Leo Bodnar BBI 32 [Archive]

tiburon

10-16-2012, 01:27 AM

bobsta63

10-16-2012, 06:34 AM

Hi tiburon,

I bought three of these a few weeks ago (I bought the DIY version) I haven't used them yet but I did also purchase two of the rotary switches with the PCB's attached like you say... in the hope to save some connections as apparently only requires a single input obviously must have some embedded diodes or something :)

I plan to have a play with these boards this weekend... I just need to purchase some USB cables so I can solder them to the boards before they'll work lol...
I'll give you an update as soon as I've had a good play :)

Cheers,
Bobby

tiburon

10-16-2012, 06:38 AM

Thanks, sounds good.

Martin

bobsta63

10-16-2012, 08:48 AM

OK Martin... I'll keep you updated :) - Like I say I'm hoping to have a play with them this weekend :)

ian@737ng.co.uk

10-16-2012, 10:57 AM

Hi,

Has anyone tried these cards yet ? I'm especially interested in the rotary switches boards, looks like these could save us a lot of connections.
Ian, didn't you say you have a few of these to play with ?

Martin

my appologies for being 'conspicuous by my absence', but i have so many projects on the go, i just dont seem to have any time these days :o

ok, here's the deal with the rotary's......

this is how it works and what it does.
there are two solder pads on the PCB. one is attached to the centre pin of
the rotary switch. that obviously is the common. the other is attached to all
the outer pins of the rotary switch across the PCB, so that has to be the input.
so, i've soldered the leads on and the common lead has been connected to a GND
input on the BBI-32 card and the other is attached to the button input.
just for my experiment, i have attached to B1 and it's GND.
this what happens..... the switch has 12 positions.
with the switch turned all the way anti clockwise to the first
position, as you turn the switch clockwise, the next consecutive button pulses,
like pressing a button and releasing it.
so turning the switch from position 1 to position 2, pulses the no.2 button.
moving the switch from position 1 to position 12 pulses each button as it passes
that position on the switch. so you get 2,3,4,5,6,7 etc all the way to 12 pulsing.
if you download the BBI-32 utility from Leo's site, you can 'adjust' the pulse width
as you can for encoders on the BU family cards.
there is also a 'Start Position' box which i assume allows you to connect the rotary
switch to any button input, tell the card what is the first position button no. and the 11
buttons above the input button will pulse. but i haven't played with that yet.
what i have found is this....... in my test i used button 1 as the input. so that means
the rotary will pulse button one to 12. but if you only want for example 6 positions,
you can set the rotary using the stop collar for 6 inputs. this means the rotary will only
pulse inputs 1 - 6. you can attach normal switches from input 7 and they work normally.
well that should give you some thing to chew on. i'll have a look at this 'start position'
option at the weekend.

hope that gives you the general idea cap'n

regards from wales

ian

tiburon

10-17-2012, 02:17 AM

Interesting, thanks Ian. Are you saying that if you use only say 6 stops you could use the other stops-connections to connect normal switches? If they're all connected to each other how does the card know which stop you're choosing? Or does it see the stops in relation to the first one? Sorry for the extra questions.

Martin

ian@737ng.co.uk

10-17-2012, 06:48 AM

right as i said in my post, if for example you only want 6 stops on the rotary, you set the number of stops with the stop collar at 6. using B1 as my start point, i would connect the common on the rotary to any GND from B1 to B6 because the GND connections on the board are common to all inputs and as we would be using B1 to B6.
now although the rotary can pulse upto 12 buttons, we are only using 6 (B1 to B6). so the rotary will not influence or input to B7 and above.
it then becomes possible to attach any type of switch to B7 and above because there is no other input to that button as the rotary is limited to inputting upto B6 if you see what i mean :o
phew! did i explain that properly.
what i need to do is look at this start position, but as i have had no need of this yet, i haven't explored what it does.
hope that cleared it upfor you captain

regards

ian

bobsta63

10-17-2012, 07:01 AM

Thats pretty cool Ian.... so without taking this topic way off topic, this would mean that if you bought 11 of these rotary switch PCB's you could actually connect 12 separate switches to each of the 'pins' meaning that from the 11 PCBs and a single BBI-32 you could actually connect and use 132 buttons/switches! - In theory atleast! :)

tiburon

10-17-2012, 10:23 AM

Am I alone in thinking this could be the Sim builders wet dream ?

bobsta63

10-17-2012, 10:41 AM

Am I alone in thinking this could be the Sim builders wet dream ?

