gear up gear down

[Radar]

:cry: +Back 3 years ago I suffered a serious head injury. I have problems remembering things. So, if you see me asking the same questions over and over this could be problem. Thanks for understanding;)

:p This site with all of you and my project has fired me up. My wife says she hasn't seen me so excited about something since the accident. So, you will see a lot of questions from me. PICS TO COME VERY VERY SOON.


:D :roll: Could someone please tell me what and where to get the switches that I need for ex: Gear up gear down. When I move the handle it contacts the switch.

The flying trucker Mike

[Bob Reed]

Hi Mike. Do not worry about the questions that is what we built this site for! I need a little more info to help you. What interface are you using to connect your switches to the computer?

[Radar]

I think I will take Westozys suggestion and get Simboards Master module, and a 64x8x8 input module .:D

[Bob Reed]

That sounds like a really good idea. Ok.. What sim are you going to build? And what are you going to use for your gear lever? A simple on off toggle switch can run your gear. So I need a little more info...

[Radar]

That sounds like a really good idea. Ok.. What sim are you going to build? And what are you going to use for your gear lever? A simple on off toggle switch can run your gear. So I need a little more info...

:p Ok! Thanks Bob.
I'm building a 737NG. I got the MIP stand,Mip,MFC glaresheild,FMC box and the pedestal box done.:)

I would like to do something simple for my gear lever. Any suggestions:roll:

Thanks Mike

[Bob Reed]

If my blasted camera ever gets back I will take a picture of what I did with mine. Right now I am just using a toggle switch to lower and raise the gear. Pics soon I hope!

[Rodney]

Radar,
take a look at this builders idea.
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=fr_en&trurl=http%3a%2f%2fpages.infinit.net%2falain737%2ftrain%2ftrain.htm

[Westozy]

Hi Mike,

Here's a pic of my gear lever mechanism using micro switches, they are pretty cheap. This simple design gives a really solid feel with the lever clicking into any of the three positions.

http://www.mycockpit.org/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=590

Gwyn

[Michael Carter]

Mike, those are also called snap action, or just snap switches. I've used them in several places in my equipment.

They are easier to use and adjust if you buy them with a lever attached. They come in various sizes and lever lengths. You can also get them with a wire lever or a roller lever for a very smooth movement.

[Radar]

:D Wonderful.
Lots of great ideas for me to look at. Thanks eveybody;)

Boeing Skunk Works. I looked at the Mousers page and saw snap switches. But I don't know what kind I would need.
How many would you estimate that I would need for a 737NG simpit.

[Westozy]

Good question, that's like, how long is a piece of string? I suggest getting about 15 for a starter. That should take care of your Ldg gear lever and throttle quad. Avoid really cheap toggle and rotary switches, I had a couple of low quality switches and the Sim-Board software sometimes saw two switch actions like the switch internals were bouncing or something. I changed to better quality units and solved that problem.

Gwyn

[Michael Carter]

Yeah, cheap switches are no good. Spend at least $4 or $5 on a toggle. Most are break-before-make, and should be marked if they are make-before-break.

You want the first type.

I replaced all of the cheap switches in my overhead with some nice Ormon or Mountain switches, can't remember which now, but I haven't had any problems since.

I'm using the snap switches on my start levers, reversers, parking brake, Sperry 150 aileron and elevator hold and the pitch control, and the landing gear assembly.

Total of 15.

[Trevor Hale]

Radar,

I Just realized what your getting at. You keep asking what kind. I think I will take a minuite to explain something, that I think we are all assuming that you know. If you do know, then great, if not, that I apologize that we missed what you were getting at.

a switch is a device that when moved closes to contact points. You could go to your local hardware store and by a light switch that you use to turn your lights on and off with in your house and it would work. Even if a switch says it is rated at 600 volts, if your only switching 3 volts through it, it still will work.

Some switches have 2 sets of contact points, allowing 2 separate functions when you move the switch this is called double Pole.

You can get switches in many shapes and sizes, and for your project it is all about looks. If it is a switch that you won't see like inside a gear leaver, then just get something you can work with.

If it is something that you see, then try to find one that looks like you want it to look.

I hope this helps.

Trev

[Bob Reed]

Hmmmm. That is a very good point Trevor. We tend to assume WAY too much.

[Radar]

Radar,

I Just realized what your getting at. You keep asking what kind. I think I will take a minuite to explain something, that I think we are all assuming that you know. If you do know, then great, if not, that I apologize that we missed what you were getting at.

a switch is a device that when moved closes to contact points. You could go to your local hardware store and by a light switch that you use to turn your lights on and off with in your house and it would work. Even if a switch says it is rated at 600 volts, if your only switching 3 volts through it, it still will work.

