Delco Carousel IV-A INS CDU/MSU

[Ravamar]

Hello,

after years of research I finally own a real CDU and MSU of the Carousel INS....and I want to try to connect them to Microsoft Flight Sim.

I'm looking for technical material related to the CDU and MSU, maintenance manuals, electrical diagrams, pictures of the inside of the CDU/MSU and experiences from persons who already tried to open up a CDU and took the challenge of converting it.

So if you have anything to share I'd appreciate getting as much information as possible.

Thank you very much in advance!

Marco

[Avro748]

If it's the Carousel IV-A, then you might have some luck with this addon (http://www.simufly.com/ins/).

It is a very realistic representation of the INS, including drift and an accurate alignment process. I don't think it has DME updating, but it still does the job better than any other INS simulation on the market. You can probably use FSUIPC to help interface the real unit with the Simufly Unit.

As to the technical side of things, I can't really help you. However, someone here (http://l1011project.blogspot.com/) might be able to. These guys have found various ways of gutting all sorts of real avionics and wiring the components to interface cards. The posts of that type are in a series of articles called "avionics bending." You can also contact them directly for more detailed information.

[Ravamar]

Hello Avro748,

Thanks for the L1011 link, very interesting, I'll try to ask them.

> I don't think it has DME updating

Yes, it has DME Updating, Manual Position Update, TripleMix-ing, Eradication, every functionality is correctly modeled. I well know because I wrote it :-)

Once again thank you!

[Avro748]

Wow! You created the Civa Gauge? That's amazing, I use it with all my long range classic aircraft. If you still have the source code, you could probably have each of the digits on the displays be written to an Offset, as well as the lights. I think I saw someone on FSDeveloper who did something along those lines with a C Gauge.

[Ravamar]

> You created the Civa Gauge? That's amazing

Thanks, it has been a very long and hard process (it took about 3 YEARS :shock: before first release was ready to be published)

> I use it with all my long range classic aircraft

I hope you enjoy it! :-)

> If you still have the source code, you could probably have each...

Sure, I have it!

And yes, I'm already at work modifying it to make possible to attach external, hardware units (as well as custom gauges, and 3d gauges to be used in VC)

I'm presently non yet using the real CDU/MSU but instead I built a prototype (Arduino+small keyboard+LCD display) to make 100% sure everything works, tune performance and so on.

It will not be "offset based" but I'm simply extending the already existing CIVA SDK, which is shared memory based.

There is quite a lot of work to be done and I have so little spare time to dedicate so it will be a long journey...

[flightpanels]

Hello Marco,

are you progressing on the CDU? I am disassembling one as well, but before spending weeks on reverse tracing - did you get hold of wiring diagrams, schematics and such?

Jörg

[Ravamar]

Hello Jörg,

no, unfortunately not, not yet at least! I had very limited time available :roll:
I initially briefly started looking at the MSU but I encountered the first problem.
To access the two lamps (NAV READY and BAT) dismounting the front panel is required.
To do that you first have to remove the Mode Selector Knob...and I was unable.
It looks like it has one or two allen screws but I was not able to remove them, I broke many keys :-(
I fear it was never removed and since it's dated 1976...well...after 40 years...
Before applying some kind of brute force I tried to find out any kind of maintenance manual/info but got none so far.
I was thinking about substituting the two lamps with LEDs because it the goal it do drive CDU+MSU with an Arduino or a Raspberry PI, then it would be nice to have everything working at 5 or 3,3 Volts while I think (not sure) the power supplied was 24 Volts.
Apart from the knob related problem, I had the chance to open the MSU from the back panel and there is no electronic there, just the multi-selector knob, and wires. So finding out what is wired to which pin (on the back side connector) shouldn't be a long work. Here a pic of the inside view:
http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11712&stc=1
Do you also have the MSU or CDU only?
Anyway I'm sure I'll have some time next winter! :-)

[Ravamar]

Here is another image showing the backside connector.

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11713&stc=1

[flightpanels]

I have the MSU reverse engineered - switches, lamps and wires, easy as you say.
On my MSU the Bat/Nav lights are accessible from the front. Only replacing a backlight bulb requires disassembling the front panel.
The CDU is another beast, a Component Maintenance Manual would be a dream!
But I am getting a grip. My actual plan is to reverse trace connections from switches and seven segment displays to motherboard, then design new PCBs to drive all from the mobo connectors.
Jackpilot said to have some diagrams, but seems dormant at this time.

[flightpanels]

I have the MSU reverse engineered - switches, lamps and wires, easy as you say.
On my MSU the Bat/Nav lights are accessible from the front, you can unscrew them. Only replacing a backlight bulb requires disassembly of the front panel.

The CDU is another beast, a Component Maintenance Manual would be a dream!
But I am getting a grip. My actual plan is to reverse trace connections from switches and seven segment displays to motherboard, then design new PCBs to drive all from the mobo connectors.
Jackpilot said to have some diagrams, but seems dormant at this time.

[Ravamar]

> I have the MSU reverse engineered - switches, lamps and wires, easy as you say.

Are you willing to share the info you retrieved? Which pin connects what? It would be extremely useful!

> On my MSU the Bat/Nav lights are accessible from the front.

By unscrewing the transparent red and green plastic "covers"?
I fear I could damage them...

> Only replacing a backlight bulb requires disassembling the front panel.
Did you managed to detach the mode selector knob?

Question: Did you try to light up the bulbs? How many Volts? And...AC or DC? Do you think they could be powered up from an Arduino?

> My actual plan is to reverse trace connections from switches and seven segment displays to motherboard, then design
> new PCBs to drive all from the mobo connectors. Jackpilot said to have some diagrams, but seems dormant at this
> time.

Interesting! But are you planning to power bulbs with a separate power supply?
I was also looking into the possibility to take out the "primitive" 7 segment displays and substitute them with real 7 segment displays but there are problems with commas/apostrophe and the right hand N/S and E/W "icons"...

NOTE: I don't know if we are actually abusing of this forum. If so I'd have no problem creating a new "Hardware" forum on Simufly.com. Please (admin?) let us know!

[flightpanels]

A bulb is agnostic to AC / DC, either will do. Nowaydays a DC voltage is convenient with switch mode power supplies. IIRC the Bat/Ready bulbs are 12 V at least. Test by slowly increasing a power supply measuring Volts and Amps. Backlighting is 5V for sure.

Yeah, you unscrew the red and green plastic covers. The knob came lose by using a Inbus/Hex allen wrench. Many of these screws are multispline, successfully destroyed by people inserting inappropriate Inbus/Hex allen. In that case your only resort is careful drilling out.

The seven seg displays are not multiplexed, I guess each bulb to oprate at 4 - 5 V 20 mA. Yeah, you need a real 2 A power supply here.

[Ravamar]

Hello Jörg,

so, from what I understood, you are willing to retain all the bulbs (those simulating the 7 segment displays).
What about if a bulb breaks, how do you fix it?

My plans are to substitute everything (all bulbs) with LEDs and/or real 7-segment displays.
If possible, of course :D
I want (would like) to have everything working at 5V. Big problem will be to put LEDs inside illuminated CDU keys...

Questions for you:

a) Are you going to use it with MSFS or xPlane?
b) What are you planning to put inside to drive everything? RPi? Arduino? Custom electronics?

Thank you,
Marco

[Ravamar]

Jörg,

here (http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a264521.pdf) there are some (very few) details about CIVA INS electrical supply. Hope this helps...