Instructor station

[jeehell]

Hello,

There has been quite some demand for an IOS for some time now.

Some of you are probably aware a commercial version version of my software is available.
This version allows use in a commercial environment, and is obviously payware and rather on the expensive side.

I have one major problem with a free or low cost version of the IOS, which is the evident self-harming fact a lot of commercial users will use that low cost version for a commercial venue (this is already happening with the current freeware version).


I am currently considering launching a such low cost version of the IOS.
Of course, it will have less features as the full commercial one. For what it's worth, the commercial one brings enough features to reach EASA FNPT2/MCC level. This is not something I want to be possible without my consent on a low cost version of the software.

So the aim of this topic is to retrieve your feedback on what kind of pricing would be acceptable for my core users.

I would like to give you a detailed feature set, but this is not yet available.
It will have a bit of all systems (so of course an engine fail, of course some HYD fail, ELEC etc..).

So, you can throw here some ideas etc... Does not mean I will implement that, but I will of course consider all interesting options.

I also appreciate your honesty in terms of what you would be willing to pay for this kind of payware software (it will NOT be free, though the free version will stay as is).

Best regards
Jean Luc

[OmniAtlas]

This is fantastic news and something many of your users have desired - thank you for the consideration;

I am sure your many users here will provide you with some constructive feedback.

[Knoepflesdruecker]

Hi Jean-Luc,

first of all, I think it's a great idea to provide an IOS!!

If we consider the following:
- JL FMGS is a high quality software
- JL FMGS is freeware

Then I think it would be absolutetly fair for the users to pay at least a minimum of 200 Euros for an instructor station. Most people don't know what it means to develop software and how complex it can be. If we compare to the B737 party - they have to buy commercial FMGS software for around 1000 Euros...

Less than 100 is absolutely no option! My feeling is at 249 / 299 ... still very cheap, but also not too much so more people may consider to buy it.

Best regards,
Marco

[tcane]

Hi Jean-Luc,

first, big thank you for your continue hard work on your FMGS System, that has become a really really great software over time and I use your software since 5 Years!!?!!
For me it's a shame that commercial simulators that make a lot of money do not want to pay anything for your commercial version. They should be ashamed. But its the today "Stinginess makes awesome thinking".
For me personally is a Instructor Station not important, because the most time I fly Online on IVAO without any Engine Fire etc. ;) but some other Features would be interesting. Depend what is integrated in your Instructor Station I will pay between 100 and 250€.
Nice Features and Ideas:
*Engine Fire Actions
*Doors Open/Close
*Moving the Aircraft on the Ground (to another Gate for example)
*Approach Training
*Hydraulic Fail
*I do not know if that's feasible: But an implemented control for GSX would be terrific. (Maybe it´s a bit easier with GSX Level 2) and its also not so interesting for the commercial users here.
*A world map on which the flight plan, occupied ATC stations (IVAO, VATSIM) and the flown route is shown. Possibly also other aviators from the respective network. Garnished with a cream dab AIRAC which can be updated via Navigraph. :D

This would be only some ideas and maybe I shoot a little bit over the target. Sorry for that.
Looking forward to your Version and your next FMGS Updates.
All the best
Florian

[imported_Suggy]

Perhaps one thing that’s worth noting is that fs-flightcontrol already provides limited failures for your software as well as a host of other nice features for a reasonable price. It also provides an iOS/Android connection to your smartphone/tablet. From my own personal perspective, a cut down instructor station would be in competition with fs-flightcontrol.

https://www.fs-flightcontrol.com/en/

Kind regards,
Darren

[Fritz]

At the moment the interest is not very big on my side, because I always have a problem that caused by myself or because something is unstable in my simulator. If my system ran absolutely stable then it would be something else. But that's just a snapshot.

This instructor station should offer the possibility to generate problems automatically. It would otherwise always needed a second person who sets the problem like a professional training. It would not be so demanding if I set the problems myself. I would already know then what to expect.

[spiliot]

I do not need an instructor station but I'd be willing to pay something in the range of 100 euros as a recognition of JL's efforts up to now for the FMGS freeware version.

[iwik]

I do not need an instructor station but I'd be willing to pay something in the range of 100 euros as a recognition of JL's efforts up to now for the FMGS freeware version.

I second that.

[dufour01]

An instruction station would be a fantastic add-on to your software package. A price of EUR > 200 and < 500 would seem justified, depending on the feature set.

Depending on the outcome, one possibility could be to offer IOS Features in Tiers, i.e.
- Base Feature Set - for EUR xxx
- Advanced Feature Set - for EUR yyy
- Even More Advanced (Full) Feature Set - for EUR zzz

An even more flexible (but also complicated) approach would be to allow users buying additional features on a feature-by-feature basis.

[OmniAtlas]

If we compare to the B737 party - they have to buy commercial FMGS software for around 1000 Euros...

Less than 100 is absolutely no option! My feeling is at 249 / 299 ... still very cheap, but also not too much so more people may consider to buy it.

Best regards,
Marco

The competition is at 1500 euro; my feeling is there should be a charge even for the 'basic' FMGS software as an incentive for Jean Luc to further develop his software, and perhaps even on a ?full time basis.

[capt_pero]

The competition is at 1500 euro; my feeling is there should be a charge even for the 'basic' FMGS software as an incentive for Jean Luc to further develop his software, and perhaps even on a ?full time basis.
I talked to a lot of Homecockpit Builders and they started the project because of this high quality FMGS Software and assuption that it stays freeware. Therefore I am happy that Jean Luc is willing to continue this way. As a developer I could fully understand if there is a need to charge for it.

