Panel recommendations

[Paul G]

Hi all,

After months of seeing my own attempt at a panel, I've resigned to the fact that unless I spend tens of thousands on various precision cutting tools and accessories, and learn to use them to expert level, I'd probably be better off buying my panels.

The good news is also the bad. There seems to be quite a few suppliers and without visiting one of the sim shows, I'm unsure which ones would be best.

Perhaps anyone who has bought a panel or 2 can say what you have, where you bought it from and whether you'd recommend. Also how much they go for if you can remember. I'm primarily interested in backlighting, which is where my own design squawks standby and disappears from radar.

I look forward to hearing from you.

All the best -

Paul

[ivar hestnes]

The "IBL" panels from flightdecksolutions are beatyful. You can send them a mail about pricing.

I have ordered IBL panels for overhead and mip. My mcp are already fitted with IBL. It is really amazing and have integrated backlighting with same bulbs as a real aircraft.

If you can afford it, this is the way to get the backlighting perfect:)

[Michael Carter]

I agree. I use real Boeing panels, and I can't tell the difference in the lighting. They are built in the same fashion as many Boeing sub-contractors built them.

[Paul G]

Ok thanks guys - certainly a plus for FDS.

Anyone else recommend a different supplier panel?

[Michael Carter]

Not if you want as close to the real thing as you are likely to get. I mean these panels look absolutely real. They have the correct contours on the corners and on the faces and edges. In addition, the type font is perfect.

[Paul G]

Hmmm detail is absolutely essential. I stupidly decided it was too expensive from the outset but now I've put a lot of time into something that's at best mediocre, and will require a lot of time to modify it to take an FDS solution.

FDS are in Canada aren't they?

[Westozy]

I will be producing MIPs to custom order but not until the beginning of 2008 unfortunately so I miss this sale! They will be machined from 6mm PVC sheeting. (Same as my own MIP in the pic)

Gwyn

[ekezz]

Also have a look at Engravity (flyengravity.com) as their panels and backlighting are awesome. My cousin saw it and said it was very close to the real thing, which shows more wear and tear from intensive usage. IRL he used to fly the 747, 737 and now on the A330.

[Trevor Hale]

Ok thanks guys - certainly a plus for FDS.

Anyone else recommend a different supplier panel?

Simulatory and Engravity would be my first choice Paul. Sorry but I am not fussed on FDS.

Trev

[ralmav]

Also look on Simparts www.simparts.de they have backlighting too and metal plates ..i love them.The Simparts site is temporarly down because they move to a new location, they´ll be back in the mid of june.
Look on my site if you want to see some pictures

[dcutugno]

My experience with FDS MCP IBL is great! Backlighting is perfect and awesome!

I think for realism FDS and Engravity at the moment are the best choice.

Also i'm struggling myself what i will go, as i have not saw any EBL(Engravity panel).

What you guys that have EBL panels how are they in comparison to FDS?

Have i to go at one show to see how are they each other?! (I don't think Engravity sends sample panel alone)

[Paul G]

I should probably be specific. I'm looking to build a 767 modelling after the Level D one. So that significantly reduces the choices. I know FDS have one, well two. A really cheap one at $300 and a very expensive one at $800. However the expensive one is metal faced and will look incredible.

Any other company do panels other than 737NG, e.g. 7X7 or A3X0?

[Trevor Hale]

No matter what you decide, I urge you to consider all your possibilities carefully.

This is a very important decision on your part, and I would hate to see you disappointed.

Good luck on your journey!

[dnoize]

EBL(Engravity panel).




just to set a very small thing straight its EPB for us...not EBL.....(never know what confusion this can bring.)

[W9XE/Project777]

Paul:

If the 767 is the project build you really only have one choice with FDS. You will need to email Peter and ask about the $299.00 MIP. This is the older Elite Series and I dont think they are available for purchase anymore. He has been deleting items not supported anymore and this may have been missed.

The one thing I found out in this hobby is you will have to be really patient to wait on parts availability. I had planned on a 717 at first but PM would not support so I switched to the 777. Been waiting 3 years for quality parts to become avaliable. Only FDS makes any 777 sim parts and I have to wait till there in the 777 builds before I can place an order. Getting closer and it looks like this year will be the year for me.

Many builders are now switching over to 737 because there is at least 3 plus companys making 737 parts. Just this pass weekend I heard of 2 really series 777 builders switching to 737 cause they can get parts.

