Started on my crew seat

[Michael Carter]

Not really much to look at right now, but I'll post progress photos. I'm modeling this on the older Weber Boeing 727/737 seats from the '70's and '80's

Haven't decided yet on which base to build. It might be a hybrid.

Please tell me your opinions on this fabric color and texture I've included. This is as close as I've found so far to the right color. It's Duck Egg blue.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/boeing722/mycrewseat1.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/boeing722/duckeggblue.jpg

[Trevor Hale]

Looks good BSW.

It is like a carpet material?

I really like the shape of the crew seat. Are you going to place a 4" Foam on it?

Looking forward to more pictures.

Trev

[jmig]

Please tell me your opinions on this fabric color and texture I've included. This is as close as I've found so far to the right color. It's Duck Egg blue.



Can't say much on the carpet color. However, I am HAPPY to see I am not the only one with a lived in, worked in workshop :)

[Michael Carter]

I can't tell how close up the photo was taken, but I noticed the same thing about the texture. It looks like loop-pile carpeting. It's supposed to be upholstery fabric.

I'm going to call them in the morning since they are right across the river in STL.

A set of seat covers made by Coastal Aircraft is over $1,400. I'm pretty sure I'll be doing my own upholstery. :roll:

That's only one side of the shop! The e-lab bench is opposite the wood bench. It's not a very big shop; I'm pressed for room even to get a 4x8 sheet on the bucks, but it fits. I love working in my shop.

Tomorrow, I'm building the bottom edge framework, and then the bolsters (for lack of a better term) will be built underneath the bottom edge framework. Attaching the back securely is going to be a snap.

[Michael Carter]

Looks good BSW.

It is like a carpet material?

I really like the shape of the crew seat. Are you going to place a 4" Foam on it?

Looking forward to more pictures.

Trev


I'm using 3" hi-density polyurethane foam for both the seat pan cushion and the back. The seat cover material is going to snap on around the bottom framework like the originals.

Nick is holding a shoulder harness and reel retractor assembly for me at APHS.

[Bob Reed]

So along with pics, are you going to give is a few drawings so the rest of us can do this?

[Michael Carter]

I would if I had any, but I will take measuements and post tomorrow. And I'll continue to post dimensions as each piece is finalized and installed.

While surfing some sim sites, I ran across a builder who did a couple for his sim. They are pretty plain seats on a budget, but I used his basic dimensions for the seat pan and back. I had to start somewhere and I can't find dimensions for these seats anywhere. His dimensions seem proportional from the many photos of these seats I've managed to accmulate.

I increased the length of the seatpan by 2" so I had more butt and leg on the seat before the bend in the knee, as his dimensions were a little on the short side for me, and I'm of average build. (175 Lbs, 5'-10") I also used my office chair seat dimensions to find out what would be comfortable while staying within what looked like the original design.

I don't have a clue how big these seats really are, but this one is gonna fit my butt, legs, and back in comfort.

[Gsey]

I have a couple of 747 seats here which i can take measurements of if you like. They are the older webber type. As for the material I dont like that one very much. There are better ones out there for sure. I may be able to get you some of the real stuff. let me see tomorrow what I can do. And 4" of foam would be better that 3". Just glue two 2" together. Thats all we do.

Gary

[brissydave]

yep..ya just have to fiddle with the dimensions to make them "look" right.
i used 3 inch foam aswell...i didnt realise how expensive foam can be.

the weave of that sample doesnt look too bad. some seats have an almost hesian look to them....but grey in colour...just like the sample.
once a strip of sheepskin is applied it will all look fab.

its very hard to judge everything...but when the seats are in place...you find that you cant see much of them anyway...so thats kinda good/or bad seeing that i put so much work in.

i have used car recliner mechanisms to join the back rest on underneath. so at least they are adjustable. i also have used car seat rails for the time being too. until i gett off my *** and do some j style slider thingy.

btw you can already tell that they are going to look perfect from the pics....good on ya big fella...nice one.

everyone sees seats as a massive too hard thing....they are easy as.

dont forget to use the light cotton wool looking stuff as the underlay for the seat covers. or else the foam looks a bit dodgy without it.