The price of an operation station depends on the features. As I am not running a Homecockpit to train 3rd parties I would just use it once in a while which would pay less then a tool I am using in every day operation. :-)

Whould it make sense to create an payware EFB for "Home Use" which contains tabs like

- Performance calculation
- moving map
- possibility to read pdf from dropbox
- integration of websites (for Navigraph Charts, IVAO, VATSIM and stuff)
- failure handling of common issues (like you mentioned)
- Approach trainer tab: would contain easy approach training features like 5, 10 nm final, e.g.

A combination from EFB and Instructor station which differentiates from the existing payware instructor station.

[OmniAtlas]

I talked to a lot of Homecockpit Builders and they started the project because of this high quality FMGS Software and assuption that it stays freeware. Therefore I am happy that Jean Luc is willing to continue this way. As a developer I could fully understand if there is a need to charge for it.

The price of an operation station depends on the features. As I am not running a Homecockpit to train 3rd parties I would just use it once in a while which would pay less then a tool I am using in every day operation. :-)



My issue Captain Pero is that cockpit builders are willing to spend thousands of dollars on their hardware but they don't want to spend that amount of money on the software.

The software is the 'engine' of the simulation - without accurate system modelling the flight simulator and all your hardware might as well be garbage.

Its like putting a Hummer engine in a Tesla...kind of defeats the purpose :)

[Fritz]

My issue Captain Pero is that cockpit builders are willing to spend thousands of dollars on their hardware but they don't want to spend that amount of money on the software.

The software is the 'engine' of the simulation - without accurate system modelling the flight simulator and all your hardware might as well be garbage.

Its like putting a Hummer engine in a Tesla...kind of defeats the purpose :)

Your statement is not entirely correct. I use JeeHell FMGS and have followed his thread for many years. Until today JeeHell did not want to have any money from non-commercial users. I'm glad that JeeHell enjoys this hobby and let us participate without having to pay for it. We can invest this saved money for the software in hardware and thus enjoy the hobby even more.

If you have not been born rich then you have to work hard for your money. If you have a family then you have to share it in addition. I worked additionally and saved money to be able to afford those expensive hardware. However, I would understand if JeeHell one day expects an amount for his work, since he has put a lot of effort into his software. Not to mention the support he has been providing for many years. I am impressed and very grateful for his work.

[FwFreak]

Hi JL!

I also would be willing to pay for more functionality. But I would prefer a Payware Version of the FMGS itself instead of a Payware Instructor Station to get access to some additional features. I think some of us are using different Instructor Station like from Luis Gordo, FS-FlightControl or the WideFS solution by Martin.
I'm also working on a combined solution for Time & Weather control, Ground Operations, Fuel & Payload setup, failures and an easy (touch) access to third party sim menus (Pro-ATC, GSX, SODE, etc).

So I think for that/us (hobby) devs it would be great to get a direct access to the features (with an API/SDK or through FSUIPC), of course only when using the payed version of your FMGS.


PS: with reading this topic I remembered, that I haven't answered your responce to my request two month ago. Sorry for that, I can understand your point of view.


Best regards

Karsten

[tcane]

Hi Jean-Luc,
Have you already made a decision?

Regards
Florian

[Beaufort]

As I fly my Sim nearly only online in VATSIM, there is no priority for me to have an Instructor Station, as I normally won‘t produce failures while flying online. One can do it there from time to time, but the online network is installed to produce a normal environment close to reality. And I extremely rarely have a guest in my Sim, I run and fly it alone, so I only could use an automatic failure generator from time to time.
But I surely world buy it in a range of about 200 €, even to only honor JL‘s work for us as non commercial users.
An interesting feature for me would be load and fuel. For flight planning, there are existing good tools. I use PFPX for planning and TopCat for performance calculation, the advantage is, that PFPX calculates with the defined load and transfers it to TopCat, which can transfer fuel and load to the sim via FSUIPC. For a long time I had to add weight to the „trimming tanks“ of A320 FMGS manually thereafter, what was not very comfortable. Since some months TopCat does not switch these tanks to „0“ any more, I don‘t know why, but it seems to solve the problem. But as I am not sure, if that works really correct, it would be an advantage, if fuel and load, with which the planning tools calculate (in my case PFPX and TopCat), could be transferred to an Instructor Station, which correctly configures A320 FMGS.
Sure the most comfortable solution would be planning like in PFPX (with real weather and CFMU-Validation) and performance calculation like in TopCat and loading all-in-one in an Instructor Station. But I think, that is not what JL wants to do (and to be honest: it is not necessary to do that) and sure one could not expect something like that together with an Instructor Station for only 200 €.
Weather is not a point of interest for me as I only fly (online) with real weather from Active Sky.

[Mitch95]

Hello,
About TopCat calculation, you can look at this :
http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/showthread.php?t=32110&page=3
Post Nr 25.
I've not been using my sim since April 2018 because of other reasons...
But before April, I used this flight model produced by Totom in TopCat software, and all was working fine about fuel calculations...
Hope this will help...
Regards,
Michel

[jeehell]

Hi Jean-Luc,
Have you already made a decision?

Regards
Florian
Not yet.
I still have a lot to ponder (what features to put in, distribution, etc...). If something is to be released, it might not be before 2019.