132 inputs is rather good yes, remember that you'd also need to purchase the rotary switch PCB's too at £2.50 each so to get 132 inputs (assuming my theory does work) you'd be looking at the following cost:-

1x BBI-32 @ £29.99 ea (although I personally use the DIY versions at a cost of £19.99)
11x Rotary switch PCB @ £2.50 ea

Total cost of a 132 input card (switches only as you wouldn't be able to configure encoders I wouldn't have thought as a software imitation as you'd have to configure the board using Leo's software as running 11x rotary switches) would be a total cost of: £57.49

I'm not sure how the total price and effort required to get the 132 switch inputs measures up against other manufacturers of input cards but yeah... its interesting (assuming it would work but from what Ian describes there is no reason it wouldn't!) :)

ian@737ng.co.uk

10-18-2012, 04:11 AM

now, now chaps.... you are way off centre here. maybe i didn't explain it right.
please remember there are ONLY 32 inputs on the card. so that is the amount of inputs you can get.
in my example above, remember i set the switch at 6 positions and by using B1 to connect the switch up, the switch will pulse button 1 to 6 as it passes each position. so, that has taken care of 6 inputs which leaves another 26 to go.
so, attaching another switch (set to 6 positions) to the B7 input will pulse B7 to B12 which leaves another 20 to go and so on.
i assume that the start position option has something to do with this, but as i explained i haven't tried that out yet because i 1. haven't had time and 2. haven't had a requirement for it yet.
what you can do is after allowing a 'range' for your rotary (6 stops will pulse B1 to B6 and 12 stops will pulse B1 to B12 etc), you may connect any type of switchy to the next consecutive input. for a 6 position switch, that would be B7 and for a 12 position switch, that would be B13.
you would NOT be able to for example set a switch at 6 stops connect to B1 and then attach a second rotary to any of the inputs that your original rotary will use. so you could not attach a second rotary to any of the B2 to B6 inputs, you will just
confuse the board as it will be seeing inputs which it doesn't expect.
hope that's sorted it now chaps.....
rgds

ian

tiburon

10-18-2012, 04:29 AM

Aah, so it saves only on the number of wires coming from the rotary. You could only connect 3 rotaries with 10 positions for example.

Tom_G_2010

10-18-2012, 08:09 AM

tiburon

10-18-2012, 08:17 AM

interesting. That would be easy to test if you have one of these, how about it Bobby ?

bobsta63

10-18-2012, 09:22 AM

I have been following this thread with great interest.

I thought that limit was the case given a 32 button controller but then figured maybe there might be some voodoo in the card to allow for virtual switches. Maybe, while limited to 32 electrical inputs for buttons the firmware could emulate virtual buttons with what it fed to the pc.

Here's what made me think that. The description on the site, under inputs, say:

The first two lines are literal, and in sync with the other Leo Bodnar cards, so it would seem reasonable that the third line was literal as well and implies what was said in prior posts about getting 132 buttons. If the 32 buttons is a literal hardware and firmware limit, why would such a misleading statement be made???

That was my original chain of thought too - You can connect up to 11 rotarty switches of which each having 12 positions :) - However since thinking about it I think the limitation *may* apply to the standard joystick drivers that Windows has? - I've never seen another joystick with more than 32 buttons (inputs)

I'm no electronics guru but as a professional software developer I would *assume* that the rotary switch PCB has some embedded diodes which basically are used to create a 'checksum'/'check bits' kind of thing (in the programming world) to determine which 'bits' and in this case pin's on the rotary PCB are turned on. - I don't know though! lol

I do respect Ian's response and has a lot of experience with Leo Bodnar's equipment so don't get your hopes up guys ;)

@tiburon (http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/member.php?u=1894) - I certainly can test this theory... I'll get around to this at the weekend hopefully!

