HELP! Online and AIBridge

[JBaymore]

Hi guys (and ladies). I need some help here.

I am having a problem with the IFSBI/WFUSA flight server and I can't seem to figure it out. Been trying for a few days. Richard and I played with this a bunch last night.

So there I am connected on the IFSBI 72.83.156.135 flight server in multiplayer in the fs2004 flight sim. Teamspeak is connected and doin' fine too. If there is NO ONE online, I can then get my copy of AIBridge 3.0 to connect just fine, and get the AIBRidge "connected" message on the machine window that it is running on, and can minimize it to the tray.

HOWEVER, if Richard tries to connect once my AIBridge is connceted he gets the evil, "All players were not able to connect" message. If I disconnect my copy of AIBridge, Richard can now connect just fine. If HE then tries to connect HIS copy of AIBridge, he gets AIBridge on just fine! Curious! And I can connect my fs2004 sim just fine when his fs2004 sim and his copy if AIBridge are both connected. I can't connect my AIBridge when both he and his AIBridge are connected.

Once Richard is connected in JUST his flight sim (no AIBridge) if I try to connect AIBridge to the server, it connects (shows in the chat box in fs2004) for a SHORT while but then hangs and goes unresponsive. I have to CTRL+ALT+DEL and endtask to close it...... and it sends the typical message to good ole' Uncle Bill. I also tried running it in Win 2000/ME mode instead of XP..... to no avail.

My copy of AIBridge is located on my #2 computer which is on a 100 mbit switched hardwired LAN with the other pit machines. The LAN machines have fixed IP addresses set up. I use an Actiontec GT704 -WG DSL modem (wired, not wireless) for net access and the machines are hooked to it on the LAN. The network sim communications are supported by FSUIPC and WideFS and all computers "see" each other just fine (all gauges work).

I have the usual 23456, 23457, 23458, 6073, and 8767 udp/tcp open on the DSL modem and in both the #1 machine and #2 machine's firewall. I do not run FSNav...so no port opened for that. I have NOT opened the "alternate DirectX" range of 2300-2400 yet. I have the AIBridge and FS2004 programs both set as "exceptions" in Win XP firewalls on both machine #1 and #2.

After experiencing this issue a couple of days ago, I was recently told by Richard that you also need to have 47624 TCP/UDP open for AIBridge..... and I have opened that on the #1 and #2 machines and DSL modem too.

This same symptom happens if I try to use the copy of AIBridge 3.0 I have on the #1 machine too. So this SEEMS to point to the DSL modem.

AIBridge works reasonably well for me on many other FSHost flight servers ..... although it has always been plagued by "erratic behavior" on FSHost servers in general (I understand that others have the same issues).

Are there any other CONFIRMED ports that AIBRidge needs opened? Do you have any other suggestions for me? I love flying on this server, and I REALLY want to have my FreeFD ND TACAS display working for multiplayer.

Any help appreciated. :)


best,

......................john

[ak49er]

JB, you and I have similar GC setups. I ask why you use AI Bridge, you mentioned earlier it is to see AI aircraft and other user aircraft with the TCAS on Free FD's ND, When fying offline or on VATSIM, my TCAS works, (displays traffic)I have not payed much attention though as to what aircraft are being displayed, whether they are indeed AI or other simmers aircraft. Could you enlighten me.

[Bob Reed]

On VATSIM you do not need AIBridge. Maybe Greg will have a little insight. I will see if I can log on tonight and help out too... AIBridge is troublesome at best on FSHost servers. I am seeing what can be done about this.

[JBaymore]

JB, you and I have similar GC setups. I ask why you use AI Bridge, you mentioned earlier it is to see AI aircraft and other user aircraft with the TCAS on Free FD's ND, When fying offline or on VATSIM, my TCAS works, (displays traffic)I have not payed much attention though as to what aircraft are being displayed, whether they are indeed AI or other simmers aircraft. Could you enlighten me.

AK49er,

First of all in FSHost multiplayer there is no AI flying .... so nothing to "see" on the TACAS radar. ;)

Offline, the FreeFD ND display sees all of the AI planes just fine.

Online, the TACAS needs to "see" what it THINKS are AI aircraft in order to display ANYTHING. In that role comes AIBridge. It "injects" the online player's aircraft positions and movements (descending, asending, onground, etc.) into the fs2004 TACAS table. Then the FreeFD ND thinks they are just other AI.... when they are in fact multiplayer aircraft.

Slick in concept....... far less slick in practical execution.

I understand that AIBridge was designed for an early version of AVSIM. Not for FSHost. As Bob says.... it is problematic on FShost. HOWEVER, I do not have this kind of problem on any OTHER FSHost server. So this is something unique to this one.