[Michael Carter]

Well, I'll be using the 3" foam for the chair since I already have some left over from this build:
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/boeing722/CommCon4.jpg

As Dave said, foam is expensive and I can't let this go to waste. Thanks for the tip on the cotton cover for the foam before the upholstery material goes on.

Back to the shop.

[JBaymore]

That last one looks like it is from the bridge of the Federation Starship Enterprise! Where's Kirk? :wink:

best,

...................john

[Bob Reed]

He's dead Jim.... I love that show!!

[Michael Carter]

I sold that chair on E-bay for $1700. The round base material hadn't arrived yet from the mill.

[NicD]

Which button is for "flush" :p:D

[JBaymore]

He's dead Jim.... I love that show!!


Bob,

Oh my god... have I got a link for YOU then!

http://www.angelfire.com/fl/sapringer/STARTREKKIN.html

ENJOY!

best,

........................john

PS: Edit........ and while I am at it: http://www.angelfire.com/fl/sapringer/MOT2.html

[Michael Carter]

Here are some progress photos.

I really though I was going to get to the back today, but the seat pan and the lower supports took longer than I though it would. Cutting foam takes awhile too.

Dimensions follow the last photo.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/boeing722/mycrewseat6.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/boeing722/mycrewseat5.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/boeing722/mycrewseat4.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/boeing722/mycrewseat3.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/boeing722/mycrewseat2.jpg

Seat pan width is 50cm
Depth is 59cm (you won't be sitting on all of that, some is for the seat back to rest on)
Forward thigh supports are 14cm long by 17cm wide.
Yoke cutout is 16cm wide
The seat pan narrows to 46cm at the rear using hard angles not curves. Sorry, I don't know the angle. I eyeballed it.

Seat back is 70cm tall
46cm wide at the bottom and narrows to 36.5cm at the top.
The height of the seat back is 33cm before is starts to narrow. I think I narrowed it an inch and a half on both sides. That measurement I couldn't take as the chair sits now.

The seat pan is 10cm tall. It is made from 3" wide plywood sandwiched between two 1/2" layers, one for the seat and one for the bottom.

The lower supports are 17-1/8" long on the top edge and 11-3/4" on the bottom edge. They are each 6" tall. Again, the angle was eyeballed from photos I have of the Weber seat.

Sorry about the mixed dimensions. I work in both metric and imperial units.

If I left out anything please ask.

[Westozy]

Electric knives are great for cutting foam, that's if you can sneak it out of the kitchen!

Gwyn

[jmig]

...Sorry about the mixed dimensions. I work in both metric and imperial units.

What about real English numbers, American? :p

It is beginning to look good. Speaking of seat covers. Does anyone know where you can get the green canvas looking cloth they use in military seat cushions?

[Michael Carter]

Get a duffle bag, though that might be a bit thick. It'll last forever though! :mrgreen:

I've got some thin sheet plastic I got from work as a throw away. I'm going to laminate the wood for a smooth surface. I'm thinking of using aluminum flashing too, but it's thinner than the plastic and I don't think it will hold up as well.

[Michael Carter]

More work today...

Nick at APHS is sending me a new inertial reel harness for the shoulder straps on Friday.

The detail isn't so great on the thigh supports, but I don't have any close-ups to work from, only shots from several feet away. This took several hours to fabricate from making the brackets and cutting aluminum channel to making sure everything lined up properly

The plastic laminate around the circumference of the seat back frame will fill in the curves at the top of the seat and it will extend about an inch forward of the edge of the seat back. The seat cushion will sort of sit inside a small alcove, if you will. I may fibreglass the corners with matting after it's installed to increase the strength of the corners.

The seat back cushion will me mounted on a separate piece of 1/8" plywood and Velcro'ed to the 1/2" seat back plywood so it can be removed for cleaning.