I'l post back my findings....

ian@737ng.co.uk

10-20-2012, 01:50 AM

hi chaps.....
well i got as far as experimenting with two rotary's connecting the second into the range of the first and the card just did not want to play ball at all. crazy pulsing and one button permanently on. so because i didn't have an application for it (as yet, but i'm sure i will), i 'spat the dummy out' and concentrated on more urgent tasks.
but, i have only been playing with this, i haven't sat down and seriously experimented as yet to see what i can do with this.
the only real answer is i'm going to ask leo.
there's no instructions on his site about connecting, but i'm sure he's working on it :o
if i find out anything, i'll post it here.
rgds

ian

Tom_G_2010

10-20-2012, 08:35 AM

Thanks Ian!

tiburon

10-21-2012, 03:07 AM

That'd be great, Ian

Biggles2010

10-26-2012, 02:16 PM

Like Ian, I have been experimenting with these cards and the BBI 12 position switch. I can certainly confirm the various points that Ian has made. Basically the board has 32 buttons available, and no more. It's a pity that the statements on Leo's website about the multiple options are a bit ambiguous, and rather misleading. It's aggravated because he doesn't provide much information, or respond to emails.

Each BBI 12 position switch only uses 2 wires to connect to the card. But it still takes up as many of the 32 available buttons as are set on that particular switch, to maximum of 12 for each switch. Those buttons are, so far as I can establish, unavailable for anything else, even though there are no wires attached at those positions.

It shows clearly when you go to the control devices calibration screen. The screen shows 32 buttons. When a BBI rotary is connected no buttons are lit until the switch is rotated. It then pulses each of the buttons in turn, depending on the number of positions set on that rotary.
Please note it does not give you up and down ranges. Each button pulse will have the same function whichever way the switch is rotated.

Ian mentioned the start position could be varied in the configuration software. It can also be set to Auto. I think the point of setting the start position to anything other than Auto, is that the BBI rotary can then be connected to any available position on the card, but the range of buttons allocated to it can be any group of consecutive free buttons. Perhaps I'm missing something, but I can't see much point in this.

But however many switches you use, the maximum number of positions available, spread over all the switches, appears to be 32.

My conclusion is that the BBI card is a very useful way of connecting up to 32 buttons or switches at a reasonable cost. And like all Leo's cards it seems to be rock solid and reliable.

However the rotary switch function seems to have very limited use in a simulator. In fact so far I cannot think of any use for it.

Hope this info is of use.

John.

tiburon

10-26-2012, 02:50 PM

John, thank you. That's very informative.

Martin

Tom_G_2010

10-26-2012, 03:35 PM

John, Thanks for looking into that. It's too bad, since the statement on Leo's site really had my attention. Oh well...

Regarding the rotary switch use, I can see a handful of applications but only a very limited benefit, that of saving a few wire runs.

I have two rotaries wired up for my King Air C90 on my desktop pit: one for the wipers, and the other for bus select on the voltmeter. It would have been nice to have saved several feet of wire for that, but again, that's a small benefit and not one that would make me replace my existing Bodanar cards. If, however, I need any additional cards, the BBI might find its way into my build.

johncor

10-28-2012, 02:07 PM

Hi there,I'm having trouble understanding how exactly the BBI 32 card is used.I'm already using 2 BUO836X cards
on the simpit I'm building.I now would tike to start on the overhead panel.I have no need to connect potentiometers
so I gather the BBI 32 is what I need.Like the BUO836X ,I understand one can connect rotary encoders,rotary switches,push buttons
and toggles to the BBI 32.Now this is where it get's a bit confusing for me.It's possible to connect 11(12 position) rotary
switches to the card using the pcb attachment,why 11?.I've read in the avsim forum that one can connect , say ,12 push button
switches to the pcb and then connect the pcb to on button input on tha card, the card has 32 button inputs so why only 11 rotary
/pcb's?.Also windows only reads 32 inputs from any one controller card ,so how is it possible to connect so many seperate
switches to one card and have windows read them all.I shall be assigning switch functions for the overhead using fsuipc mouse
trapping technique like I did with the mcp,efis etc.Would that be possible to do with all the switches connected through the pcb's
that would be attached to the BBI 32,I don't understand how ,considering, when I assign a function to let's say button #1 on the
BUO836X in fsuipc ,when i press that button it shows me which button i'v pressed ,so how can one button have 12 buttons,
how would fsuipc know which of the 12 buttons i'v pressed, or if I was using a rotary switch, which contact I was on while turning
the switch.do you see where I'm comming from and why Im so confused.hope all that makes sence,
anyone out there?, john.

Biggles2010

10-28-2012, 03:07 PM

As I indicated in my previous post, the main use I see for the BBI 32 card is to provide 32 button or switch inputs, at a reasonable cost. I also pointed out that if you use the BBI rotary switches with this card, each switch will take up as many button positions on the card as you designate for that particular switch. That could be only 2 positions , or it may be up to 12.