What is REALLY needed is a replacement for AIBridge that is specific to FSHost flight servers. (hint...hint! )

Or maybe it is specific to just me and Richard being online at the same time. Don't know. I haven't really tried to connect it with a single OTHER person logged on as an experiment similar to what he and I did last night.

Hope this helps clarify things.

best,

..................john

[JBaymore]

On VATSIM you do not need AIBridge. Maybe Greg will have a little insight. I will see if I can log on tonight and help out too... AIBridge is troublesome at best on FSHost servers. I am seeing what can be done about this.

Bob,

Thanks for trying to help with this. Hopefully we'll get to the bottom of it.

best,

................john

[Tim]

Hi John,

From the replies, it appears this is a known problem. However, I sure hope my systems are not compounding the problem.

You mentioned a two items that I could use some clarification on. These may not be related to the AIBridge issue.

You mentioned using an Actiontec GT704 -WG DSL modem. Is this a DSL modem and 4 port Router in one package?

Why I ask is, I use the ISP supplied Speedstream 4200 DSL modem connected to a Linksys WRT54G 4 port router. I'm wondering if some of my FSHost connection problems are related to these two units. Are you satisifed with the ActionTec unit?

I also noticed you mentioned opening ports in the client firewalls. Are you referring to a hardware firewall or WinXP, Norton AV, ie software firewall?

Regards,

Richard

[JBaymore]

Hi John,

From the replies, it appears this is a known problem. However, I sure hope my systems are not compounding the problem.

You mentioned a two items that I could use some clarification on. These may not be related to the AIBridge issue.

You mentioned using an Actiontec GT704 -WG DSL modem. Is this a DSL modem and 4 port Router in one package?

Why I ask is, I use the ISP supplied Speedstream 4200 DSL modem connected to a Linksys WRT54G 4 port router. I'm wondering if some of my FSHost connection problems are related to these two units. Are you satisifed with the ActionTec unit?

I also noticed you mentioned opening ports in the client firewalls. Are you referring to a hardware firewall or WinXP, Norton AV, ie software firewall?

Regards,

Richard


Richard,

As I understand it... a "pure" DSL modem does not have "ports" to deal with. But I don't use one... so can't tell you for sure. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than I can shed light on that.

The Actiontec unit I have is a combination DSL modem (wired/wirless), and 4 port router. I am not using any of the router part except one connection .... to which the switched (Linksys) network is connected.

Because of this fact, you have to open up the firmware firewall that is built into the "modem / router" unit in addition to any of the software firewalls like the XP SPII one (which I am using on almost all the machines). Otherwise no matter what else you "open" up, your "ports are not open",....... at least as I understand it. I had the folks at my ISP help step me through setting up the Actiontec the first time ;) . After doing it in the setup software, now it is somewhat "easy".

If you are using a router, you will have to specifically open ports in it if you have not done so yet. If you don't know how to do that, maybe call your ISP for som help.

I hear that people have problems with routers ALL THE TIME for multiplayer use. It seems that they are the source for about 99% of the issues people have for multiplayer. So yes, that may be part of your connection problems. Your connection problems and my AIBridge problem may be related.... in a couple of ways.

In the first case, I may have something incorrectly set up in my port opening and firewalls that is causing this. Entirely likely still, since this stuff is annoyingly complex to get right.

And if it turns out your router ports are not really open,........ that might be why AIBridge won't connect for me when you are on.

However, if that were the case....... it is likely that some OTHERS would have a problem connecting their sims when you are on. And that does not seem to be the case, does it? Or maybe AIBridge is even more senstive to port problems than the pesky fs2004 sim itself...so most others can connect.... but AIBridge doesn't like it? Don't know.

Don't worry about if it is that situation ....... this is how we track down stuff like this. All part of the deal. :)

Eventually we'll get this sorted. ;)

best,

...................john

PS: Yes the Actiontec unit has performed nicely for me. But I don't have too much basis to compare to... so take that recommendation with a grain of salt.

[Bob Reed]

Maybe this is the reason Trevor found a large number of empty beer bottles in his sim??:shock:

[ak49er]

Thanks JB for your response, now a noob question, why FSHost instead of VATSIM or IVAO, or "the zone" for that matter, pros and cons of each?

[JBaymore]

Maybe this is the reason Trevor found a large number of empty beer bottles in his sim??:shock:


:razz: :razz: :razz:

[Bob Reed]

With FSHost we can get together and fly without all the regiment of the others. In other words we want to get together and just fly around while we chat with each other we can. Trust me it is a lot of fun. You can not do that on the other systems they frown on it.