Nick gave me the dimensions of he inertial reel harness so I do the layout for the slots in the top od the seat. I think I'm going to narrow these a bit down to 3/8" or so.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/boeing722/mycrewseat8.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/boeing722/mycrewseat9.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/boeing722/mycrewseat10.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/boeing722/mycrewseat11.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/boeing722/mycrewseat12.jpg

WOW! What a difference this make and it's not even finished!

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/boeing722/mycrewseat13.jpg

[QF6228]

Your seats are coming up real good, the time and effort is really showing..

Looks like a nice omega watch 2 ;) , I just got myself the speedmaster....

Damien

[Michael Carter]

It's the 2531.80 Seamaster Bond model. I love it and it keeps time within spec.

[Garys]

Looking great, I do aircraft interiors for a living so if you need any help I will be happy to help.

Gary

[Michael Carter]

You could tell me where I could get the original type seat material. Thanks!

[Garys]

Sent you a PM.

Gary

[Michael Carter]

ThankS Gary!

[Michael Carter]

Wow, I just heard back from Spectra. They have the Boeing spec seat material. I'll be ordering it in around two weeks.

Here is the e-mail I got from Robin:

Hi, Michael,

3158-1701 is a drapery fabric and not suited to upholstery.

I do have some fabric that is the actual 727 cockpit seat fabric. It does take about 1.5 LY per seat placement; fabric width is 54 inches.

Price for this material in cut yardage (less than half-rolls of 25 LY) is $49.95 per LY. Terms are cash before delivery, plus a $25.00 UPS delivery charge.

If you are interested let me know. I'll research the part number and email that back to you.

Best regards,

Robin Butler
Spectra Interior Products, Inc.
1949 Stonewood Drive
Winston-Salem, NC 27103
www.Spectra-IP.com
336-794-3030 Tel
336-794-3034 Fax

[Michael Carter]

If anyone needs this material, the pattern number is C29374/44. It is called Gray Honeycomb.

It is the actual seat material used on the Boeing aircraft when in gray.

[Michael Carter]

I made and attached the arms this morning. They're held on with 5/16" bolts. The heads have been countersunk and JB Welded into the armrests. They attach from the inside and are double nutted. When its time to button up the back, they will be Loc-Tite'd so they don't back off.

They look a little thin right now, but after a layer of padding and the vinyl covering is added I think they will fill out to what looks more normal.

They are just ripped 2"x4"'s

The inertial reel harness is on the way too.

Armrests are 17-3/4" long, 1/2" thick at the front and 2" thick at the back. They are attached 9-1/8" up from the base of the seat back.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/boeing722/mycrewseat14.jpg

[Tomlin]

Really nice looking seats Michael, good job there!

Im planning on getting some older Honda or Jeep seats for the Learjet, and possibly cutting out the column area, and covering with faux sheepskin to hid the cut.

[ivar hestnes]

Your seat is looking very nice BSW. You are doing very good work and you obviously do alot of research to get it as real as possible.

I love it:)

[Michael Carter]

Thanks! I found these brackets in my shop. I don't remember what they were for, but I made good use of them for my chair supports. Now I can add some additional support members to try and replicate the rest of the suspension system.

It's bolted down to the 2x4's because it was still an 1-1/2" too short. It's right at 22" at the knee bend now. Right where I need it.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/boeing722/mycrewseat15.jpg

The inertial reel shoulder harness I purchased from Nick at APHS:

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/boeing722/inertialreelharness.jpg

[JBaymore]

Not to pry too much... and you DON'T have to answer this ;)... just ignore it.... but what kind of price (ballpark) are you talking about on that shoulder harness setup?

Thanks either way.

best,

..............john

[Gsey]

http://www.angelfire.com/il2/aphs/forsale/forsale.html

Not bad considering brand new these things are up towards the $1000 dollar mark.

Gary

[Michael Carter]

$80 with shipping. Brand new in the box.

With a little patients, I hope to have my seat looking better than those. Even if they are the real Webers.

