Perspective

[garyk007]

Hi all,

I was wondering if some one could explain the perspective problem from the Capt and F/O sides when using one projector?

I want to have one projector for my 737NG cockpit and want to avoid this problem. Does it have to do with the default view settings in flightsim?

I heard it appears to the Capt as though the runway goes off to the right and the opposite for the F/O. Why is this?

Thanks

Gareth

[Bob Reed]

Actually, the guy that understands this a lot better then I do is not on right now. He is in the middle of moving. But the problem stems from the fact that Flight Sim is ment to be seen from a monitor in front of the pilot. So the runway is skewed in that direction. I have no idea if you can change it.

[NicD]

Yep - you can change it in your aircraft.cfg

[Views]
eyepoint=3.0, -1.3, 2.1

change the middle value to zero (moves lateral view to absolute centre)

[Bob Reed]

Oh man... If this works!

[bindook]

i actually have a bend in my screen which improves the view. But will try out Nics idea tonight.



Michael

[Trevor Hale]

Yep - you can change it in your aircraft.cfg

[Views]
eyepoint=3.0, -1.3, 2.1

change the middle value to zero (moves lateral view to absolute centre)

This will change the eye point in the Virtual Cockpit. As long as the aircraft your using doesn't have a VC then this will help. It will change the position of your eye on the lateral and vertical, but not the Z Axis, so it will help, but the main issue is when you get it set good for the pilot, the First officer will feel like he is going sideways down the runway.


Apparently the only way to correct this issue is with thousands of dollars of collimated mirrors.

Best regards,

Trev

[NicD]

It worked for me and others (from FDS forum) - not totally, but quite an improvement. I mostly fly the sim in 2-crew with a friend and we have no perspective issues on either side of the deck.

[Bob Reed]

What I would not give to have someone else close by interested in the sim.. Even just to fly it and not work on it! Oh well.. I will try your suggestion! Thanks for sharing!

[farrokh747]

hi - from what I understand, the centre value of the three sets how much the eyepoint is offset from the center datum line of the aircraft - the LHS is a negative value and the RHS is +ve. So -2.15 is the capt eyepoint (appx 2 ft to the left of the centreline for 747) For the FO, the value needs to be set to a +ve value, so in this case it would be 2.15

I've tried this in my set up and the viewpoint now shifts slightly to the right of the rwy centre line - of course, the position of the projector then needs to be shifted over in line with the FO seat -

This appears to be a combination of projector placement and eyepoint settings -


fc

Please back up your cfg file!

[NicD]

and btw ... these values also change the eyepoint in normal cockpit view - not just virtual cockpit view.

[ivar hestnes]

These 3 settings.

The center number alters the centerline on the screen, but what are the 2 other numbers for?

[NicD]

first number is backwards/forwards
second number is left/right
third number is up/down

[ivar hestnes]

Thank you:)

[JBaymore]

There I though this thread was going to be a long philosophical discussion about simming and cockpit building. ;)

NicD,

Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU. Been looking for this info.

best,

..................john

[NicD]

lol John ... "I simulate, therefore I am" :D

[Michael Carter]

If a JT-8D17 engine starts and no one is there to hear it, does it still still make that unGodly loud noise and belch all of that smoke? :D

[ivar hestnes]

I am still having a struggle with the centerline.

This is my problem: I am using Project magenta and the pmdg flight model.

I have adjusted fs9/aircraft/pmdg 737-700/aircraft.cfg wiews. Altered the center number to 0. Have also tried to alter the number with different numbers but nothing happens. Centerline is still angled. And it doesnt change whatever I do.

Anybody got some good advice?

[Michael Carter]

I am still having a struggle with the centerline.

This is my problem: I am using Project magenta and the pmdg flight model.

I have adjusted fs9/aircraft/pmdg 737-700/aircraft.cfg wiews. Altered the center number to 0. Have also tried to alter the number with different numbers but nothing happens. Centerline is still angled. And it doesnt change whatever I do.

Anybody got some good advice?


I'm sure you already thought of this, but can you move the projector to the left? Or does this further skew the view for the FO?

[sas550]

I am still having a struggle with the centerline.

This is my problem: I am using Project magenta and the pmdg flight model.

I have adjusted fs9/aircraft/pmdg 737-700/aircraft.cfg wiews. Altered the center number to 0. Have also tried to alter the number with different numbers but nothing happens. Centerline is still angled. And it doesnt change whatever I do.

Anybody got some good advice?

