Cheap and easy FSX motion system

[Jim NZ]

I've been pretty quite the last few months as "bloody old Erich" and myself have been working on a plan to cater for cheap and easy motion for FSX. ... Well we found it !!!
The concept is so simple and easy, it makes my original FS9 unit look super complicated.
Take a look at the specs of the KT5198 ... It can be feed with DAC, RC or serial . Little ripper we thought. Now to just have inputs from the position pots and a few more outputs/inputs for "other things" ,, well, what better board than the K8055, a card that a lot of people will already have.
Both of the above cards are cheap and can be purchased as a kit or already built up. (From different outlets)

We have tossed together a "plan" on...

http://www.jimspage.co.nz/plan.htm

I am doing my own software and its getting near the "beta testing" stage, but I put forward a challenge to the software guru's out there to also make something to suit. We tend to think this "hardware" line up is so stupidly simple and easy, it will be around for quite some time and be a basis of simmers getting into cheap motion ,, and to have different "takes" on the software to drive it would be an added bonus. !!!

Happy pondering ... Jim NZ (With a shove from "Bloody old Erich" :) :) )

[AndyT]

So you need Beta testers? Or would you like to see other versions that do the same thing?

Also, you should write and ask if the Vellman card works with XP since it says this:
"Windows 98SE or higher (Win NT excluded)" Win XP is based on NT.

[Jim NZ]

No, we dont need beta testers. The posting is the outcome of months of head-scratching, so just passing this info on, which may help someone else.

The Velleman works fine with their test program and also my program on XP.

I do all my programming on Vista and again, their test program and my software works fine.

[wannabeaflyer]

No, we dont need beta testers. The posting is the outcome of months of head-scratching, so just passing this info on, which may help someone else.

The Velleman works fine with their test program and also my program on XP.

I do all my programming on Vista and again, their test program and my software works fine.

Hi Jim Thought christmas came early yesterday when i saw your latest Post talk about just waht the doctor ordered LOL:- this weekend started Building My K8055 USB Kit and shes getting there fingers crossed i'll have it done soon. Sun Came out Little lady wanted er demanded we make hay while the sun shines as it were so Spent precious build time round the local Car Boot Sales LOL (er me thinks No contest comes to mind) any ways i got back in and checked my ebay bidding and i had won a Velleman K8000 ifc Card and was majorly Happy cos now i belive i have all the bases covered and some extra Options for various experiments Card recieved yesterday and tested and working so basically got the old paralell port option and the soon to be completed USB option. Love the stuff you updated on your website and am now looking for a UK supplier for the Dual Motor controller card yous have recomended ( seen a couple of options similar but different makes ) so will keep looking. My Biggest Work now is that my actuators may not be up to the job as the weight of the cockpit grows ( no thats not just me putting on weight) any other ideas for Beefing up the motors (like your dual motor drive but how did you synch the motor speeds guessing no 2 run at exactly the same speed so one my tug or be dragged by the other ? ) .. Cheers Jim thanks for leading the way as always .

[kjg71]

Jim,

Good find on the KT-5198. I had not seen that one

I use a similar controller (but much smaller in size), it's a a single motor controller though. It is $30 US.

http://www.newmicros.com/index2.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newmicros.com%2Fcgi-bin%2Fstore%2Forder.cgi%3Fform%3Dprod_detail%26part%3DNMIH-0050%26id%3D3U01s0mO0I332Gl3gpwV5nU7O5cc2W84

They also have a duel controller that I am using for surge that handles 7 amps - 20 for 3 sec. (if needed).

http://www.newmicros.com/index2.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newmicros.com%2Fcgi-bin%2Fstore%2Forder.cgi%3Fform%3Dprod_detail%26part%3DD-Rex

New micros is a U.S. company so not sure if shipping would cost a lot...others might find these a possible solution so I figured I'd through the links out.

I'll have to look for at the KT-5198 cause I like the high amp support the MOSFETS have ........50 amps if you connect directly to them.....wow! might be good if you thought you would ever peak 40amps (don't know why someone would go that high)....but nice to have a buffer.(modification of course) the 10 amp at the terminals is a nice spec.