Sometimes I think maybe the 737 woundn't be a bad choice since there is some nice suff out there. Then I get back to reallity and say stick with it, be patient, build what you want. In the mean time my Paypal account keeps growing :D

[Westozy]

Paul:

If the 767 is the project build you really only have one choice with FDS. You will need to email Peter and ask about the $299.00 MIP. This is the older Elite Series and I dont think they are available for purchase anymore. He has been deleting items not supported anymore and this may have been missed.

The one thing I found out in this hobby is you will have to be really patient to wait on parts availability. I had planned on a 717 at first but PM would not support so I switched to the 777. Been waiting 3 years for quality parts to become avaliable. Only FDS makes any 777 sim parts and I have to wait till there in the 777 builds before I can place an order. Getting closer and it looks like this year will be the year for me.

Many builders are now switching over to 737 because there is at least 3 plus companys making 737 parts. Just this pass weekend I heard of 2 really series 777 builders switching to 737 cause they can get parts.

Sometimes I think maybe the 737 woundn't be a bad choice since there is some nice suff out there. Then I get back to reallity and say stick with it, be patient, build what you want. In the mean time my Paypal account keeps growing :D

Just tell me what you need in January Larry/Paul, this is where I think "Aerosim Solutions" can fit in. MIPs & throttle quads...easy!

Gwyn

[mauriceb]

FDS are in Canada aren't they?

They sure are. And their prices are more than competitive, especially considering the quality of their products. Just visit their website and you'll see for yourself.

Maurice

[Michael Carter]

Gywn, I may be needing a Bendix WX radar display panel bezel. Seems Nick at APHS can't hook me up with this radar display either. He claims it was only installed in third-party aircraft or private 727's.

BS. This was a standard Bendix WX display in most of the Boeing fleet and airlines ordered them by the dozen for a certain time frame.

I can give dimensions if you need them as this radar display is hard to find measurments for and is not found on many remaining 727's. Most have been upgraded with more sophisticated WX.

[Michael Carter]

They sure are. And their prices are more than competitive, especially considering the quality of their products. Just visit their website and you'll see for yourself.

Maurice

Yes, it is a very accurate product of the highest quality. I just wonder about their attutude sometimes.

I know you are also a member at the FDS forum as I am. I don't post much there anymore because of percieved attutudes at that site.

I'm not one of the "elite" in crowd because I don't use their products. They don't build anything for my aircraft, but I still enjoy the posting and help when I'm not chastised for doing so from the owners.

I think FDS needs to remember that they are there for you and not the other way around.

[mauriceb]

I think FDS needs to remember that they are there for you and not the other way around.

I don't know about your experience, but as a customer of theirs, they've always been there for me & I have never had any bad experiences with their way of doing business . On the contrary, they bend over backwards to resolve any issues and I have seen tons of evidence about that, and I also know for a fact that the great majority of their customers would back me up on that.

They are on the cutting edge of innovation for the builders and sometimes they may get behind on delivering their orders, but they always come through. When they do get behind, that's because they are busy developing new products for big commercial customers who end up paying most of the development costs for which their regular private customers benefit in the end.

I live close to their shop and I can tell you this isn't a big conglomerate with millions of dollars to spend on R&D & manufacture. They are a very small group of very dedicated & passionate people and I have nothing but the greatest respect for them. But like any business, they sometimes get in difficult situations with some customers or would be customers. Expecting perfection from them or anyone else for that matter is highly unrealistic in my opinion anyway. And I'm saying that as a customer & not as an employee or as someone affiliated with them in any way & this is strictly my personal opinion :) .

Maurice

[Westozy]

Gywn, I may be needing a Bendix WX radar display panel bezel. Seems Nick at APHS can't hook me up with this radar display either. He claims it was only installed in third-party aircraft or private 727's.

BS. This was a standard Bendix WX display in most of the Boeing fleet and airlines ordered them by the dozen for a certain time frame.

I can give dimensions if you need them as this radar display is hard to find measurments for and is not found on many remaining 727's. Most have been upgraded with more sophisticated WX.

Do you have pics and dimensions?

Gwyn

[Michael Carter]

Hi Gwyn, here it is:

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/boeing722/BendixWXRadar.jpg

This is the type that is modeled in the Dreamfleet 727 using the Reality XP WX Radar.

I'm not in any hurry for it, just something for the near future. I'll send or post dimensions when I figure them out.

[Westozy]

I could make that for you easy Mike when you have the dimensions.

Gwyn

[Paul G]

...I know you are also a member at the FDS forum as I am. I don't post much there anymore because of percieved attutudes at that site.

I'm not one of the "elite" in crowd because I don't use their products. They don't build anything for my aircraft, but I still enjoy the posting and help when I'm not chastised for doing so from the owners.

I think FDS needs to remember that they are there for you and not the other way around.

