TCAS for online flying not displaying

[mgrant]

Hi, Please forgive me if i have posted in the wrong forum, however I have been going round in circles for the past couple of days trying to get my PM PFD to display on-line aircraft, when i disconnect from Vatsim and change the settings to input AI traffic in FSx it works fine, but when i connect and remove all the AI traffic i cant see any on-line traffic on my PFD. The radar in FSINN works fine and picks up all the traffic but what ever i do it just wont inject traffic in to my PFD. Do i need trafficinfo for this to work or AI Bridge?
I am using FSINN with FSX, PFD is build 446

All the best
Mark

[Bob Reed]

Afraid I can't help you with FSX problems, but I thought TCAS was all internal now in PM. We need someone else to chime in here.

[Trevor Hale]

Bob,

It has been a while but I am trying to remember.... Right There is a little program called "AIBRIDGE" that you need to run in order to get Vatsim traffic on your PM ND. It is the same little thing you need to run in order to get Any online traffic to appear on any aircraft tcas in flightsim.

Download AI Bridge run it when you have connected to vatsim and away you go.

Best regards,

Trev

[mgrant]

HI Guys, Thanks for your input, A slight update, AIBridge does not work either in the format that comes with FSINN or its standalone counterpart, the problem seems to do with the way FSINN operates within FSX, thats what i do know, how to solve it remains a mystery for now. Is anyone else using FSX, FSINN and PM software that could tell me if theirs works? Please...... http://www.mcdu.com/forum/images/smiles/Blue_Colorz_PDT_30.gif

[Trevor Hale]

Sorry I am not running FSX, I didn't know.

[Bob Reed]

Have you asked at support@projectmagenta.com ? And I am pretty sure AIBridge is no longer needed as I am not running it in FS9 and I get VATSIM traffic no problem. What is FSINN I have not heard of this. Do you have FSUIPC loaded?

[mgrant]

HI BOB, FSINN is another Vatsim Client oposed to SB3, as i am running FSX SB3 is not compatible so im forced down the route of FSINN. As fo the asking support its not realy a PM problem but ill fire a mail off now. Thanks
Mark.

[mgrant]

Found this on Peter's forum. Case closed then! Thanks Microsoft.....:mad:



<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3 width="90%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>fsflyer wrote:</TD></TR><TR><TD class=quote>I have mentioned this in another forum, apparently this would be a better place to ask. I have been using FSUIPC, WideFS, and AiBridge in FS2004 to display multiplayer traffic, weather, and a number of networked applications. I have purchased FSUIPC4, WideFS7 for FSX, but nothing seems to work in Multiplayer. WideFS shows as connected, but no traffic shows up. I do not see myself or other multiplayer users in your Traffic utility, nor are there any other applications which work.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

In FS2004 and before the only way Multiplayer (as opposed to AI) traffic showed in FSUIPC's TCAS tables was by something like AIBridge, or, I think, the later versions of Ivap and Squawkbox, injecting the data into those tables as well as injecting the multiplayer aircraft details themselves into FS via the published MP interface.

Without something actually providing the data on the MP aircraft, FSUIPC doesn't know about them. Its tables are populated by facilities in FS (and FSX in this case) to read details about AI aircraft.

As far as I'm aware, there is not yet an SDK for FSX multiplayer, which is certainly different to previous versions, so I don't know how it is possible that you are currently using add-on preograms which generate MP aircraft. However, if they can do it then they can certainly inject the details into FSUIPC4, because that interface I present has not changed.

I'm not sure what you mean by "but nothing seems to work in Multiplayer. WideFS shows as connected" -- WideFS really has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with multiplayer. In fact I've never done any programming for multiplayer at all. I know nothing about it.

<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3 width="90%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>Quote:</TD></TR><TR><TD class=quote>Perhaps AiBridge needs updating.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Are you actually trying to use the FS2004 version of AIBridge? I wouldn't have thought that would work -- doesn't it depend upon the MP interface to FS? That is entirely different in FSX I think.

I have seen some statements that say that Microsoft will not be opening up Multiplayer for use in the way it has been used in the past. Aren't the Squawkbox and Ivap and FSInn writers having to program the aircraft injection for FSX via Simconnect, creating them effectively as AI aircraft? Take a look at the various websites and check the news. I've only looked at the FScopilot/FSinn site, and that seems to confirm this.

If that is true then all those "ex-MP" aircraft will show up through FSUIPC because they will look like AI aircraft. In fact they will mix with AI aircraft unless you turn the traffic right down on the sliders.

Let me know what you find out please. It isn't an area I can afford to spend much time on at the moment, too much else to do I'm afraid.
Thanks.