I use the K8055 and it is a great card. Very easy to assembly if you go the kit route. This is a very affordable card for what you get. Definately my #1 reccomendation to anyone.

Your plan is very similar to what I am working on, but I am using the K8055 as the PWM controller for the motor controllers.

Just curious, Is there a reason you are going direct to the ocean board? and only using K8055 for A2D inputs. Seems like if you had a K8055 that you would just want to run everything through that with just a USB connection.

Regards, Kyle

[Dutchboy]

Does anyone know of a dealer in Canada, or somewhat close in the US that would have these boards? This may be what I have been looking for. I think I have abandoned my AC 3 phase idea.

Thanks,

Dutchboy

[kjg71]

Dutchboy,

Probably the best source is below...actually they are the only ones I know off that offer it assembled....well ...assembled for less then $100 anyway

http://www.apogeekits.com/usb_interface.htm

not sure on the KT-5198 board have to research that one in bit...I'll let you know if I run into a good supplier

Regards, Kyle

[Dutchboy]

Thanks Kyle. I may just get the KT-5198 and use the serial input to control the motors. I already have an 8bit 8 channel analog input for my pots, so I don't need the K8055.

I found a source that will ship to Canada and it's reasonably priced. They also have the assembled version of the K8055.

http://store.qkits.com/moreinfo.cfm/KT-5198A

I ordered it and should get it shortly.

Dutchboy




Dutchboy,

Probably the best source is below...actually they are the only ones I know off that offer it assembled....well ...assembled for less then $100 anyway

http://www.apogeekits.com/usb_interface.htm

not sure on the KT-5198 board have to research that one in bit...I'll let you know if I run into a good supplier

Regards, Kyle

[kjg71]

Dutchboy,

The more I look at KT-5198, the more I kind of like it. Looks like they even give you the custom serial cable connections....that's cool


D9 Female IDC socket 1
10-pin IDC Header Connector 1
9-wire IDC Ribbon 120mm

I will probably stick with what I have now, but are going to keep my eye on this one.

.......be interesting to see what others are able to send through it as far as amperage, as the manual sais 2 Amps may start some heat (at least this is what they say to watch for when you first get it and you know your motors pull that). And then they say 6 amps as the max, but then the web specs say 10 amp.....kind of confusing....be interesting to see if folks end up having to add different heatsinks on those MOSFETS.

just curious what board are you going with for your A2D inputs (pot connections)?

Kyle

[Dutchboy]

Holy smoke! I received my KT5198A from http://store.qkits.com already! I always order express shipping from the US (I'm in Canada) because it ends up costing the same for me anyhow because UPS sends me a nice bill.

It's fully assembled, and is very well built. I will be attempting to run some small motors with it and my C# Simconnect application this weekend. I'll post a movie or some pics if all goes well.

Kyle, Jim_NZ mentioned on his site (http://www.jimspage.co.nz/plan.htm) that after "beefing up the tracks" that it could handle more amperage. I'm hoping this can be done without pushing the board too far. You could always put some large heat syncs and fans to help with the extra heat. I'm also thinking that 10amps would be nice to get out of this unit.

As for my pot inputs. I'm using the 10-bit joystick controller from Leo Bodner http://www.lbodnar.dsl.pipex.com/joystick
Works great with my pedals right now. I see he has a 12 bit version now. I may have to pick one of those up! :)

Dutchboy




Dutchboy,

The more I look at KT-5198, the more I kind of like it. Looks like they even give you the custom serial cable connections....that's cool


D9 Female IDC socket 1
10-pin IDC Header Connector 1
9-wire IDC Ribbon 120mm

I will probably stick with what I have now, but are going to keep my eye on this one.

.......be interesting to see what others are able to send through it as far as amperage, as the manual sais 2 Amps may start some heat (at least this is what they say to watch for when you first get it and you know your motors pull that). And then they say 6 amps as the max, but then the web specs say 10 amp.....kind of confusing....be interesting to see if folks end up having to add different heatsinks on those MOSFETS.

just curious what board are you going with for your A2D inputs (pot connections)?