I really couldn't agree more. I asked a simple question about a year ago and got such an incredibly rude and ellitist response, I couldn't let it pass. Next thing it seemed like the entire Forum was on me like a pack of lions. ThenI got a warning from P. Cos and was subsequently banned from the forum.

Considering that I am in fact a commercially rated pilot, I took quite a bit of offense myself, especially as some of the comments implied I didn't know what I was talking about, and were probably from non-commercially rated pilots.

I still visit their site on the grounds that they are about the only provider that makes panels for the aircraft I'm interested in. However, after a year, I'm still questioning whether I want to spend any money with them, especially a sizeable chunk. Admittedly it wasn't really FDS so much as the people on their forum, but it reflected badly on the company in my eyes.

Now that Level D have released 767 for FSX, I'm going to look how much it is to get a precision panel cut and etched for backlighting effects. If it works out reasonable I will consider this as a sideline, although won't be quitting my day job for a while yet.

[steve diamond]

use engravity panels the best by far ,i had to redrill the fds ones to fit the real overhead dzus rails,engravity fit smack on,

[Michael Carter]

I really couldn't agree more. I asked a simple question about a year ago and got such an incredibly rude and ellitist response, I couldn't let it pass. Next thing it seemed like the entire Forum was on me like a pack of lions. ThenI got a warning from P. Cos and was subsequently banned from the forum.




Yes, it doesn't take long for a feeding frenzy to start over there.

I too am a commercially rated pilot, and some of the BS I read over there from time to time boggles the mind.

[Bob Reed]

Ok, lets get this thread back on track. Picking a panel manufacturer is going to be one of the hardest things you do. So take your time do some research and like you did here, talk to others. Who have you looked at so far?

[mauriceb]

use engravity panels the best by far ,i had to redrill the fds ones to fit the real overhead dzus rails,engravity fit smack on,

Boeing is a big repeat customers of FDS, so their stuff can't be all that bad. But as with any other hardware, everyone has their favourites and that is absolutely the way it should be.

You may think Toyotas are the greatest cars around and others think Honda or whoever else are the best. It all comes down to personal preference in the end and in the end, everyone is ususally right in their own heads about their choices.

I think it's called cognitive dissonance. You make up all kinds or reasons after the fact to justify your decisions, especially when it comes to big purchases like a car or a house (or a flight deck for that matter :wink:

By the way, I don't think there is anything wrong about expressing your opinions about a product. But please let's keep personal attacks on any vendor out of this forum. This is really disturbing to those who may have a good relationship with that vendor and it does not serve any useful purpose at all when it comes to bettering the choices that we have when building flight decks.

There has been tremendous progress on many sides that make all our lives much easier and starting a 'feeding frenzy' to attack anyone serves no useful purpose in my opinion. I think most of us are pretty much grown up enough to make intelligent choices on our own without being influenced by anyone's vendetta with any particular supplier.

As for me, I will buy whatever product from whoever can supply the best quality product at the most competitive price, and I swear allegiance to no one in particular :)

Maurice

[Michael Carter]

Well, just stating what I've seen there.

But you're right, I buy what will work and have no one supplier for everything. If I thought FDS would work for me, I'd buy it in a second regardless of their forum. It's an excellent product and very realistic. Panels from other suppliers I've seen on the various forums and builder's sites are very good too.

It's unfortunate though, that more real equipment is not available for the newer airliners. I suppose it is, for a price, but real parts from current aircraft are prohibitively expensive for the average builder.

Parts are not always cheap for out of production aircraft either.

[mauriceb]

It's unfortunate though, that more real equipment is not available for the newer airliners. I suppose it is, for a price, but real parts from current aircraft are prohibitively expensive for the average builder.

Parts are not always cheap for out of production aircraft either.

You're obviously taken the 'Road Less Travelled' in your project :). The end result I'm sure will be a much more realistic environment and I admire your determination to go that route with all the inherent road blocks that this entails.

But as long as the FAA & other organizations insist on not wanting to see planes fall out of the sky because of shoddy materials, parts will always be prohibitively expensive.

What is not clear though is why used parts that can no longer be used in functioning airplanes remain so expensive as well. If it's just a question of supply & demand, there must be a **** of a lot of flight deck builders as well wanting to use real parts, or else, who is buying these used parts? Just does not make sense to me :roll:

Maurice

[Michael Carter]

A lot of parts are rotables and have a high core value for refurb.

Similar to going to the local auto parts store and buying an alternator or starter with a core charge. If you don't have your old one, you get charged for the core.

There are a lot of 727's still flyng internationally as well as cargo operations in the States that still make these parts expensive, but for the most part, not out of financial reach for a determined builder.