Some switches have 2 sets of contact points, allowing 2 separate functions when you move the switch this is called double Pole.

You can get switches in many shapes and sizes, and for your project it is all about looks. If it is a switch that you won't see like inside a gear leaver, then just get something you can work with.

If it is something that you see, then try to find one that looks like you want it to look.

I hope this helps.

Trev


:D Your right Trevor. I do not understand anything about volts and amps. I just know that my truck and car needs to run at around 14 volts:p When I looked at the Mouser web page there's lots of options that I don't undertand

:p I had to got and buy $2000.00 of tools just to start this project. I had a drill. Thats it:roll: So as you can see I'am very dedicated to this project.

:cool: Now I undertand that for my gear lever I should get a switch with a lever. But I may need some with just a snap basic.

<TABLE id=ParametricUC_ParametricTable border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="WHITE-SPACE: normal" vAlign=top>Contact Form</TD><TD id=ParametricUC_TableCell_Spacer_0 style="WIDTH: 15px"> </TD><TD style="WHITE-SPACE: normal" vAlign=top>Switch Function</TD><TD id=ParametricUC_TableCell_Spacer_1 style="WIDTH: 15px"> </TD><TD style="WHITE-SPACE: normal" vAlign=top>Contact Current Rating</TD><TD id=ParametricUC_TableCell_Spacer_2 style="WIDTH: 15px"> </TD><TD style="WHITE-SPACE: normal" vAlign=top>Termination Style</TD><TD id=ParametricUC_TableCell_Spacer_3 style="WIDTH: 15px"> </TD><TD style="WHITE-SPACE: normal" vAlign=top>Actuator</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

This what i'm not sure off. How to order them.

Thank you all for your patients.

[Bob Reed]

Ok.. First thing you need to do is decide is your gear going to work with just a switch or are you going to build a lever? If you are going to build a lever then I would look a the pictures on this site to decide how you are going to build it then that will help you decide what kind of switches you will need. Until you know what you are using for a lever the switch is kind of a mute point. In other words the type of switch will depend on how you build the lever. You see? :D

[Radar]

Ok.. First thing you need to do is decide is your gear going to work with just a switch or are you going to build a lever? If you are going to build a lever then I would look a the pictures on this site to decide how you are going to build it then that will help you decide what kind of switches you will need. Until you know what you are using for a lever the switch is kind of a mute point. In other words the type of switch will depend on how you build the lever. You see? :D

Ok! Bob.

I would like to do it as close to the real thing. I'm guessing 2 lever switches?

[Trevor Hale]

So you will need to build something that when the leaver is up... It pushes one switch and when the lever is down it pushes the second switch and releases the first.


current contact rating.. is how many amps the switch can handle before it shorts out internally. For low voltage stuff like out interface boards get any switch that can handle at least 1/4 .25 of an amp. If your going to drive motor's etc with a switch you would need to find out how many amps the motor draws and make sure you get a switch that has a rating higher then what the motor draws.
Switch function.. This is easy. Is it open all the time (normally open) and when you active the switch is closes. Is it (normally closed) so when you activate it it opens or function can be labled as (ON-OFF-ON) This is a 3 position switch when the switch is in the middle position it is off when it is one position one contact closes and when it is on the other position the other contact closes.

Termination style This is basically why kind of terminals are on it that you will attach your wires too. Like screws, solder points ect. Basically when you order parts they show you a data sheet, look at it and usually they describe how the switch looks, from that picture you can see how you will connect to it.

Actuator This is how the switch is made inside. For instance plastic actuator would be a cheap switch, wouldn't last long, where a ball bearing, or brass actuator would be more heavy duty.

Contact form is usually the material that the contacts are made out of internally, ie (Gold, Brass, etc) The better the material the more expensive, really for what we are doing, buy a product that is not the cheapest, but not the most expensive.

Radar, when your ready to place an order, drop me an email, I would be more then happy to discuss it with you to make sure your getting the right parts. It is always nerve racking when you order something you can't see in your hands first.

Or you can alternatively post the part numbers here and I can check them. and describe the part you ordered to you in English :)

Trev

[Bob Reed]

Yes this is a good idea. Most of us where in your shoes not so long ago. In fact some of us (me) still get a little nervous when ordering things like switches and other components. Contact Mouser and get there catalog a great reference when ordering. But as you get further along in your project you will become like most of us and think we have an idea of what we are doing, only to order and when it arrives find out we do not.. But we keep that on the QT!;) Only thing is we all know all of us do it!! We are a funny bunch!!