[Tim]

Hey John,

Ok, maybe I'm looking at this all wrong but I can not understand how my or your AIBridge/FS9 would keep anyone else from "connecting" to the server. Or could it?

The way I see it, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is this. I see a port opening as a channel for information to and from my computer to the FSHost server. If my ports are closed, I can neither send data to the server nor receive data from the server.

So, if my FS9 ports were closed I could not connect to the server to send my FS9 data to the server nor could I receive data on the server from other FS9 mulitplayers. I have no idea how that would prevent someone else from connecting.

Your mention of ongoing problems in general on other multiplayer hosts does make me feel somewhat better.

Regards,

Richard

[JBaymore]

Richard,


Last night you saw graphic evidence of MY AIBridge keeping you from connecting! :)

Even if the ports on a person's computer are not opened correctly, they can often connect to a FSHost session. That is well known. And sometimes they can't connect., It is erratic and not constant by any means.

Also well known is that fact that when someone who is connected does not have the ports configured properly, that can result in the "All players could not connect" message on people who try to connect AFTER that person.

I can't tell the the ins and outs of it....... WHY it happens....... but it's one of the things I have learned in 3 year s of online flying and talking with folks about multiplayer. From what I have heard... all the "blame" for this gets pointed at Microsoft (what else is new ;) )...... and supposedly poor coding of the fs2004 multiplayer code.

That issue might be one of the reasons that FSX was done to only work directly on Gamespy. Don't know though.

Read a lot of the forums on the net related to various FSHost servers... and you'll see scads of complaints about people connected preventing others from connecting. And lots of discussion of this whole :p "ports" issue. It is the bugaboo of FS2004 multiplayer. Sigh......... ;)

There is also a listing about this on the FAQ file on the main FSHost webpage.

best,

.....................john

[Bob Reed]

Because once you connect to the server, the data passes directly from your machine to mine, the server is just a pass through. So if my ports are open and yours are not, I can not get the data back I need from your FS and FS knows this, and sends the message " all players not reachable" and this message means that someone is connected to the server who is not passing all the ports.

[JBaymore]

Thanks JB for your response, now a noob question, why FSHost instead of VATSIM or IVAO, or "the zone" for that matter, pros and cons of each?

AK49er,

As was already said....... because of a much looser and tolerant format.

VATSIM is basically "real world" from what I can tell. While that is certainly desireable at one level, it is a lot of "pressure" to fully comply with all real world regs. I have enogh pressure in my life... I don;t need to add MORE. :shock:

On VATSIM, I'd barely be qualified to fly a C172 correctly knowing about and following all proceduires and such. And I'd have to do continuous study to keep current ........ just like in the real world. And I'd have to have current charts, and so on and so on.

All in all........ too much work ;) ,

On less formal servers... I can fly a regional jet reasonably sucessfully. And when I "screw up" I don't feel like a total failure....... I laugh it off.

PLUS... I find the setup of the system complicated and too much like taking a course at school. I find the docs at VATSIM great in their thoroughness... and totally overwhelming.

If I can find the time to get ready to do all that..... I'll go get my PPL. :D SO that is it in a nutshell for me.

Don't get me wrong, I take this simming pretty seriously. I try to follow correct procedures and such.......keep speeds to legal limits, follow altitude FL restrictions depending on direction of flight, watch airspace entry, and so on. I try to not "cook" my aircraft's engines ;) or slam it down hard. But there is a big difference between learning as you go ...... and basically having to already know before you get involved.

best,

.........................john

PS: The Zone is gone!

[JBaymore]

Because once you connect to the server, the data passes directly from your machine to mine, the server is just a pass through. So if my ports are open and yours are not, I can not get the data back I need from your FS and FS knows this, and sends the message " all players not reachable" and this message means that someone is connected to the server who is not passing all the ports.


Bob,

Hum....... thanks for the description.

So then.... my guess is that AIBridge is getting it's position data for a person's aircraft by reading that position from the transmitted data stream getting "reflected" back from the server directly from that person's computer.

There is probably a "handshake" involved between the AIBridge machine and the person's sim computer. If the handshake does not occur.... AIBridge just sits there waiting for the handshake to happen .... that never comes. Eventually it "times out".

If this general concept is correct, it is therefore a coding deficiency in AIBridge .... it does not expect to NOT get the handshake for a "plane" that it probably KNOWS is there from other parts of the data stream probably coming from FSHost itself.

Anyway,.,...... it does not SOLVE anything.... but it is a possible hypothesis.

Thanks.

best,

...................john