The castAR Kickstarter is live!

[geneb]

castAR: the most versatile AR & VR system by Technical Illusions — Kickstarter (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/technicalillusions/castar-the-most-versatile-ar-and-vr-system)

This has the potential to obsolete just about every flight simulation visual system ever made. :D

g.

[Matt Olieman]

Been watching this and is truly amazing, thanks for posting the link Gene.

Matt Olieman

[OmniAtlas]

Jeri developed this while working at valve...then Gabe booted her out because it didn't fit with their vision :(

Looks promising, anyone know how this would work with flightsim?

[jonesthesoftware]

as it uses micro projectors to project the images they will be very dim i would think as the projectors are in the glasses. They also focus at probably 10-12 inches from your eyes. No good for flight sim then. Also requires cable connection from pc. Pity as I would ,love to own something like that suited to. flight sim

[geneb]

Um, no. You might want to read up on castAR before commenting about what it can and cannot do.

They're good from about 18-24" on out. If it wasn't VERY applicable to DIY cockpit builders, I certainly wouldn't have posted a link here.

Using castAR, you can build a 360 degree screen system and with multiple tracker targets, you could have complete 360 degree head tracking, no matter what position you put your head in. This means that you can do bubble canopy airplane cockpits and have a visual system that's up to the task. You won't break the bank either.

For those with a 7n7 cockpit, you can install the retro-reflective material where the windows would go and you're DONE. Skip the kilo-buck projectors, the huge screen, expensive pre-warp software, etc.

g.

[geneb]

Here's how it all started - Jeri also gives a great overview of how castAR works.
CastAR VR / AR System - The 18 Month Story - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc2NQVQK69A)

g.

[jonesthesoftware]

Hi geneb
yup looks like I should have viewed the video on their website before opening my mouth. I hope these guys can bring this development to market it looks awesome.
geoff

[geneb]

Sorry about being harsh - the wet blanket brigade over at flightsim.com left a nasty taste in my mouth. :)

g.

[OmniAtlas]

Um, no. You might want to read up on castAR before commenting about what it can and cannot do.

They're good from about 18-24" on out. If it wasn't VERY applicable to DIY cockpit builders, I certainly wouldn't have posted a link here.

Using castAR, you can build a 360 degree screen system and with multiple tracker targets, you could have complete 360 degree head tracking, no matter what position you put your head in. This means that you can do bubble canopy airplane cockpits and have a visual system that's up to the task. You won't break the bank either.

For those with a 7n7 cockpit, you can install the retro-reflective material where the windows would go and you're DONE. Skip the kilo-buck projectors, the huge screen, expensive pre-warp software, etc.

g.

This might just work for cockpit builders. I watched the video at http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H3HGrclGkIE&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DH3HGrclGkIE

I backed the oculus rift (now sold), but it didn't work too well especially if you needed to read maps. It only projects where there is reflective material?

only a few more days before funding ends, I am seriously considering backing this.

[geneb]

Yes, anywhere you have retro-reflective material, you'll see the image. You should check out the Technical Illusions YouTube page here: http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVauXUXwm5-yEVwVZZewoiA/videos

There's a ton of great info in there. Also check out the episode of Triangulation that Jeri & Rick did - http://twit.tv/show/triangulation/124 Lot of great info there as well.

I'm going to be refitting one of my Me-109F/X cockpits for use with the castAR so I can be ready in April. :D
g.

[OmniAtlas]

The triangulation show was very informative - 60 mins in jeri talks about the application in flight sim!

Reserving my copy now!

[Perik]

Nice OmniAtlas.

I’ve opted for two glasses myself a couple of weeks ago and I really look forward to test the devices.
Not as soon as Gene though, but more like September next year.

I have a few questions still “in the air”…
One will be about extending the FOV which initially seems to end up around 65 degrees.

Anyway I think this will be a great technology for our hobby.

[geneb]

castAR will certainly make DIY cockpits not only more realistic, but a lot easier to do great visual systems with.

My next from-scratch cockpit is likely going to be a Grob 115. With castAR, the visual system for a bubble canopy is just as simple as it is for something like a Cessna 172.

I know there's a Cessna 172 builder on this forum that's using a real cockpit for his project - castAR would be a perfect fit for him.

g.

[OmniAtlas]

Yes, perhaps the fov could be extended with multiple projectors? Let's say 4 on the glasses?

[geneb]

It's really not necessary.

g.

[OmniAtlas]

Don't you still need/ want peripheral cues? e.g. FOV > 120 degrees.

BTW, this pico cam they have setup has got me thinking -- if they have it down to such a lost cost, can't I just buy 6 to 10 of these, mount them on a cockpit shell and edge blend?

[geneb]

I don't know how much peripheral vision is available, if there's any at all. However, I think that even if there isn't any, it brings so much to the table that it's not much of a loss.