[Radar]

Awsome Trevor.

I will copy and past your post in a safe place for future info.

I will order soon.

:) Very much apreciated. To all who helped.

Mike

[Radar]

:D Trevor. Something like this. What do you think. Looks like 2 regular switches with no levers.

[Trevor Hale]

That is exactly how you build it. Those two switches are called Snap or leaver micro switches.

Here is another link.


http://pages.videotron.com/flight01/atelier/Ews.html#

then click on landing gear.

[Radar]

That is exactly how you build it. Those two switches are called Snap or leaver micro switches.

Here is another link.


http://pages.videotron.com/flight01/atelier/Ews.html#

then click on landing gear.

AHHHH! Yes . That looks like something I can do. Is there a spring there somewhere? Cause you have to pull first right?

THKS Mike

[Trevor Hale]

Correct. a Bolt through the leaver with elongated holes to allow the slide action, with a spring behind it.

Works like a charm.

Trev

[Michael Carter]

Make sure when you order ask for the catalog.

When you call Mouser they will ask for your customer number. Since you are new, they will assign you one.

Afterwards it's a simple matter to have your part numbers together and make the call. It's very straightforward. They have a tech line too so you can speak to a tech about your application for a particular product.

The order taker will send you to the tech line, and then the tech will send you back to the order desk.

Switches come in a variety of configurations. As an example, the fire handle switches are an 8-pole, single throw type. That means it can control eight circuits at once in an on-off configuration.

For a lot of sim building you'll want at least a double-pole, single throw. You can control two circuits with this switch. One side of the switch for signal to the input card, and maybe the other side of the switch to illuminate an indicator from a voltage source.

Some of these abbreviations you will see in the catalog are:

SPST- Single-pole, single throw. One circuit, on & off.

DPST-Double pole, single throw. Two circuits, on & off.

DPDT- Double-pole, double throw. Two circuits, on-off-on.

DPDT- Same as above, but can be ON-ON. Useful for some cards that do not recognize the off, or open state of a switch. Many keyboard encoders fall into this catagory. They need to see the keypress when the switch is thrown to ON, and they need to see it when it is thrown to OFF for the second keystroke. Landing lights are a good example of this switch's use.

SP3T or DP3T- Single or douple pole, ON-ON-ON.

There are also momentary variations of all of these switches.

The one I mentioned in my sim is an 8PST. There are many others that fall between these two extremes. Many of the toggle switches in my overhead are a 4PST or 4PDT.

The one in my glareshield rack is by far the largest switch I've ever seen. 24 contacts on that bad boy.

[Radar]

Correct. a Bolt through the leaver with elongated holes to allow the slide action, with a spring behind it.

Works like a charm.

Trev

Excellent Trevor. I can do this. I will work on it this weeken and hopefully get some pics.

One again. Thanks Mike:p

[Trevor Hale]

Be careful. And most of all have fun with it.

Trev

[brianwilliamson]

Most interfaces only need one switch, which is either on or off. Here is a picture of my u-c lever for the Airbus, but all the same principle.
regards...............Brian W.

[Michael Carter]

That is very true if you are using LED's powered from the board.

For 28VDC you need a DP switch. One side for signal, one side for power if it is supposed to light a lamp.

[Radar]

Most interfaces only need one switch, which is either on or off. Here is a picture of my u-c lever for the Airbus, but all the same principle.
regards...............Brian W.


:p Thks Brian. Great work.

[Radar]

That is very true if you are using LED's powered from the board.

For 28VDC you need a DP switch. One side for signal, one side for power if it is supposed to light a lamp.


Oh no! Mr Skunk has me all confused again!!!:roll: Just kidding almost.

So, the switch that I use will depend on if i'm going to add lights to the system?

:p THKS Mike

[Bob Reed]

Well to be honest, most of the lights that need to be lit in a 737 can be lit by an offset from with in FS so there is no need to have the switches light the lights directly. When you throw the switch FS sees it and turns the light on for you. Example... Your gear handle. Push it to the up position and FS says hey the landing gear is going up. So FS turns off the green lights and turns on the red lights... Your interface does all that work for you. Now there is a little work involved but do not worry about that yet. Just get your handle built and your interface on the way and we will go one step at a time. In fact I am going to order some switches tomorrow so I will peek around and see what I think you might want to get.:D

[Westozy]

Hi Bob, I would be very interested in learning how to get my ldg gear lights to operate if you know how.

Cheers, Gwyn

[Trevor Hale]

Hi Bob, I would be very interested in learning how to get my ldg gear lights to operate if you know how.

Cheers, Gwyn

LOL, Of coarse he knows how :) Do you have an output board for your simboards yet Gwyn?