Regards

Pete

[Peter Dowson]

Found this on Peter's forum. Case closed then! Thanks Microsoft.....:mad:

Er .. what do you mean by this? The stuff you quote merely implies that if FSInn or SB3 or whatever are working with FSX, then either they are injecting the additional aircraft as AI aircraft (instead of MP), or they have managed to solve the multiplayer puzzle without an FSX MP SDK.

In the former case, since FSUIPC4 receives, through SimConnect, data on all AI aircraft, these will automatically appear in the TCAS tables.

In the latter case, it is still up to the injecting program to use the FSUIPC interface provided to inject the MP aircraft data into those tables, as it was in FS2004 and FS2002. That interface is unchanged, as I said in the bits you quoted.

Do you actually SEE the other aircraft in FSX? Are they listed in the FSX Traffic Explorer? If so, are they AI or MP? Did you check?

I think you should be directing your questions to the FSInn or SB3 support folks rather than make assumptions like this.

Regards

Pete

[mgrant]

HI Pete, That's why im not a programmer not enough intelligence, and no i didnt look. brain in gear, pause for thought then type.... Thanks and apologies, no offence intended.

All the best
Mark

[Peter Dowson]

HI Pete, That's why im not a programmer not enough intelligence, and no i didnt look. brain in gear, pause for thought then type.... Thanks and apologies, no offence intended.

None taken, no need to apologise, I was only trying to clarify the situation as far as I know it.

But as one who has never tried either multiplayer or on-line flying, I am still puzzled to know the answers. i.e. do you actually SEE the other aircraft in FSX? Are they listed in the FSX Traffic Explorer? If so, are they AI or MP? Can you tell?

Regards

Pete

[mgrant]

do you actually SEE the other aircraft in FSX? Are they listed in the FSX Traffic Explorer? If so, are they AI or MP? Can you tell?

Regards

Pete

HI Pete, Yes i can see the other aircraft in fsx they just dont show up on the PM tcas.

Traffic Explorer screen shot attached,

http://www.mark1million.talktalk.net/images/traffi2.jpg

[Peter Dowson]

HI Pete, Yes i can see the other aircraft in fsx they just dont show up on the PM tcas.

Traffic Explorer screen shot attached,

http://www.mgrant.info/traffic.htm

Don't see it though. Sorry. Can you find out from that what sort of aircraft they are? AI or MP?

Does FSX switch to MP mode when you fly on-line?

Please also check the FSUIPC4 log file. There's a bug in FSX which causes it to stop sending stuff to SimConnect clients when MP mode is entered. It should be fixed in the SP1 update. All recent versions of FSUIPC4 (current is 4.08x) try to reconnect when this occurs, but whether they then miss AI/MP aircraft notifications I don't know.

Perhaps you could let me know what the FSInn/SB tech support folks say when you've asked them what's going on here. Particularly ask them if they are AI or MP aircraft.

One thing does occur to me. It is just possible that they create the other player's aircraft as other objects, not specifically aircraft. They may do this because that way there is less simulation stuff for them to worry about. FSUIPC will only read aircraft data from SimConnect, not other objects.

The Traffic Explorer should allow you to work all this out I think.

Regards

Pete

[mgrant]

Pete, I have AI turned off as not to confuse as i do most of my flying online so they are all MP, i read some where treat fsx cant turn off AI traffic when you are online so its easier to just disable it before you start.
This is part of the log file, i dont really know what i am looking for.

1766 LogOptions=00000001
1766 SimConnect_Open succeeded: proceeding to initialise interface!
12500 Running in "Microsoft Flight Simulator X", Version: 10.0.60905.0 (SimConnect: 2.0.60905.0)
86531 SimStart Event: Initialising SimConnect data requests
86531 FSUIPC Menu entry added

As for objects ill have to check with the guys at FSINN, i think my bet is on the bug you mentioned..

Thanks again
Mark

[Peter Dowson]

This is part of the log file, i dont really know what i am looking for.

1766 LogOptions=00000001
1766 SimConnect_Open succeeded: proceeding to initialise interface!
12500 Running in "Microsoft Flight Simulator X", Version: 10.0.60905.0 (SimConnect: 2.0.60905.0)
86531 SimStart Event: Initialising SimConnect data requests
86531 FSUIPC Menu entry added


If FSX entered MP mode when you went on-line, presumably later than the first 86 seconds you show here, then FSUIPC4 would log an error and repeat the Simconnect open attempt ... i.e. repeating some of the lines you see above.

If it isn't doing this then I would guess that the other aircraft are being added as AI objects, but for some reason FSUIPC4 can't see them.