Kyle

[kjg71]

Dutchboy,

The BU0836 Controller is pretty cool! I have not really thought of using a joystick control circuit as input as I personally would need to figure out how to get it working at the same time the game controller is......normally not an issue for some, but right now my code can only using one joystick device at a time.

I also use another controller called ezio. It is quite pricey and I would not reccomend it over K8055 but it does have an advantage. It is a very easy microcontroller with 8 A2D inputs plus then some. Again very pricey compared to what is out their now, but I bought it when student price was $99. Here is a link in case anyone wanted to check it out...but overpriced now for what it is. IF K8055 had a few more A2D ports it would be just perfect.

http://www.ezio.com

since you are using BU0836, I assume your C# Simconnect application works with multiple joystick devices already?

It would be nice if KT5198A had two A2D inputs to go with the rest of it. Then you would have all in one board! (Encoder / logic / high amp PWM output / Digital input/kill switch). A lower cost single motor version would be great to. This board is new, so who knows?

anyway good luck with the new KT5198A appears to be a good controller.

Regards, Kyle

[Jim NZ]

Hi Guys, sorry for the delay in a couple of questions ,, work !! I can be away for a week sometimes.
Firstly, I have updated my "plan" page on my website ,, it gives insight into some of the research and playing we done, might be of help to some one.

http://www.jimspage.co.nz/plan.htm

Calvin, re the twin motors,, yes, you need to get the same make and model and even then there is a difference but a small difference is not a problem. Both my "twins" do actually run at different speeds so one "push's" or "pulls" the other. As long as the chain is tight and the total draw of amps isn't silly then all seems well. I was luck though,, I can get the motors for "free" but if anyone had to actually buy them, then it would be better in the long run to buy proper motor/gearbox's for the job or do it some other way. Good to see ya still plugging away. !

Kyle ,, re the PWM's out of the Velleman, directly feeding the other board ,,, this is been added to my web page, but the simplicity is,, it would add an unwanted 20ms delay to the motor response time. Yes the 8055 is a very robust card ,, I have put mine thru **** with all the experiments and it survived, so for easy programming and adaptability it was my first choise but we still looked at everything on the market within a price.

Dutchboy ,, Good to see you've taken up the "challenge" ,, you wont be dissapointed !! .. yes I found the 5198 on the 11th hour and could'nt believe the specs for what I wanted. I also was going down the joystick input thing but then remembered the frustration with the old sim of not being very suitable to easily add some other in/outs functions, so hence the 8055, but there are heaps of ways to skin a cat !! So everyone for their own. Keep us up to date with progress can ya. ??

Ok see ya guys and have fun.
Jim NZ

[Dutchboy]

I was able to put the KT5198a in an enclosure and wire it up this past weekend. Overall, I think it will work well. I have yet to test it, but I want to double check connections before I connect the power.

As a bonus, I also decided on a single seat cockpit design. I started cutting the parts for my panel this weekend as well.

http://www.simulatormotion.com/gallery/update-1/bin/images/small/IMG_5758.jpg

http://www.simulatormotion.com/gallery/update-1/bin/images/small/Simulator_1_5765.jpg

More pictures here:
http://www.simulatormotion.com


Dutchboy

[Jim NZ]

Dutchboy,
It looks like you have used a heatsink with no electrical insulation between all the tabs, if this is the case, then, DONT power up the KT5198 ,,, with the heat sink going across all the tab's like you have, you will blow it up. !!! They need to be insulated (electrically) between the "unlike" tabs.
Hope I'm not right here ???
Jim

[Dutchboy]

Really? In all the computer power supplies I have taken apart they share a common heat sync. I'll look into this further, thanks for the warning. I don't want to kill it before I even get a motor going!

Dutchboy

[Dutchboy]

Ok, after looking at the circuit I think Jim is right. The heat sync must NOT span and touch all the tabs without electrical insulation. I have removed my heat sync for now until I can pick up either some insulation or individual heat syncs.

Thank you Jim for pointing this out before I fried some transistors.

After I removed the heat sync, I tried controlling my motors via the serial cable and C# and it worked flawlessly. I'm now adjusting my code to provide feedback via the potentometers and change the movement and accelleration to suit. Wish me luck!