[Bob Reed]

Hi Gwyn. Trevor is right, do you have an output board? That is what is needed.

[Westozy]

Neg, but I'll put it on the wish list!

Finished painting all the bitmaps for the 737 Overhead, I will post them to Matt on CD to put on the site soon.

Gwyn

[Michael Carter]

There are other ways around having the gear lights sequence properly without bothering FS or even using anything connected to the computer at all.

Output cards will not drive aircraft 28VDC Korry indicators. Even if you changed the bulbs to 5VDC (which they don't offer) the current requirement would kill the board.

A relay card could be used with an output card for this purpose at added expence, but I've found the solution below to be cheaper and easier with no programming required. It is independent of FS and the computer.

This is an afternoon project using a minimal of parts. Eliminating a couple of resistors will provide 12VDC to the indicator lamps, and they do offer 12V replacements for those.

http://www.simprojects.nl/gear_up_down_indicator.htm

If you are building a newer aircraft you can pretty much stick with the output cards to drive LED's. Most of the indicators and switch lights are smaller and don't require the brightness or 'in-your-face' illumination found on many older jets using the older Korry indicators. Besides Korry, there are several other manufacturers that Boeing and Airbus are now using for thier indicators and switches.

Back in the day, there were very few push button switches in a Boeing. Attendant call, test buttons for the CVR, and a few others. The majority were all toggle switches, even the lamp test switch. Nowdays, a Boeing is full of push buttons. It's difficult to find as many toggle switches as on the older planes.

All of those new push button switches are using LED's.

[Bob Reed]

Hi Boeing, you are right about there are other ways to light them but I have 12 volt bulbs for them (Korrys) and I have no trouble lighting them with my card. Most of the cards you supply the power to the Korry and all the card does is the ground. With my interface makes no difference on the voltage because I supply it be it bulb or led, or buzzer or whatever... Also on a couple Korrys I have replaced the bulbs with leds...

[Michael Carter]

Bob, are you using a common ground for both signal and voltage?

Please tell me a little more aout this wiring. I'd be really interested.

[Bob Reed]

Lets use the led as an example. + side of the power supply (voltage only matters to whatever you are trying to turn off and on) to the + side of the led. - side of the led to the interface board. On this input for my board there is also a 330ohm resistor since I am feeding my leds 5volts. This drops me down to a little over 2.5volts at the led. Now this same principle works with anything the interface needs to turn on and off. Most of the interfaces I have seen out there work the same way. Some of them can supply power but as long as the only active part is the ground you could still supply your own voltage.

[Michael Carter]

So if I understand what you're saying, you are, or can, run mutiple voltages using a common ground and it is kept separated?

[Bob Reed]

Yes. The common has nothing to do with the power supply. My interface supplies the ground. The PS is not connected in any other way to the interface. We should probably move this thread to the interface forum.

[Radar]

Well to be honest, most of the lights that need to be lit in a 737 can be lit by an offset from with in FS so there is no need to have the switches light the lights directly. When you throw the switch FS sees it and turns the light on for you. Example... Your gear handle. Push it to the up position and FS says hey the landing gear is going up. So FS turns off the green lights and turns on the red lights... Your interface does all that work for you. Now there is a little work involved but do not worry about that yet. Just get your handle built and your interface on the way and we will go one step at a time. In fact I am going to order some switches tomorrow so I will peek around and see what I think you might want to get.:D

:D Thanks Bob. I will work on the Gear leaver this weekend.

THKS Everybody. The MC Team strikes again:roll:

[Trevor Hale]

Boeing.

Yes he is powering all his 12V lights and led's from a computer power supply, therefore it has the common Ground built inside the power supply.

Just so your straight.

Radar, Ignore the complex terms used in this thread, for you lets take this one step at a time. Lets get your gear lever built and we will look at your switches when your ready. I will take you through step by step.

Please do not get discouraged with all the technical jargon. You will be an expert soon enough.

Trev

[Bob Reed]

No Trevor.... You are wrong.... I am using a number of PSs not just one.

[Michael Carter]

Bob, could you please send me a simple schematic or diagram of how you wired one of your output cards with the 12VDC bulbs including the hook-up for the power supply?

Try as I might, I cannot get a picture of this in my head and keep the card voltage separate from the power supply voltage.

Scratch that. I just realized what you are doing. I think this is gonna work, but I'll wait until Darin chimes in before sending a wad of cash down the drain.

[Bob Reed]

My output cards do not supply voltage. Ground from the light to the input on the card. 12Volt PS + to the + side of the bulb. That simple....

[Michael Carter]

YES! I understand now.