-2011, 04:04 AM

barramundi

11-29-2011, 05:18 AM

chris I salute your vision and enthusiasm!! I hope you suceeded. cheera bara

Tom_G_2010

03-14-2012, 06:41 PM

Sorry! For some bizarre reason I am not recieving email notification of replies to this thread except for the ones asking why I not replying lol. At this moment the firmware is being developed so will be able to show an example very soon.

Chris

Chris,

How is this project going? If you've started a new thread and I've missed it my apologies. Any progress, any update?

Tom G.

cjellwood

03-15-2012, 01:39 PM

Hi Tom,

I am wondering what is going on too lol!

The firmware for the system is an absolute monster which is taking ages to sort out. There are 6 communication protocols to deal with, each causing its own bugs that are slowly being ironed out. But I am very excited about the concept that will surely raise a few eyebrows.

After looking at the requirements vs posibilities, the eventual outcome is that the FSUIPC offsets are stored in the PCB EEPROM which allows easy daisy chaining of multiple PCB's. So for each PCB the software loads offsets in the PCB memory that the user wished that PCB to work with. i.e. if the user wants 07BC (autopilot) to operate on pin RB1 then they can load that offset into the memory via the software.

Once the offset is associated with the IO, the software liases with the PCB to then deliver instructions to the PCB via a clever concept known now as the 'action grid'. This is a grid that tells the IO what action to perform depending on pre set conditions or combinations of conditions i.e. (pin = 0) and (offset = 1) = pin turns on. Small scripting is available in the action grid now but here is an old screen shot of the first basic version.

http://www.fsuipc.co.uk/img/sware_scr.gif

I estimate 1 month until first beta's are out for testing.

cheers,
Chris

vicay

04-24-2012, 12:14 AM

Hi,

Do you have any new updates to share with us. I am sure there are so many of us waiting. Apart for some keyboard hacking, I am a new builder, just studying from the past couple of months and want to dive-in with your board as my first.

Let me know if I can buy one for a beta test.

mounty

04-24-2012, 11:35 PM

Hi,

Sounds like a great board and one that can be used in a 737 overhead and MIP. I think I can use this in mysim. Any further news on the product?

Rob

cjellwood

04-29-2012, 11:00 AM

Sorry for the lack of updates! My firmware guy is doing his exams whcih has left me in the lurch for ages :( In the meantime I put together the hardware for the Cessna 172 flaps switch which is sort of related to this project as an external connected PCB. Really I am just showing off some nice PCB design mmmmmm lol

http://www.simbits.com/images/flaps_small.jpg

Chris

Matti V

04-02-2013, 02:52 PM

i think interesting lot but important have nav/radio display and encoders first,second have switch because switch have easy.
and potentiometer need all. can thats card use all good ?
i interesting lot thats,how much card cost want test one someday.
how many in/out card have ?
and have thats good interface software (easy) card to fs2004 talk good easy.
only some use fsx popular have fs i see statically.
sorry my stupid guestions but no know lot interface card yet,newbie.