Dutchboy

[kranky]

Wow, very cool stuff. Keep us posted. Those tiny motors are gonna work for you? Do you have any illustrations of the end result? or what you'll hope it to be?

[Dutchboy]

The motors in the pictures are wiper motors I picked up for $12 CAD each a few years ago. These will be for testing only. I'm still unsure of what motors I'm going to go with. Any recommendations?

I don't have any illustrations of what I will be creating, but I do have a vague picture of it in my mind ;)

Perhaps I'll dive into Solidworks and plan something out.

[Dutchboy]

I don't normally give props to companies, but I have to say that Qkits has been fantastic! After first receiving my board within a couple of days from ordering, I then sent them an email asking for example source code for the board. They responded within 5 hours saying they were having trouble finding it and then a few hours later sent me the code via email. I have to say that I am really impressed with the service and the fact that two different people helped me with my problem. Kudo's to them. It's hard to find good companies to get this "stuff" from in Canada.

<END_GLOWING_REVIEW>
I basically used the code to test to see if I could move the motors via my PC. I then converted some of the code into C# for use in my SimConnect application. Fun stuff this hobby.

Dutchboy

[kranky]

Not sure on the motors. I was looking into using some industrial sized motors for my 3 DOF i want to build. But I'm leaning more towards pneumatic now that I realize that I can run it off a normal shop compressor. I was worried about it running all the time and being loud, but I don't think it's gonna be too bad. Not to mention, the cylinders are way more affordable and able to withstand the loads i'll have.

My problem now is understanding the control of it. It's a slow process, but I'm pecking away at it.

[Dutchboy]

Hi Kranky,

I thought about pneumatic, and I just don't like the noise. I ran my CNC machine with a die grinder for awhile and the air compressor drove me nuts. Now I have a 2.25 HP router on there and it's as quiet as a mouse compared to what it was before. Also, the switches to control the air flow are quite expensive, so I'm not sure you will be saving much.

A guy tried to make a 6DOF with pneumatics once and said it didn't work out for some reason. http://www.cadsoftusa.com/~kls/fltsim/

Perhaps he just gave up, I'm not sure.

I think I'll keep it simple with a 2DOF platform for now, and then move up to the 3DOF and 3-phase motors later on. Something like this:
YouTube - Cal Poly Flight Motion Sim In-Action or YouTube - Cal-Poly RV-7 Motion Simulator - InMotion Simulation

Regardless, I wish you luck in your pursuit. Either way, it's fun to tinker with the melding of man and machine.

Dutchboy



Not sure on the motors. I was looking into using some industrial sized motors for my 3 DOF i want to build. But I'm leaning more towards pneumatic now that I realize that I can run it off a normal shop compressor. I was worried about it running all the time and being loud, but I don't think it's gonna be too bad. Not to mention, the cylinders are way more affordable and able to withstand the loads i'll have.

My problem now is understanding the control of it. It's a slow process, but I'm pecking away at it.

[kranky]

Fortunately for me it's not my money. :D

But that too means I won't own it when it's done, but that's OK, i'll still be able to use it. My school is paying for it, and I have around $5000 for just the motion platform.

Do you remember the vendor you got the switches to control the air flow from?

[Dutchboy]

I actually saw the switches at Princess Auto, which is a surplus retailer. They were around $200 for a single switch valve! I'm sure you could probably find them on ebay for cheaper than that, but I thought I should warn you about it!

That's a lot of money to build a motion platform! If I had that kind of cash, I would probably go the 3-phase motor platform similar to the one in those videos I posted.

Then you have all the power and then some for a 3-DOF system.

That's my 2 cents for what it's worth.

Good luck!

Dutchboy

[Dutchboy]

It occured to me that I jumped into this project and have been so overcome with wanderlust that I forgot to say thanks to Jim for being a big inspiration to me and I'm sure a lot of other people on the forum.

Please keep it up Jim. Your research and advice is definitely appreciated by everyone here!