[Gsey]

$80 bucks brand new.... wholely smokes... You would be gobbsmaked with the price of the recent purchase order we just made for 3 of these things from Pacific scientific. Nick is certainly a great asset to this hobby thats for sure.

Gary

[Michael Carter]

I would't be as far as I am without him, or Bill and Snap at e-Bay.

[James Twomey]

Well, I have to add my two cents worth here! That is NICE work! Once I get done building my own throttles, I might have to have a go at my seats. Once again, NICE! :mrgreen:

James

[Westozy]

Those belts will stop you falling out of the chair drunk! That's a good thing about simming, no 8 hours from bottle to throttle - into it. All Aussie sims are built with beer holders obviously, the trouble is I keep falling asleep at the wheel and usually wake up to the spool down sounds when I'm out of gas somewhere totally lost!

Gwyn

[James Twomey]

oh my GAWD.....I dont have belts.......have had plenty of beer though!!!!!!:cool:

[JBaymore]

BSW,

Thanks. I'm amazed. Most real aircraft parts I have looked at cost a leg, an arm, and your right "you know what". ;)

Gwyn,.......you ought to get that sound gfor your regular alarm clock. ;)

best,

.................john

[Michael Carter]

http://www.angelfire.com/il2/aphs/forsale/forsale.html

Not bad considering brand new these things are up towards the $1000 dollar mark.

Gary

I just saw Pacific Scientific's .pdf price list.

I need the seat belts just to keep from falling out of my chair after seeing the prices. :shock:

$2085.00 for a dual-reel and harness. Only aound $680 if all you want is a lap belt. Probably a passenger seat at that. There wasn't much description with the part numbers.

Sure glad a guy like Nick is around. When I see prices like those it makes me appreciate his business all that much more.

I won't even get into Korry indicator pricing. Suffice it to say I'm extremely fortunate that every Korry or Eaton switch or indicator aboard my sim is real.

[Gsey]

Crazy hey, When you see prices like that it just makes you appreciate the guys even more who offer great products at great prices.

Gary

[Michael Carter]

Nick is selling the five-point for $50 that includes the lap and crotch belts with the five point buckle right out of a 727 he's logged time in with American.

He logged over 1,000 hours in the aircraft my control wheel came from.

Nice to have some history with the parts you buy. That's hard to come by with FDS or anyone else's aftermarket stuff.

[Michael Carter]

Some arm rest work.

Paint is wrinkle finish. Arm pads are just 1/4" closed-cell foam on 1/4" MFD covered with vinyl.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/boeing722/mycrewseat31.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/boeing722/mycrewseat32.jpg

Sorry for the blurries...too much coffee this morning all ready.

[Matt Olieman]

Usually got the shakes when I don't get enough coffee :)

Looks fabulous!!!!!!! :) :) :)

[jmig]

That seat is outstanding!

[Michael Carter]

Nick at APHS sent the wrong reel retractor/harness assembly. The biuckles will not mate to the five point harness buckle so he told me to send it back.

As a bonus though, he's sending out another reel retractor/harness with black belts AND the five-point harness all together.

The new one was sent today and I shipped the other one back. I do wish they would have been gray belts, but I guess it will be a good contrast with the gray seat material.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/boeing722/mycrewseat34.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/boeing722/mycrewseat37.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/boeing722/mycrewseat35.jpg

[Tomlin]

Nice Seat There!

[Michael Carter]

Got the cushions taken care of tonight. The material a very thin Rayon that is attached with 3M 77 spray adhesive. I hope the upholstery material is thick enough to cover the imperfections in my foam cutting abilities.



http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/boeing722/mycrewseat41.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/boeing722/mycrewseat39.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/boeing722/mycrewseat40.jpg

[Matt Olieman]

Soooooooo IMPRESSIVE :)

[Trevor Hale]

Looks Good Mike. I am sure you will be very happy with the end result. Are you going to have the final finishing material upholstered by a professional, with those plugs or rivets?

[Michael Carter]

No, I'm going to wing it myself.

