View Full Version : Help regarding LED's etc.
flEyedot
09-29-2012, 04:16 PM
Hi all,
I am in the process of converting a 727-200 procedural sim (see below) and could do with some help with lighting.
7044
I am using a BU0836X card which I understand will not allow me to use relays to power lights on the panels. From my research, I am assuming I have three options:
1 - SIOC
2 - GoFlight GF-DIO Board.
3 - Use DPDT switches (this is not desirable as I currently have a complete 727 cockpit with genuine and original parts.)
I don't really want to use SIOC because I would much rather use wires rather than software! My questions are as follows:
- Can anyone give me some info regarding the GF-DIO board as I'm a bit confused. I specifically want to know if this will allow me to turn on LED's when switches are turned on but also I want to know if it is recommended by you guys (the ones who actually know what they're doing!).
- Is SIOC a better option: does it 'crash' or are there any real issues getting to grips with it?
- Is there another option I've not come across?
Cheers!
Tom
AK Mongo
09-30-2012, 02:35 AM
There are many other options. Opencockpits cards and sioc are probably the best supported cards. Arduino cards can output to LEDs and are much less expensive than the GF card. It would require some software work, but is pretty versatile.
The Goflight option looks very expensive by the time you get the card and all of the switches, their LEDs, their cords, etc. Goflight is usually very good at being plug and play though.
Reid
AVIATor-Olav
09-30-2012, 03:38 AM
Another 727 builder! :)
In my over head panel, I've wired some of the lights directly to the power supply via switches on the panel. This makes the lights come on when the appropriate switch is flicked. Not entirely realistic, but close enough at the time. On my MIP and glare however I want the marker lights, warning lights, AP disconnect lights etc to light up, and this requires some soft ware as well as hard ware. I initially thought of using OC and SIOC, and infact I have an OC 64 outputs USB card, but I've decided to go another route. I'm getting a new card and soft ware from Ruscool electronics. They have really good, easy to use products, and their customer support is top ntch! My OC will be for sale very soon.
Anyways, are you planning to keep it a 727, or are you converting it to an NG? I'm looking for a flight engineers panel, so if you know of one let me know! :)
Tor
- Is SIOC a better option: does it 'crash' or are there any real issues getting to grips with it?
Yes SIOC is a better option indeed and I can tell you it does not crash...
Of course you need two wires for a led but you also need software to get information from your SIm about states in order to drive the leds. SIOC is perfectly suited for that. If you use software it is also a lot easier (and a lot cheaper) to add a lights test function in software and not via an extra hardware circuit.
My 2 cts... ;-)
regards,
Nico
Nico Kaan's Boeing 767 Flight Simulator with Opencockpits SIOC and lekseecon (http://www.lekseecon.nl)
flEyedot
10-01-2012, 04:06 AM
Thanks for the replies guys, looks like I have some thinking to do! Might have a go at getting my head round SIOC and I'll check out Ruscool too. The advantage for me of using the GoFlight would be that I already have all the switches and lights ready to go so there wouldn't be much to buy other than the board, but the board is pricey...
Tor - This will be staying as a 727 and the plan at the moment is to keep the engineers panel. We are contemplating building the panel into a new frame because the current one is so heavy and we want the sim to be relatively mobile. If you're interested in the actual body of the panel then let me know but to be honest the weight of it would mean horrendous shipping costs and it's probably not worth it unless you get the actual panel as well. The sim is actually owned by a company which maintains a lot of commercial and military simulators so we do occasionally get the opportunity to acquire sim parts (like a complete 727-200!) so although more 727 parts are unlikely as we don't maintain any of these any more, I'll keep an eye out for you.
If you need any measurements or pictures of anything let me know, but having looked at your progress thread you seem to have it under control, you've done a great job!
AVIATor-Olav
10-01-2012, 11:06 AM
Thanks for your kind words, and thanks or keeping an eye out for me! :) The stand alone probably is not going to be worth shipping over here. Thanks anyway.
With regards to your switches and lights, you can still use those if you decide to go with SIOC or any other software, infact I don't understand what else you would do? You hook the switches up to your input card and configure their functions through FSUIPC (I use Leo Bodnar cards for all inputs) and you hook your lights up to your outputs card. You can even use the original 28V bulbs given you hook a 24V power supply to the board. The I/O cards and software are merely tools to interface and make your real equipment communicate with FS. My OC board is for sale in the classifieds secion if your interested. The Ruscool option is a bit more expensive, but I find their customer support worth it. They also customize their products and program the software to the customers needs.
I hope this helps.
BTW what aircraft soft ware are you basing the sim on? Are you going with fsx, fs9 or Xplane?
Regards
Tor
flEyedot
10-01-2012, 01:09 PM
Reading back, it seems I phrased my reply rather badly! What I meant was that, in response to Reid, the GoFlight board might be better value to someone like myself who already has all the switches available, leaving me a bit more to spend on the interface. I already have the control surfaces and switches hooked up so just trying to find the best way to light them now! One of the guys at the office is looking at building us a board to do the same job as the GoFlight module, so there are a few options on the table now.
With regards to the 28V bulbs, I think we'll replace them all with LED's mainly because we may be mounting the simulator on a trailer and they will probably be more reliable. At the moment the plan is to go with FSX and the captainsim 727 - unless you have better recommendations? I was really impressed with XPlane as well so we may look at the possibility of having both - as far as I know this should all be possible!?
Please excuse me if I come across like I have no idea what I'm talking about! I only started this project a couple of weeks ago so still getting my head around some of it!
Thanks for the help!
Tom
AVIATor-Olav
10-01-2012, 04:18 PM
Nono, no reason to exuse yourself. I'm no veteran meself and I have heaps to learn! This is a great place to learn this stuff, so you're in the right place!