A friend of mine has built a wonderful 737 cockpit shell. He's space-constrained, so doing a "great" visual system just isn't possible. With castAR, he doesn't need the space. He can just put retro-reflective "windows" into the existing window frames and he's done. With the tracking target located in the center, the display he sees will automatically be offset to the correct position
. Someone sitting in the FO seat will have a similar offset, but to the other side.

It's my understanding that the current generation of castAR will deliver a 2560x720 (800?) display and if they're short throw projectors you could get a pretty big image in a small space.

Contribute the Kickstarter and get a pair. You'll like it. :D

* This is assuming that someone writes an interface for FSX or other sims to deal with the castAR. Since TrackIR has developed a "generic" method of doing this, I see zero issue in doing the same with castAR.

g.

[OmniAtlas]

I have invested in the 2nd tier glasses with the VR and real AR shades included.

Its going to be a long wait!

[iwik]

Hi All,
Yes I too am tempted and will go for the Pro kit.
Gene: Have you had a go with system yourself. If so whats your gut feeling compared to say the Oculus product.
Thanks for keeping us in the loop.

Les

[geneb]

I haven't had the opportunity to check it out in person.

I've avoided the Rift due to the low resolution and the limited tracking. That and not being able to see the cockpit I'm in basically means I'm flying with a joypad, which would just suck.

That being said, I think the castAR is going to be the superior product.

1. The head tracking is sub-millimeter and uses IR leds instead of gyros. This gives you a full 6-DOF.
2. The IR tracking module design will be released. It's electronically very simple and inexpensive (5 IR LEDs and a .70c uController)
3. at 2560x720, you'll get a good experience if you use it for normal computer work. You wouldn't need multiple monitors, just enough RR fabric to cover the space you want to use.
4. They've got a VR clip on that will give you a similar effect as the Rift provides...

g.

[OmniAtlas]

The rift is terrible for flight simming (I had one).

Cant see your maps, or nd/pfd or controls...and it made me really nauseas.

[petersm99]

Hello OmniAtlas,

Could not answer earlier,

Sounds to be a very promising system that I will most definitely keep my eye on.
While I will most probably start my cockpit with one HD projector for the time being, I hope this new technology will develop into something really useable. For myself I would have to be able to see, feel and experience the system to be fully convinced. During the years the only visual system so far that really convinced me were the CAE fully collimated visual systems that are unachievable for home use. The CastAR systems specs will be the determining factors regarding my interest in the final product, how will peripheral vision appear, how will resolution versus refresh rate versus head movement appeal to me, etc.

Best Regards,
Marc

[Sammy-E]

Wow. Nice to find this stuff. Very tempted. Not sure which version to sign up for, the VR clip does not make much sense for flightsim, you cant see your maps, controls can you?
Eric

Edit: watched the triangulation show and convinced now. Guys, this will be great. Ordered the starter package, impulsive? Yeah maybe, I am no gambler, this feels like skipping expensive projectors or multiple screens. Lets hope and see!

[OmniAtlas]

The key is the fov from the 2 projectors. It is about 110 degrees I believe.

If this is adequate to give the effect of speed and cues from the periphery then we have a winner.

Any of you kickstart the 900 early bird special? :)

[iwik]

Thanks Gene,
Just pulled the trigger on the Pro Package, after watching the Triangulation Video.
Les

[Sammy-E]

Any of you kickstart the 900 early bird special? :)
Ha! No, that was a bit too much :)
forgot to thank the poster for letting us know about this.. Thanks!

[iwik]

Sammy,
Maybe Gene is, he wrote he was readying a sim for April.

Les

[Perik]

Yes, I’m sure Gene is one of the early adaptors – lucky guy:D

I had some thinking to clear up things for myself.

Do we actually need 3D / stereoscopic view as long as we talks about external visuals.
Our external objects are mostly at long distance so the 3D effect is almost nonexistent.
For me so far the main advantage with castAR is that you get your personal, precisely
positioned external view and same does your co-pilot – his personal view. No more crab-effect!!!!
as the images comes from your head position and not from a fixed position on the roof of your rig.

So the perfect match for our glasses would be to have the two beamers mounted to produce two images
side by side. As a side effect we would get a FOV of 130 degrees which should give a
great peripheral view. We could even run without the shutters and glass frame – just
mechanics for holding the beamers and tracker. We could even increase the number of beamers....

OK - this is for those that have a complete shell and internals.
For those who want/need a combination you must go for the 3D glass setup.

Just some thoughts from up north....where did I miss :-)

[OmniAtlas]

What software will we be using to create this effect and integrate with FSX/P3D? I assume you want to fix the Y-AXIS and we are only interested in the X so we can look around.

[Perik]

Again thinking load….
What we need: Nothing special other than the tracker software which should be more or less
the same as TrackIR has done and already mention by Gene. It shouldn’t be too difficult
to code for the right people.

This will give FSX a 6DOF feedback position of your head so you can move around as you like.
What remains for someone to look at is how fast and precise the camera control in the FSX,
Xplane, Flightgear etc. is (Gene can maybe talk about the latter) – does it cope with the speed
of castAR tracking. Nothing is worse than a lagging tracking system.