I'm going to cut patterns for the material in the next day or two using some close-ups that Joe sent me of his seats. The bottom seat cushion material is Velcro'ed to the bottom inside edge of the seat pan.

I always thought they were held on with snaps.

Like I said though, I hope the imperfections in the foam don't show through.

[Michael Carter]

Reproduction of the data plate on the back of the seat. Original supplied by Nick at APHS.

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/boeing722/WeberDataPlate.jpg

[vidarf]

Just a small tip from a guy working in a furniture shop:

Use a thin layer (10 mm or so) of fibre-cloth (kind of a wadding sheet) over the foam. That will get rid of the "imperfections". The fibre-cloth should be glued to the foam with spray-glue for best effect. It will not add to the thickness of your seat, and it will be flat as a pancake when you sit on it. But it smooths the surface very nice - and it lift the fabric off the foam, so any moisture will dry up fast.

The fabric should be cut in pieces corresponding to the various shapes. I would cut one piece for the seat top, one for each side and one for all the small square areas in the yoke cutout. Remember to add an inch on all sides.
When you are sewing the pieces together (for pete's sake, use a sewing machine!), do it on the inverse side (using LOTS of pins to keep the fabric in place). Make two runs - the first one with a thin thread, the second with a thicker one. Cut away excess fabric.

By doing it this way, you'll get a VERY decent look - and you will keep the sharp edges as well.

Another thing you could do (but it will require a lot of work) is to cut a strip of fabric, fold it in two lenghtwise and place between the seams. This is known as a "contrast chain" (not sure about the terminology here).

Good luck! This was truly inspiring! :)

Oh, and you may very well write a tutorial with measurements, please! :) I live in Norway, and it is VERY difficult to get hold of a real seat - at least if I want to stay in the sane end of the pricerange...

[Trevor Hale]

Vidarf,

Thanks for the excellent advice for Mike. I wouldn't have expected we would have a member from a furniture shop on board. Thats fantastic. I have one quick question though? Would you create the seat cover as if it was a slip on, removable type of thing that goes over each part? Or would you completely sew it around each of the entire foam portions?


Thanks,

Trev

[Michael Carter]

Thanks for the tips vidarf. In another thread I have photos of the foam covered in Rayon fabric in preparation for the seat upholstery.

The material will be cut as used on the real seats (or at least as close as I can tell from photos). The top is a separate piece, and the side panel seems to be one continuous piece running the circumference of the seat cushion.

The back edge of the seat material will fold under the cushion and be sewn to the edge of the flaps that Velcro to the underside of the seat edge.

The back cushion is cut the same way except the whole cushion is covered and the bottom edge will have a Velcro flap to close it up.

[vidarf]

I would use velcro, but if that doesn't work too well I would clamp the fabric directly onto the wooden frame (that's what done on furniture).
And I would make it as a "slipover". That's also how furniture makers do it. In fact, I've seen some sofa's where the fabric has been made like a slipover - with a zipper at the back. Not to make a fancy look, but to make it easy to assemble the thing. :)

I'll tell you, working with furniture has learned me a LOT! And I use lots of that knowledge in my simulator.
Plus - I have access to huge amounts of free material; Wood, screws, bolts...

A good tip for you guys: Talk to your local furniture shop, they migh have spare parts they want to get rid of. You can save a lot of money that way!

[Chester33]

How well can a cushion be made with good looking and very attractive. What is the range of cost. :D

[Anderson/SBSP]

Very nice!!!

[01pewterz28]

Very nice work you have done if anyone is in the market for some 727 seats I picked up a complete seat in excellent condition (frame, belts, seat bottom/back, seat back cushion the only thing missing was the seat bottom cushion and fabric. I already have 2 yards of fabric on the way from Spectra Grey Honeycomb Boeing fabric $39.99 per yard.

I picked up my seat for $250 + $90 shipping from VCV to Orlando, FL

http://www.scrogginsaviation.com/sales.html I spoke to Doug out of the Las Vegas office. He said he had 5 seats left this is from an Ex UAL 727

Sean

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