Hi Ivar! The centerline will be angeled no matter what you put in thoose numbers as long as you have the projector on the centerline and you sit in either seat. The difference with the "zero" value is that you'll get the same angle from both seats

[NicD]

Another thing we discovered is that the wider your front view is, the less the crab-angle issue is evident (and vice-versa). Ideally the left edge of your front view should be on about a 30 - 40 degree angle from your left window post (front windows) as you look at it from the captains seat. In fact this means that you shouldn't be able to see the left edge of your screen from the captains seat ... the window post should be obscuring it (just). Same for the right side from the FOs seat.

If you set your front view width using these left and right guides then the perspective seems about right and the crab issue is alot less noticeable.

We can't go fully to this width yet because of room constraints - but that will change when we move it later on.

[Westozy]

I re-aimed my projector to give the left seat a more realistic looking perspective. When I set it up initially, I had it beaming straight down the middle as a compromise giving both pilots a slight crabbed view. Now the F.O. has an increased crab view but it is still very flyable. 90% of the time I'm flying on my own so it works great, I usually let the visitors use the captain's seat. Basically, aim the projector at the captain's head for the best result. Nic is right, make the picture as big as possible first. It is so much easier to fly like this I reckon.

Gwyn

[ivar hestnes]

Thank you very much for explaining this. Now I understand it better. I will very soon put my MIP into my shell and I will them try with positioning the projectors.

:)

[Tomlin]

I am going to be trying out the projector this weekend to get it setup for the event. Just to recap, change the center value to '0' and position the projector to get the biggest image possible, correct?

I appreciate any updated info from those of you who've 'been there/done that'!

[Tomlin]

Okay, I was the last person to post on this thread and I wanted to resurrect it.

I just got thru putting my new PC thru the 'fire' and it's working a treat for FS9. I havent tired FSX for the full size LJ45 sim, for fear of liking it better and fussing with the machine again!

So, what I wanted to post was a bit of info about my sim and what I find so far regarding perspective and crabbing.

Im using an Epson S3 Powerlight LCD projector with a native 800x600, running in 1024x768.

I have a room size of 17.5 x 17.5, and my screen is 8x8 (large I know, but it's there just in case).

I project about 6'x5' or so of an image, and that's approximately 9.5-10 feet away from the projector to the screen.

The image is about 9 feet away from my head/eyes and is mounted at about 7' off the floor.

The projector is mounted in the center of the sim, and straight on to the screen.

When I taxi, occassionally I look at the aircraft to see how on the center line I am, and I usually right on the center line.

Here's the kicker- I notice No crab effect, I land manually EVERY TIME, AND Ive not put in an altered eyepoint since I have a fresh install of FS9. However, the Copilot may experience it, as my friend said to him is appears the center line is going between his legs.

How does this make sense? Maybe it's that I have a good combination of size, distance, etc? Im thinking I will play around with the settings to equal it all out for the copilot a bit, but Im amazed that it looks 'right' for the left seat with no changes. Maybe Ive just gotten accustomed to the slight crab and have been unconciously adjusting for it?

[mauriceb]

I am going to echo the opinion of Angus Wighton who is corporate pilot with a very nice sim that has separate monitors for all the views. He set it up so that the view looks right for the captain only and he is quite happy with that setup.

His justification is that the captain's view is the one that matters. If there is a first officer in the right seat, he should be too busy to look around too much and if it is just a visitor, then a little crabbing is not a big price to pay for the experience, especially since it is only mildly annoying during the taxi, takeoff & landing.

I flew in his sim as the captain & then as the first officer and I can heartily agree with him. The only view that matters is the captain's view.

Maurice

[Tomlin]

Nice point of view Maur, get it...p.o.v. ! :-)

No really, I think it's very valid but there's the problem that it would nag me a bit though when folks came over! However, it's something to ponder if someone were to be incapable of getting a good compromise like NicD outlines.

[ivar hestnes]

I dont have any big issues with the crabbing effect either. Today I landed my sim from tha F/O seat for the first time and it felt very natural. ( except for that I caught myself looking at capt displays all the time, even I have FO displays;)) No obvious crabbing issues. I watched the replay from both seats and all good from both those positions.

Even watched the replay from outside the aircraft. And positioned so I looked at the aircraft from the back. Then I could see how I positioned the aircraft against the centerline on my approach. Then I could see my actual movements towards the centerline, and I did the right corrections all the way.

Forum member ENKB was here on a visit today. Very cool to fly with two captains:)

[NicD]

Interesting Eric, sounds great !

We fly the sim from left or right seat and the experience from the left seat is slightly better (due to eyepoint values), but not hugely so.

I suspect its got alot to do with the combination of screen width and focal distance. The wider the screen is the more pronounced the crab effect is (especially if using wrap-around). And I think there is a sweet spot for relative focal distance - which you may have nailed.

We can't wait to move our sim into bigger premises and experiment further with all this, without having to use curved mirrors.