Dutchboy




I've been pretty quite the last few months as "bloody old Erich" and myself have been working on a plan to cater for cheap and easy motion for FSX. ... Well we found it !!!
The concept is so simple and easy, it makes my original FS9 unit look super complicated.
Take a look at the specs of the KT5198 ... It can be feed with DAC, RC or serial . Little ripper we thought. Now to just have inputs from the position pots and a few more outputs/inputs for "other things" ,, well, what better board than the K8055, a card that a lot of people will already have.
Both of the above cards are cheap and can be purchased as a kit or already built up. (From different outlets)

We have tossed together a "plan" on...

http://www.jimspage.co.nz/plan.htm

I am doing my own software and its getting near the "beta testing" stage, but I put forward a challenge to the software guru's out there to also make something to suit. We tend to think this "hardware" line up is so stupidly simple and easy, it will be around for quite some time and be a basis of simmers getting into cheap motion ,, and to have different "takes" on the software to drive it would be an added bonus. !!!

Happy pondering ... Jim NZ (With a shove from "Bloody old Erich" :) :) )

[Jim NZ]

Thanks for your kind words Dutchboy .. It's comments like that that keep people going on what they are doing and it is always nice to get feedback about one's efforts, no matter what it is .

Over the years I've had heaps of enjoyment out of other people's input (scenery, planes etc) and now I'm really happy to have something to give back.

Watch out though ... this motion thing can (and has) end up an obsession !!!!
Stay tuned ... it aint over yet !!! :) :)

Thanks again ... Jim
P.S. My website is very near it bandwidth limit, so may be off the air until the first of next month. :( :(

[RobiD]

Hi Jim,

Great work that your doing.

Here is where I'm at, I have built a 2DOF sim based on the old Simcraft model. I was going to use the vacuum setup as suggested. I even built the digital valves and actuators.

I came accross Thanos site detailing his Joyrider powered by wiper motors. Great idea. This will make motion happen quicker. Then I came across your site and your Plan.

I won a K8055 kit on ebay for $40.00AUD inc postage so I am going to go down your road.

I will obtain the KT5198 kit and then the big question..... where to I go from there.

You said you were beta testing your program. How is it going. Im not a programmer, but I am happy to help in any way I can.

David

[RobiD]

Jim,

Any closer to JimComm being completed?

David

[Jim NZ]

Hi guys,

I have just uploaded to my site, the start of my "software" page.

On it there is source code and wee programs that would suit people that are conversant with VB6 (Visual basic 6 ) to make their own programs to suit whatever they need.

There is also a program to extract the general motion data out of FSX and shoot that data out of a serial port so they can develop anything they want from there, in a programming language of their choice, on the "other" computer.

The data is extracted at framerate speed.
There appears to be no framerate hit.

As the name jimcom was in use elsewhere, I have used Link2fs as the name of a "group" of programs I am developing.

All my work is freeware and you can do what you like with it.

Enjoy !!

Jim

[kranky]

Hey, thanks a lot for this Jim. I will be checking this out. Looks really good though. Thanks for sharing.

[Roland]

That's a neat looking utility Jim!
Nice and flexible, and your use of VB makes it tweakable for some the less software capable like myself. (I still run my platform off the lines of GWbasic you provided!)
Christmas (or the dutch version, Sint Nicolaas) is coming near , so maybe it's time I upgraded to FSX....

[darrenkarp]

What I'd love is a program that can take serial data from a PIXACE chip and push it into FSX so I can build my own MCP. I'm not a programmer so would struggle writing the VB code.

Any clues?

[RobiD]

Great work Jim. I am looking forward to the release of your Link2fsmotion software.

I have my Velleman card assembled, I have my wiper motors and just about the order my KT-5198.

Just a thought, is there anyway to put the mosfets of the KT-5198 on a seperate board that has beefed up tracks rather that beefing up the KT board itself (sort of protection for the board)?

David

[kjg71]

RobiD,

was reading your post. just an idea...... as I do not have a KT-5198, but is there enough room for header or screw terminals where the mosfets are or off those spots with wire?...and then use decent gauge wire to the other board with (terminals)then that board would have beefed up tracks? Not sure the amperage that the terminal blocks max out at?......but maybe it would be ok

just an idea to throw in. Probably would not look very clean :)...but if it helps.

Kyle

[RobiD]

That's the type of mod I was thinking about Kyle.

Would like Jims input on this (when you can).