For those who have not seen them, the BBI rotary switch is a standard rotary switch with 30 degree indexing, and adjustable with the usual tagged washer. This gives between 2 and 12 positions. The special feature is the small pcb on the base, soldered to all the contacts on the rotary. This pcb has 2 solder pads for the 2 output wires.

If you use 1 BBI rotary switch, set to use 12 positions, you will have 20 free button positions available for other switches. The BBI rotary is connected to the card with only 2 wires, plugged into 1 button position, but it still takes up as many of the 32 buttons as you choose to allocate to that switch.

If you add another BBi rotary switch, set to use 5 positions, you will have 15 free button positions left. And so on.

I should make clear these are my conclusions from my own testing. There may be some magic feature that I have not yet found, but Leo has not responded to my email about this product.

John

tiburon

10-28-2012, 03:27 PM

It works with 45 degree indexing switches as well.

johncor

10-28-2012, 04:15 PM

THANKS GUYS, SO THERE IS NO MAGIC,IT'S JUST A buo836x WITHOUT THE AXIS CONNECTIONS AND THE POSSIBILITY TO SAVE ON SOME WIRE IF YOUR USING ROTARY SWITCHES, AM i CORRECT?jOHN c.

tiburon

10-28-2012, 04:22 PM

There's a key on your keyboard that turns Caps Lock off.:roll:

rwy12

10-30-2012, 11:20 AM

Hi All,
I was planning on buying few of these.
Can you please clarify something.
If I connect the special BB1-12 position rotary switch to the BB1 32,
Are you saying that although you have 2 wires going into the BB1 32,the computer will show 4 postions being used on the BB1 32.
So what happens to the unused BB1 32 sockets-have you coonected anything to these to find if it's possible.
If this is the case than whats the point of buying this ?

Qas

tiburon

10-30-2012, 12:21 PM

Less wires from the rotary, Bodnar product so reliable, dirt cheap.

Biggles2010

10-30-2012, 02:28 PM

Qas,
I agree with tiburon's comments, and I think your query has already been largely covered in previous posts from myself and Ian Sissons.

If you use the BBI 12 position rotary switch from Leo Bodnar, in conjunction with the BBI 32 card, the switch will use up as many of the 32 available buttons as you allocate to that particular switch.

I'm confused by your reference to 4 positions being used, but I assume you mean that you might want to use one or more BBI rotary switches, set to operate 4 buttons each. If so, you could have 8 such rotaries maximum since 8 x 4 = 32.

If you try to connect another button or switch to one of the positions allocated to a BBI rotary, even if there are no wires in that position, you will find that the new button will operate the function allocated to that button position for the rotary. If you then allocate a new function to the new button, this will also be applied to that position on the rotary, replacing it's previous function.

A further point is that the BBI rotary works by providing a single pulse at each switch position. Unlike a normal rotary it does not remain On when each position is selected. So if you use FSUIPC, as most of us do, you cannot allocate seperate On and Off functions to the switch positions. I think this is a limiting factor for using the BBI rotary in a sim.

Having said that, the BBI rotary certainly worked reliably during my experiments, but I cannot at present find a use for it.
The BBI 32 card however, is exactly what I have been waiting for. It has been faultless in testing, and a number of them are going into the new sim.

John

rwy12

10-30-2012, 03:07 PM

Hi John
Thank for the time to reply.I am sorry if I am asking same questions all over again.
I am still confused.
The 4 positions I mentioned refers to the engine starter selector on the 737 ,ground,off,constant and flight.
If I buy the BB1 rotary,will the BB1 32 card show position 1,2,3,4 being used -even though I will have 2 wires going into say position 1 ground and position 1 +ve.
If this is the case than there is no point in buying the rotatry switch at £5.
I thought you only used the 1 position on the BB1 32,and it allowed you to connect more to it.

Many thanks for the review-it has saved me the cost of buying 6 of the BB1 rotary switches.
I already have 4 of the BU0836X .
I think I will just buy the BB1 32 and stick with using more wires-cost of few wires is pennies compared to the rotatry price.
Thank you again.

Qas

ps.I have made a 737 OVH using plywood ,normal toggle switches and 4 BU0836X.Works a treat and all under £350 :D

Biggles2010

10-30-2012, 05:19 PM

Qas,
the BBI rotary would give you 4 positions if you set it to that. The question is whether your sim software is compatible with a single pulse for each position. There is also no useable way of getting an Increase and Decrease function from it.