For the image part of it, I think it goes like this.
The current beamers run at 1280x720 each. The “Monitor” will present itself as a 2560 x 720
display in Windows. Two ways to produce the 3D / Stereoscopic signal – either put the streams
for left and right eyes side by side or horizontal interleaved. Both are supported.
The hardware up at the glasses decodes and sends to the beamers accordingly. Interface is HDMI or DVI.

For 3D setup:
We need to precisely rotate, drag and size two camera views aligned in the same way as the beamers.
Easiest way will be to position the streams for Left and Right side by side in this 2560 wide “frame buffer”.

For 2D setup:
Same as above but two equal images – one for each eye/beamer or just one image but stretched to cover
the full width of 2560 where the odd / even pixels are going to the left / right beamer accordingly.

Generel comment:
The breakthrough technology with castAR is as I see it three things;

1. Very small, low weight and affordable beamers/ projectors – thx to the mobile industry.
2. Discovering the Retro reflective material properties.
3. A superfast 3D tracking / positioning system.

Combine this with two bright people - Jeri and Rich, then you have a “killer” device.

So for those who would like to experiment you could try the following 2D setup using
TrackIR and a couple of decent 300W “beamers”. Here you don't even need the retro material. :mrgreen:

[geneb]

1. "CAE style display" has been done. By myself and Wayne Ledzian. :D It CAN be done for home use, just not without running afoul of the active patent that Rockwell-Collins has on the technique we used. There's one other DIY one out there that's currently in the assembly stage. That one is 737 sized. :)

There's no reason to lock any axis OmniAtlas. That would just be limiting yourself. :) For example if I were to build a Cessna 172 cockpit, it sure would be nice to be able to hang my head out the window, or at least get close to the virtual window pane. With castAR and enough tracking targets, you can actually do that.

I suspect the latency on the castAR is nearly undetectable based on what I've learned. You figure that the heavy lifting of the actual tracking is done (currently) on an FPGA that lives on the castAR itself. (For the production version, it'll be a custom ASIC.) The on-board controller works out the position and send that as a 72 byte packet over USB to the host. I'm not sure what the frequency is, but for some reason a period of 6ms seems to stick in my head.

The tracking targets consist of five IR LEDs. Four arranged in a square, with the 5th offset diagonally towards the center from the lower left LED. The #5 LED does two things - it blinks in the code assigned to that target and tells the tracker which LED is the lower left one. They're going to be releasing the modulation scheme and specs for the tracking targets so we'll be able to build as many as we like. The #5 LED is controllable by a cheap, sub $1 micro-controller.

I did opt for the April developer version. My Visa card cries at night because of this. :)

My first efforts will be to integrate castAR support into FlightGear. Once that's done, I'll look at what needs to be done in order to do the same for FSX/P3D. I'd like to get it working with the IL2 games as well.

There's a new game coming called Dragons of Elanthia (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/simutronics/dragons-of-elanthia) that will have castAR support out of the box. When I saw this game (it's basically a dragon-borne air-combat game), I pictured a small cube made of RR material, with a saddle of some kind in the middle of it. I instantly went, "yup, gotta get me some of that!" and contributed to THAT KS as well. If you can, contribute to their KS as well. It looks like it'll be an awesome game.

g.

[OmniAtlas]

Perhaps since tracking targets are so low cost we will be able to buy them direct -- 1 tracker every 110 degrees?

[geneb]

As far as I know, Technical Illusions will be selling trackers by themselves. I know that I'm going to look into producing them in small batches for my own use and I can make extras.

If it were me, I'd put tracking targets every 90 degrees and wherever else it looks like they might come in handy. :)

g.

[OmniAtlas]

Where would you mount your trackers inside the cockpit?

The other question I have is -- how effective would CastAR be on a curve screen? All the demoed videos (even the flight simulator ones) were done with flat reflective material.

[geneb]

You can mount the trackers where ever you like, just as long as castAR can "see" them.

I suspect that castAR will perform the same as any other projector against a curved screen - it all depends on how deep the curve is.

g.

[OmniAtlas]

$900,000 stretch goal and you won't need the trackers! Gyroscope included!

[OmniAtlas]

Looks like the final stretch goal has been met. Here is an example they posted up with a cockpit with surround visuals (and all this for less then $200!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FhdqMpTgSk

[Sammy-E]

Nice! that is the idea why I went into this kickstart.

[geneb]

Ah, you beat me to it OmniAtlas! :)

g.

[birdyguy]

Has anyone installed castAR in thier cockpits yet?

[iwik]

Not been released yet Ed.
Les

[geneb]

Much to my disgust, no. Mine were supposed to be here in April. :( g.

[OmniAtlas]

It doesn't really help that their kickstarter website isn't regularly updated. Still waiting for mine as well.

[jackwall]

Coming late to this post .... [I take some time away and look what happens :D]

I look forward to the feedback from the early adopters. Thanks in advance.