There are two possibilities here as far as I can see:

1. The aircraft are being added as other objects, not aircraft, so FSUIPC4 doesn't pick them up. I would have thought you should be able to tell if this is happening, from the Explorer, or

2. SimConnect doesn't tell any clients other than the creator about any aircraft created by clients, only about aircraft created by FSX itself.

I'm now getting a bit concerned that the latter may be the case. I think I'll ask Microsoft about that.

Meanwhile perhaps you could enable FSX's own AI, then, when you believe you have a mix of FSX's AI and injected other player's AI, check in the Traffic Explorer to see if you can distinguish between them in any decent way (other than by simply knowing which are which)?

Regards

Pete

[mgrant]

Peter, i have updated the picture in the other post with MP and AI traffic, All AI traffic have File# numbers and the Key field is populated apposed to MP traffic which just has a ?. However saying that so does the aircraft im using. Hope this helps in some way

Mark

[Peter Dowson]

Peter, i have updated the picture in the other post with MP and AI traffic

Hmm. As I said, I didn't see your picture then, and I still don't see it now. Is there some trick to seeing pictures in this Forum?


All AI traffic have File# numbers and the Key field is populated apposed to MP traffic which just has a ?. However saying that so does the aircraft im using. Hope this helps in some way

No, except it is pointing to the other possibility, that SimConnect doesn't tell clients about client-added objects! :-(

Pete

[Bob Reed]

There are no pictures in these posts.... Nothing you need to do on your end Peter.

[mgrant]

edited picture link should be there now.

Mark

[Peter Dowson]

edited picture link should be there now.

Ah. That's better. That's useful information for me. Thanks.

What I may do is add some temporary extra logging to FSUIPC4 to log details of all of the objects I am advised of. Maybe I am receiving notifications, but rejecting them because something I need is missing.

If I do this, could you run it for me and return the Logs? I'll need your email address so I can send the DLL as a private attachment, with instructions.

It won't be till very late tonight, or more likely tomorrow. I'm a bit busy tonight.


Regards

Pete

[mgrant]

PM'd you my email, glad to help.

[Peter Dowson]

PM'd you my email, glad to help.

I've emailed you a couple of times, and have just sent a version of FSUIPC4 with some extra AI logging.

The good news is that FSUIPC4 is seeing the injected aircraft. I need now to know if TrafficLook shows them. If it does then I will need to talk to Enrico about why the TCAS gauge doesn't also see them. If not, then the extra logging in the interim update I've sent you may tell me why.

I could also do with an example (in the log) of an injected aircraft on the ground, if you could find one at an airport somewhere?

Thanks & Regards

Pete

[mgrant]

HI Pete, i sent a couple of screen shots and logs yesterday, my mails dont seem to be getting through ( problem my end) as soon as i sort this problem out ill get you logs.

Mark.

[Peter Dowson]

HI Pete, i sent a couple of screen shots and logs yesterday, my mails dont seem to be getting through ( problem my end) as soon as i sort this problem out ill get you logs.

Got some stuff from you this morning. Rather difficult to tie things together, but it certainly looks like TrafficLook is picking the injected aircraft up, and they are appearing in the Log with all the right data (except the "on ground" flag and the the ATC state, which is always "init" -- unsurprisingly since FSX's ATC isn't in control).

You say " the interesting thing is if i change the range for PM's PFD to Maximum it seems to display tcas traffic.". What about when you have a mixture of AI and injected traffic, as in many of the examples you've shown me? Does it not show all of the normal AI traffic anyway?

If it never shows any traffic, AI or injected, then it is obviously some setting or bug in the PM TCAS on your system.

As far as I can see everything my end is working. Certainly PM should have no trouble with the "init" state (in FS2000 there were no "states" provided in any case, and PM TCAS was written back then), nor should it bother it that the "on ground flag" is never set -- it may simply display ground traffic when it shouldn't.

I'll do two minor changes in any case:

1) When a plane is more than 100' about the ground in state "init" set it to "enroute".

2) When a plane in init state is less than 100' from the ground, set the "on ground" flag.

As i said, I don't think this will help PM, but you can try it again then in any case. I'll post the update in my Forum, in the FSX downloads announcement, later today or possibly tomorrow.

Meanwhile, please check your TCAS parameters in PM (there are settings for how far above and below your aircraft you detect them, as well as how often it looks as well as range, I think). Once you are sure you *should* see them, please let me know if your TCAS is seeing normal AI traffic when it isn't seeing injected traffic (with the same criteria). If this is the case the I wil need to know from Enrico what it he could possible be checking to differentiate between them, as I really can't see anything different. He certainly shouldn't be using the departure/destination airport fields for this, but if he is I need to know how to fiddle it to make it work.