If the rotary switch is set to give an Increase or Decrease command at any of it's positions, it will always give that same command whenever you pass that position, regardless of the direction of rotation, which we don't usually want.

Think of it as having 4 momentary push switches numbered 1 to 4, one for each position of the switch. When you go from position 1 to position 2 on the rotary, the action would be the same as pressing button 2 momentarily.

Going from position 2 on the rotary, through position 3, to position 4, would have the same effect as pressing button 3 momentarily, then pressing button 4 momentarily. If you rotate the switch in reverse, say from 4 to 1, it will pulse each switch position 3-2-1 as it passes.
Once it has created a switch pulse at any position there is no further circuit connection until the rotary is moved to the next position.

For my new sim I'm using normal rotaries for the overhead and the BBI 32 cards. For the Autobrake I already use Leo's other 3 wire rotary as an axis pot, connected to the 3086X. (thanks to Ian Sissons for his superb instructions on how to do it).

John

rwy12

10-30-2012, 07:36 PM

Hi John
Thank you for the clarification.
I will do the same, use normal rotary with the BB1 32.
Its main attraction for me is the price. With BX0836X the joy stick side is wasted.
For my sim I use LINDA for assignments.It's a very simple project.
I am trying to use LED's with the toggles and the BX0836X.
I have searched google but it's not very clear at the moment.

Qas

stryker7

01-16-2013, 05:25 AM

Information Deleted by user

Hoorf

02-06-2014, 05:47 PM

Sorry for bumping this, but I'm new here and in-process of purchasing a BBI-32 for an autopilot panel I'm making, as soon as Mr. Bodnar gets his latest shipment in from manufacture. The BBI-32 looks very much like the ticket for what I seek: something small to handle 5 rotary encoders and approximately 14 buttons. Also, I have the purchased version of FSUIPC (configurable), so I should have no problems, hopefully. Your forum thread here seems to be rather comprehensive about the experiences you all have had with the BBI-32, as well as the cans and can'ts of the gizmo, so I'm eager to get it and learn more from here.

EDIT: One question...I have several rotary encoders I purchased from eBay, the 20-position type with 3 terminals for the rotary feature and two more terminals for the pushbutton feature (pushing in on the shaft makes a momentary ON connection). Can these encoders be used with the BBI-32 that you know of, or are Mr. Bodnar's encoders proprietary to it (meaning I can't use any encoder except his)? Thanks for any input, I greatly appreciate it!

Biggles2010

02-07-2014, 12:32 PM

I use several BBI-32 cards, all currently connected to buttons and switches allocated through FSUIPC.
Regarding encoders, this card is not limited to only the ones sold by Leo Bodnar, but his site gives the specs required.
He also provides some configuration software.

I suspect your encoders will work just fine. The 3 encoder wires will use 2 sets of slots, (common ground) and the push button a separate button position.

I can confirm that Leo's cards are virtually bombproof and you will be able to experiment without any great risk of damaging the card.

John.

Hoorf

02-11-2014, 03:44 AM

Regarding encoders, this card is not limited to only the ones sold by Leo Bodnar, but his site gives the specs required...

I suspect your encoders will work just fine. The 3 encoder wires will use 2 sets of slots, (common ground) and the push button a separate button position.

I can confirm that Leo's cards are virtually bombproof and you will be able to experiment without any great risk of damaging the card.

Thank you! It answers everything, but sadly, I have to wait awhile before I can get one, even though he just got a whole new shipment in. I saw that the UPS from his place in the UK to my place near Seattle is $32 for one card! OW! I know it's not his fault, but man, that hurts. I just have to save a little more is all, but my understanding is that these boards are the best and are worth every penny. Thanks again, John!

Hoorf

02-27-2014, 07:38 PM

Well, Leo didn't reply to my e-mail, but he must've read it because he just added Royal Mail AirMail to the available shipping options to the US...at a very affordable rate! Very excited, now I can afford one. If you're reading this, thanks, Leo!

Hoorf

04-11-2014, 02:46 PM

wkrp2012

12-23-2014, 06:13 PM

The BBI-32 and rotary switch PCBs arrived, what an excellent set of products! It was worth the wait and all the mac-n-cheese & ramen noodles I ate to make room for it. Looking forward to setting it all up!

Could some be so kind as to post a graphic of how to wire a 45deg rotary switch to the BBI-32? I know its a matrix but it gets confusing quickly. Thanks and Merry Christmas!