I initially wanted to use FSX and the Captainsim 727. The problem is it has no 2D panel and consequently it has no guages to display on the LCD's behind the MIP. I decided to go back to fs9 and use the Dreamfleet 727. I had read about others building cockpits based on this model, so I figured it was a good place to start. Going back to fs8 was a bit of a bummer, but with addons like REX, GEX etc it look decent. The performance gain with fs9 as opposed to fsx is definately an upside! Also the flight model of the DF 727 is more realistic than the CS 727. FSUIPC offsets for the various outputs you'll want are available in the DF 727. I don't know if you'll be able to get that info from the CS 727.
X-plane certainly looks promising, but I don't know if there is any 727 software suitable to base a cockpit on?
flEyedot
10-01-2012, 04:49 PM
I may be wrong here, but we are planning to use some software called Panel Builder:
Panel Builder (http://simplugins.com/html/panel_builder.html)
I'm not 100% on how this software works but i was under the impression that it takes information from FSX (or xplane) and displays it in its own right and therefore does not require 2D panels from the aircraft. I saw it being used at RC Simulation in the UK: http://www.rcsimulations.co.uk/shop/start and the guys who showed it to me said there would be no problem getting this to run on a 727 sim - it just needs a custom design for each instrument.
We aren't ready to get our panels set up but it won't be too far away so I'll let you know if this does the trick, or you can always drop an e-mail to RC Simulation, Bob is a nice guy and really knows his stuff so I'm sure he will be able to help.
If that isn't the right solution, is it not possible to use the 2D panel from FS9 in FSX?
Hope that helps!
Geremy Britton
10-01-2012, 05:51 PM
Tom,
Where abouts in the UK are you?
AVIATor-Olav
10-02-2012, 02:12 AM
I may be wrong here, but we are planning to use some software called Panel Builder:
Panel Builder (http://simplugins.com/html/panel_builder.html)
I'm not 100% on how this software works but i was under the impression that it takes information from FSX (or xplane) and displays it in its own right and therefore does not require 2D panels from the aircraft. I saw it being used at RC Simulation in the UK: Shop Foyer - RC Simulations (http://www.rcsimulations.co.uk/shop/start) and the guys who showed it to me said there would be no problem getting this to run on a 727 sim - it just needs a custom design for each instrument.
We aren't ready to get our panels set up but it won't be too far away so I'll let you know if this does the trick, or you can always drop an e-mail to RC Simulation, Bob is a nice guy and really knows his stuff so I'm sure he will be able to help.
If that isn't the right solution, is it not possible to use the 2D panel from FS9 in FSX?
Hope that helps!
It may be possible to use Panel builder, but you will need to find suitable guages. Yes you can use some 2D panels and guages from fs9 in FSX. The DF 727 is only for fs9 however.
On a side note regarding your switches. A lot of the switches in my hardware has two or more poles. In that case you can use on pole to connect to the bodnar card, and the other pole wired directly to the lamp you want to light.
Regards
Tor
flEyedot
10-02-2012, 10:17 AM
Geremy - We are based in Wiltshire, around 20 minutes away from Swindon.
I certainly hope we can use panel builder! We'll probably get the gauges built or do it ourselves if we can in that case. The next step for us is stripping the entire CPT down and giving it a good clean - the sim is filthy after we gave it to someone to build for us and he left it outside on a farm and did a runner with our money! - after which we'll make a start on the MIP and will investigate panel builder. I'm really keen to use FSX (in fact it will probably be Prepar3d if possible) although to be honest FS9 looks fantastic with REX etc. so it's not a huge issue.
Thanks for the tip about the lamps, I'd focused on wiring up the actual switch and haven't even looked behind the panel since - I'll check it out!
On a side note regarding your switches. A lot of the switches in my hardware has two or more poles. In that case you can use on pole to connect to the bodnar card, and the other pole wired directly to the lamp you want to light.
Be careful with that, because in most cases that is wrong. A led often indicates whether the function controlled by the Switch is actually working. So you need info from your simulator panel to drive the led, and not the position of the switch... In a Cold and Dark cockpit for instance you do not want the led to lit if you put the Switch in the ON position.
regards,
Nico
AVIATor-Olav
10-02-2012, 01:32 PM
Be careful with that, because in most cases that is wrong. A led often indicates whether the function controlled by the Switch is actually working. So you need info from your simulator panel to drive the led, and not the position of the switch... In a Cold and Dark cockpit for instance you do not want the led to lit if you put the Switch in the ON position.
regards,
Nico
True. It all depends on how nuts you want to with regards to realism, but you're right. I have several lights come on at a flick of a switch on the overhead panel, regardless of the master switch being on or not. It doesn't bother me, but each to his own off course.
AVIATor-Olav
02-21-2013, 08:27 AM
Any progress with this project?
Tor
flEyedot
03-11-2013, 05:45 PM
Apologies for the delay in responding - sadly we've not been able to make too much progress recently. We have a major office refurbishment going on and we've never been so busy so the more profitable projects have to come first!
I'm currently working away which doesn't help so I've not actually set eyes on the sim since about 2 weeks after I last posted here. Before I had to stop working on it I got the sim to a 'flyable' state so all the pots are hooked up and a few switches. Once the office refurb is finished we'll look seriously at getting the thing stripped down and onto a trailer/rebuilt somewhere more permanent. The main hurdle will be doing the simulator justice with a great visual system yet keeping it as small as possible. We've got a few ideas to play with so we'll hopefully be able to make a start on that in the coming months.
It seems like whenever we're ready to make progress, something else gets in the way - I'll keep you guys updated as and when we can make any progress!
Cheers,
Tom