Regards

Pete

[mgrant]

HI Peter, TCAS works all OK on AI traffic, its just the MP injected traffic that does not display in any way, ground or airborne.


INI files for PM,


TCASRange= 40
TCASAltRange= 0


TCASTimeout= 30


TCASAlertAltDiff= 300
TCASAlertNM= 3
TCASAlertSound=On
TCASWarnNM= 5
TCASWarnSound=On
TCASFontFactor= 1
TCASNoCallSign=Off
TCASOnOffOnly=On



Thanks Mark

[Peter Dowson]

HI Peter, TCAS works all OK on AI traffic, its just the MP injected traffic that does not display in any way, ground or airborne.


I've "fiddled" some of the zero values (GS, VS) supplied for the injected aircraft and sent another test version of FSUIPC4. Please try that, and show me the logs again, even if it appears to work now (Enrico says that the GS must be non-zero for the aircraft to show).

Regards

Pete

[mgrant]

Thanks Pete, as soon as i get it i will give it a test.

Mark.

[Peter Dowson]

Thanks Pete, as soon as i get it i will give it a test.

Mark.

I sent an "!imporved" V/S version last night (4.086), but during my sleep I think I have worked out what is going on with GS and VS and what the solution has to be.

I think the program which is injecting the traffic has a difficult job to do. It can't inject the aircraft and left FS fly them, as they wouldn't necessarily follow the correct paths then, and the 'corrections' which would have to be applied, positionally, at intervals would look bad. Not only that, but having FS fly them would impose an unnecessary performance overhead when accurate and frequent updating is only useful (for most purposes anyway) when the aircraft are within visual range of the user.

So, I think it is creating the aircraft as static (slew mode) objects, then just re-positioning them now and then -- very often for near objects, and less often for those further away (especially > 10nm).

When I read the GS and VS, therefore, they will almost always be zero -- the nearer aircraft may sometimes be caught in the act of being moved and in those cases I may get a reading, but that isn't real, and in the case of AirSpeed may just be a headwind reading in any case.

If this is indeed what is happening then the only longer term answer is for FSUIPC4 to compute both GS and VS, so I am looking to do that this morning. Please don't worry about testing 4.086 much -- I'll send 4.087 later.


Regards

Pete

[mgrant]

HI Pete, Who knows whats going on with my mails. anyway.

Number three is climbing at a rate of 100ft per second or however long it takes for the program to refresh / update but the VS is still 0

http://www.mark1million.talktalk.net/images/untitled.bmp

[RGroebl]

Hello,

since yesterday I have PM Software. I´m flying online at Vatsim and the MP Traffic isn´t displayed at the PM TCAS.
I am using FS9, FSINN 1.3 FSUIPC 3.75.

Any Solutions?

Best regards
Roland

[mgrant]

A quick solution try using Sqawkbox to see if that works, if it does its FSINN and the way they inject traffic. This is the first problem i have seen using fs9 fsinn and PM nor,ally there is no problem with these.

Another quick fix is to not connect the the network and trun you AI traffic on and see if they display in the PM's PFD

[Peter Dowson]

I´m flying online at Vatsim and the MP Traffic isn´t displayed at the PM TCAS.
I am using FS9, FSINN 1.3 FSUIPC 3.75.
Any Solutions?

FSUIPC cannot see MP traffic, but there are facilities in FSUIPC for applications, like FSINN, to inject the data for TCAS displays. With older versions of Squawkbox this function was performed by a program called AIBridge from Jose Oliveira, but I am pretty sure the latest Squawkbox versions do it themselves. I'm afraid I don't know about FSINN -- that's a question for the maker/supplier of that program.

Regards

Pete

[RGroebl]

Solution is found. Before Posting I should better think :). Newer Version of AIBridge installed and the MP Traffic over FSINN will be shown.

Thanks for the very fast reply´s.

Regards
Roland

[JBaymore]

Newer Version of AIBridge installed and the MP Traffic over FSINN will be shown.



Roland,

When you refer to "newer version"......... what version are you talking about and where did you get it? I have nothing but problems with AIBridge on FSHost servers... and have been looking for solutions for ages. I THINK I have been using the newest one....... but I am not sure.

best,

................john

[RGroebl]

Hi John,

I use FSINN Beta 1.3. This Software installs AIBidge 2.3. In the Internet I searched and found on this page a newer Version of AIBridge.

http://www.fscommander.com/download.htm

This Version is 3.0. Now it´s a little tricky.

Start your FS9, then start FSINN and connect to Multiplayer. Don´t connect in this moment to Vatsim. Now start AIBridge and thereafter connect to Vatsim. That´s all. And now I see the other MP.

Greets
Roland